I think a PhD degree is painful worldwide: Why its should be ?
Generally the senior teachers /scholars are the guides for PhD. But most of them are not willing to help their fellow to achieve the degree, which is really a painful stanza !
It is a joyful process with all its tiresome hard work
Marwah Firas Abdullah Al-Rawe ,
Its really glad hearing from your side as like a poetic emotional expression but so far i met with the people none said its a pleasuring moment rather a horrific and terrific experiences especially in the subcontinent. Do you know where a PhD degree is hardest to gain? Very surprising and simple answer in Bangladesh !!
Thanks
For me as a phd candidate it was pleasure. I enjoyed in writting and researching... I think this was also great experience for my menthor because I was here last candidate before retirement.
It was really great experience.
I think the experiences would vary as the culture is not the same in academic departments around the world. In some instances, students come into the programme not fully prepared and their identify needs for undertaking or completing the PhD are not done, so they struggle thru the process even with the many revisions to their drafts from their advisory committee. Some even expect the lead supervisor to tell them step-by-step what to do, so the task just becomes a writing up process. Indeed, it is really a joy when you get a candidate who can hit the ground running, but from my 7-year experience in academia, such happenings are the exceptions not the norm. Here's some research I did and published to assist graduate students with the lags in meeting their submission deadlines that might shed further light on the issue:
Presentation The Early Career Faculty Networking Event: Research e-Clinics Review
Chapter Research e-Clinics: Reducing Lags in the Completion of Gradu...
Best,
Debra
When your undergrads ask constantly, "Is this going to be on the exam?"
Must be positive. The situation is difficult and provocative as we disagree, but in the negative it is impossible to go beyond this problem. Try to learn that you trust yourself. And accept the idea that you always need learn something new, and you can learn . Do not run away from suffering, laugh at it!
The decisive factor for a doctorate is the amount of research that has been carried out. However, it is difficult for the individual faculties to acquire them.
There are different kinds of help. However, each candidate must demonstrate the originality of his thoughts independently.
No one can help him.
One problem is that research in the humanities is essentially different from research in the sciences. When a scientist takes on a grad student, that student generally contributes to the scientist's own research, and the scientist can expect to get several publications from the supervised research. In the humanities, by and large (there are of course exceptions), the work supervised is not directly part of the supervisor's research and is an extra load (metaphorically a "pain") for the supervisor. Also, coauthorship is fairly rare in the humanities, especially in my discipline of philosophy, which is critical at heart. Moreover, in the humanities professors tend not to have large research grants that can be used to offset the extra load and departments don't have the resources to do so either. It is a wonder that so many humanities professors are nonetheless still willing to take on the extra work out of a general love of the discipline and out of a sense of duty.
Karl Pfeifer
I can fully confirm Karl Pfeifer's statements for German universities. In the human sciences, a dissertation involves a great deal of research effort spanning several years. At the medical faculties, the doctorate is practically part of the degree - although it does not necessarily have to be acquired in order to practice. This means that the time required for a medical doctoral thesis is usually shorter than for a doctoral thesis in philosophy, history or theology.
It just depends upon the understanding level of both.. & student should b a scholar in true means.
I do not think it is painful, as it scales to reach the top academic, the obstacles are more difficult to pass, but not impossible, the doctorate is a research work of much dedication, only that
It makes me very strange to think that having a PhD is painful for the teacher who probably already has that degree and the student who aspires to have it.
The academic path is difficult and not for everyone, vocation of service and support is required both in the self-realization and in the development of those who are in our charge as students. Therefore, it is our responsibility to help them obtain the degrees they wish, from a bachelor's degree, through a master's degree to a doctorate.
We as teachers are the present and the counselors, coordinators and facilitators of learning. They are future students, who will be our relay and new academics and teachers.
It is not painful, when our goal and interest collide each other. But, due to the lack of 3Rs (Resource, Research and Reliability), it sounds painful.
Lack of dedication on the part of both parties often make the PhD painful.
If your objectives or aims are clear and ready to dedication then Ph.D. is no painful.
Ph D was called as "Pagal ho ke douro" by the students. It means, you have to run behiend many things like a mad to get your Ph D.
I donot know whether it is correct only in India or correct in many other/ all other countries of the world !
Thanks.
It depends on the quality of stuff the supervisor and supervisees are made of
Ph.D. is a means to an end and not the end itself. The degree of Ph.D. is completely different from the bachelor's and master's degrees. It is different in everything. The focus is on scientific research from the very first day. In the bachelor's and master's degrees, you get the knowledge, but in the doctorate, you are required to add knowledge. Many academics view the doctorate as a license to engage in academic and research work, so the traditional view tends to be that degree should only be obtained by those who have an association with academic work or research or want to engage in it. At this point there is a sharp intersection between the student and the supervisor, as the state of refusal by the supervisor begins to ignore the student, or the state of scientific selfishness between the two parties, or the state of vanity that affects some Ph.D. students, or the state of professional scientific competition between both parties.
Until the Ph.D student and his/her mentor get along well and have the same opinion on how the Ph.D research should happen, it is a happy experience for both. However, if the two have different opinions on how to do things, it surely would be a painful experience.
Md Zafar Alam Bhuiyan
A very realistic discussion has been started by you. I think, it depends on the ability, determination, patience of the students and mentors and most importantly collaboration between the two. It may give rise to a situation like "Patiently hoping for a Degree", "Permanent head Damage", "Proudly half Dead" for the students sometimes and "Please have your Degree" to the mentors often.
Thanks.
Md Zafar Alam Bhuiyan Pankaj Tomar
Thank you for contributions; I agree absolutely, it is important to reach also a more humorous level of the question; thanks!
As it is so often, it depends. True enough, achieving a PhD can be a painful process and your supervisor might not be as involved as you'd like him to, but after all the PhD is your achievement and it is on you to be dedicated, to do the research and write the report and succeed in the final exam. Whats in it for your supervisor? His job is to meet up with you, give you advise, help you reflect on your studies and discuss your results. What else is there? What else do you expect?
Some might be more involved, suggest archives, hand over data and material, suggest publishers for your dissertation and whatnot, but still research and report is your responsibility, as is the choice of supervisor. If there is a supervisor that is bad with students, prefers writing his own essays as to compared to teaching or giving advise, why did you choose him for a supervisor?
Lest not forget: in the end of the day you will be rated by exam and dissertation and you will be rated by your performance. It is your performance that counts and you should have done the work on your own. You actually add a signed document to your thesis, confirming that you did the research on your own, nobody helped you with it, you have written up the results all by yourself too and no third party has been involved and all data either stems from your own research or has properly been quoted accordingly.
So again: what do you expect?
A PhD degree is like a dream came true. One should endure what happens during the process of getting it to feel victorious afterwards
A very important question is Dr. Mohamed ... The doctorate is not the end of the scientific research .. The fair professor should evaluate the thesis not the people because it reflects the achievement and the goal of a researcher within years ...
Greetings
C. Lewis Kausel ,
Yes, PhD is not everybody but essential in some cases for teachers and researchers . Dear Professor , pls see here answers of our colleagues, fellow researchers who have their PhD and who don't. My assumptions and answer is clear . The researchers who are in the enrollment of their PhD, are in pain and have shred their painful discomfort and the others with PhD are giving the positive motivations! for more :
https://www.quora.com/Is-doing-PhD-painful
I am sorry...I don't think so...For both student and guide, It is really a journey of gaining the knowledge.
Doing PhD is not painful to a student when he really want to peruse it. It is his will and wish which makes him take PhD ON CHOSEN TOPIC OF HIS INTEREST.
Then why pain? Similarly A guide himself selects his candidate, based on his merits, for research then why he will deny helping the student.
It is in fact a proud thing to say that so many PhD students I have guided.
I disagree with the statement. Ph.D. is a step towards understanding and dissemination and coming out with new knowledge. If you feel it is painful then you must never pursue. You can do it only only if you enjoy research.
Jeevan Jyoti,
Thanks for the answer. I am sorry to say that you have earned the degree without pain or with pain , now you are other side of us, who are on the unauthorized hardship of the PhD guides( as nuisance is the nature of one type of people, including educators worldwide). So you are suggesting like that. But read the answers of the people above who are on the way of the achievement for the same !
As a PhD is an essential for teaching and research , we must go to you senior teachers , I think that doesn't mean you will treat us for a kept. It may be you are not doing this but others are doing. Pursuing PhD is very difficult in Bangladesh, even harder that USA or other countries.
Regards
In my opinion. The concept of "PhD" is already outdated and does not correspond to the concept of "good scientist" We know a lot of fake scientists with the title of "PhD", who received this degree thanks to cronyism, personal or family ties, and so on and so forth. Sometimes it seems to me that it would be much better for science to abolish the degree of "PhD" altogether, since this degree does not provide a real contribution to science, and at best demonstrates a qualification level and nothing more. Now I want to give examples. Please answer me the following questions:
1. Which doctor will you choose for treatment: Who has a good treatment statistics or who has a PhD degree? I would choose the first doctor with good statiistikoy.
2. Which singer do you prefer to listen to more: Who sings well or who has a PhD degree? I would choose the first singer.
3. Which lecturer do you prefer to listen to more: Who reads the lecture in an accessible and understandable manner or who has a PhD degree? I would choose the first lecturer.
In other words, in ordinary life, we are not at all interested in the degree of a scientist when it is connected with the quality of his work for you personally. And nevertheless, in scientific institutes this gradation matters. I just want to ask - Why? Why is the level of qualification not closely associated with the quality of work? In my opinion, the answer is very simple - because science has degraded because of such fake scientists who are very comfortable to live and not answer for anything. If these fake scientists would be responsible for their quality, then they would simply be banished, but this does not happen. That is why there is so much rubbish in science, for which PhD is a good advertisement and nothing more.
Brief resume: the time has come when weu need to revise the concept of PhD.
Well, Gennady Fedulov has made his point. I, however, dare to disagree.
I admit: that is an issue, but where is the point to banish all PhD because of that? You'd basically punish all those hard working scientists and teachers at academia, if you claim: "All PhD are useless! All holders of a PhD are lazy bastards!" They are not supposed to be. Working on a PhD is hard work, quite demanding and takes it's toll. Anyhow, having a PhD does not illustrate more than your abilities beyond a Diploma or M.A. and qualifies for academia. You might still be a terrible person to work with and even though you succeeded in working your PhD topic, you might perform bad in other projects, but that happens with people who did their Diploma and went to the industry too.
This is a matter of ethics in science, but also of human nature. Yes, it happens, and it happens too often that it is painful.
We here agree that it shouldn't be painful to the mentor, don't you?
Dear professor Joanna Gocłowska-Bolek ,
Thanks for your kind honesty supporting me hear. Lots of friends are facing this problem home and abroad. I don't know much about other countries but doing PhD from Bangladesh is most difficult. my very close friend's topic has been changed for the third time!!! Could a professor or a PhD guide can do this ? is it ethical by him? Only the student(my friend) is responsible for his PhD failure ????
Simply this also a big failure to cut seven years from the life of my friend !!!
Thanks
Yes it is happened that the PhD degree is painful to a student and his mentor.
Professor Dr C. Lewis Kausel,
Its ok dear friend. No mis reading you or anybody. Difference may be happens in the view and its normal. sorry if I hurt you.
Thanks
you r completely right. a painful task for candidates and mentors requiring great modifications.
It's a journey of in-depth knowledge that PhD candidates seek. It is natural to have moments of sadness/sorrow and happiness during this enjoyable period, I believe.
I would suggest that we, as senior PhD holders, should not have this view or keep it in mind regardless of some individuals' cases. It's better to encourage our students and be so cooperative with them.
Surely, our PhD students are our future colleagues and might be our bosses. With your good academic cooperation and collaboration with them, they will keep looking up to you as their teachers and parents, whatever higher positions they might have.
Dear Md Zafar Alam Bhuiyan ...
PhD degree is not painful to a student or his mentor, its very interesting and pleasant as I see.
Good luck.
Dear @Liqaa Habeb,
I suppose you are lacking the imagination of painful dissertation. Let me help you:
Pain on the student:
Pain on supervisor:
None of these cases were made up, they are all cases I know of. I either know the supervisor or the student. I personally believe all those incidents might have been prevented right from the start if people were choosing their supervisor more wisely and if teachers would stop encouraging students to do a thesis even though they know they are unfit for the task. After all, writing a PhD thesis is quite demanding. They do not help by setting up students with a dissertation, that would be better off without that experience. Its not for everyone.
All the best,
St.
Stephan Glienke ,
Exactly I was saying as like you . Thanks for supporting me. People are here, who have PhD already are in the advising panel as they already have cross the river !
Thanks
Dear @Stephan Glienke
I understand all what you mentioned and here in my country we passed more difficult circumstances than you explained but still study in the PhD level or writing a dissertation something differ. You will not learn anything without the flavor of desperation. If you like your specialization, you will not describe the process by painful. It needs patience. Hope you all the best.
Liqaa
We all, including our PhD students, have to be always optimistic about the future. There are times when people may feel depressed and less enthusiastic, but we should tell them to be optimistic even if their work needs a lot of modifications . We shouldn't underestimate the abilities of our students. The future is theirs as they are counting up despite moments of pain. Supervisors have to be encouraging for the PhD students and shouldn't let them down.
Doing PhD is not that easy nor difficult. It requires lot of determination and mental stability. Its not just the Guide who matters ( may be in some cases Yes), But it equally applies to student. PhD is something we learn in depth about the topic we have chosen and the outcomes we expect many not be the same.
Everyone life's has ups and downs, similarly its with PhD at every stage /step we may find some difficulty and speed breakers, overcoming this together hand in hand by guide as well student gives a fruitful result. And we know one fine day we are going to complete, that keep us going on
To me, it is a challenging quest for more understanding, knowledge and needed expertise in ones area of specialization. In an enabling environment and cooperation of the members of the supervisory team. It will really make the research faster if the student is a serious one.
Ph.D. students should study extra subjects which relate to his research work
Is a PhD degree is painful to a student and his mentor ? Why and Why not?
Pursuing a PhD is a lonely journey that sometimes can be painful experience if you don't have the right research topic, right competency, support of supervisor, support of peers or lacking of passion, perseverance, discipline etc.
Re your following:
"Generally senior teachers /scholars are the guide for PhD but most of them are not willing to help their fellow to achieve the degree, which is really a painful stanza !"
I would like to comment based on my personal observation that ceteris paribus - generally supervisor / supervisee in some of the Asian cultures perceive attaining a PhD is the end / top of knowledge pursuit hierarchy (that's why some supervisors / professors purposely making getting a PhD is tall order / daunting task for PhD students). Whereas supervisor / supervisee in many western countries perceive attaining a PhD is just a beginner "license" to pursue further knowledge / research in which when you meet their minimal requirement you can obtain your PhD. Not sure pursuing a PhD in overseas / western countries can be a good idea / solution to address this issue?
Han Ping Fung ,
I am not clear about your answer, pls would you mind to explain more?
Thanks
I really enjoyed my doctoral program, and I enjoy mentoring graduate students. Not at all painful for me.
Micheal W Marek,
You the genius and WE appreciate your mentoring
Enjoyed my doctoral program with mentor and complete the work within time schedule because my guide is very friendly. I learn lot of ideas from guide and try to use that's thing with my students.
Dear Professor Noori Abdul-nabi Nasi PhD,
Yes its hard and the professors and the people who have crossed the river of PhD are making harder so that other may not cross it. I think its the duty of the mentors to make and think and say ''PhD is easy by a good mentoring !
Thanks
Professor Dr Barbara Sawicka ,
Yes dear madam, patience is most required here . By the other side cooperations of the mentor(s) is essential .
Thanks
I greatly enjoyed the process of getting my PhD. I had a strict, but supportive, advisor whom I now consider a close friend and the other members of my committee were also wonderful. I don't think a PhD is ever "easy." It is something of a marathon, but grad students should be aware of the fact that they enjoy several years of having to do little beyond focusing on learning. In my experience, many grad students spent a great deal of time sitting around complaining about things: faculty, funding, other grad students. I always thought that actually was what made things difficult and I tried to avoid that. I am now a couple of decades removed from my PhD days, but I still see similar things among grad students today. The PhD is a time to put one's head down, work hard, and learn as much as possible. It should be fun and enjoyable. Certainly, one's advisor makes a difference and I was fortunate, but regardless of how supportive the advisor is, it is the responsibility of the student to take advantage of the resources made available during the PhD.
John Traphagan
Yes, Thats right Strict but a supportive mentor is the fact for a PhD which is very rare.
Thanks
I really enjoyed my PhD with my two mentors and colleagues. Some times it can be messy but what matters is how you respond
Ernest Abaho ,
Yes, it sounds nice that you have achieved PhD comfortably by your hard working and supporting your mentors. Bangladesh is the country you cannot go for PhD easily as there are huge barriers. I think it is the most difficult place in the world for higher degrees.
Thanks
Dear Shibabrata Pattanayak,John Traphagan ,
Pls read the link a case study of India where PhD is a pain and failure:
https://www.moneylife.in/article/doing-phd-in-india-think-thrice/52923.html
Noori Abdul-nabi Nasir ,
Yes experiences are the key requirements with education and related knowledge.
Thanks
Noori Abdul-nabi Nas ,
Yes, Definitely we know this . You don't know this sir?
Thanks
Professor Dr Shaheen Ahmed Sir,
Yes Sir, You know as you have realized on your journey. So far I know you are a real gentleman I have got in BOU in my study . Still I thrill the pain the people gave me in my MBA education, especially the Mr Noman and his team from Controller office. I was supposed to apply for the legal actions, didnt only for my favorite teacher Professor Dr Galib sir. I hope your comfortable journey and a shining career.
Thanks you dear sir. Pls pray for me.
PhD. require time and hard work to complete the research work
Doctoral studies are difficult and uncertain, mostly for candidates. If the candidate is good, mentor work is pleased with him.
In society, there is a strange look to PhD as a certain level in education, or additional sertificate for career. In fact, PhD is proof of a person’s ability (with knowledge — it turns out at exams, earlier) to work independently in science. Historically, this comes from the medieval Corporation, when a pupil, in order to prove his claims for independent work, should have presented his “chef-d'oeuvre” to the commission of Masters (Guild). Now, unfortunately, this procedure has degenerated, very often it is the “dissertation factory”, when the applicant simply helps to supervisor in his work (only by his “hands”, not his “head”), and then, in the “award” he gets the title he is looking for. In addition, this is not the worst option from the existing ones.
In fact, PhD - is the acceptance of a person as equal by recognized Masters. Naturally, any admission requires own effort from a person. To consider this as “painful” is already an emotional attitude. Somebody may rate this as "passionate" or "charming." If it is so "painful", may be you don't need?
Pictures and online-links may be give some information or fun, but they are no precisely formulated arguments for discussion. Therefore they have much limited siginificance in a controversial debate
We should not set up a Ph.D.,.Research can be done without a degree,why should we set up a Ph.D.,to let people get it?distraction,but limited energy.
Hein Retter ,
Yes Sir, this may be fun or fabrication but Phd is a great pain you see at least 50 researcher are here admitted that they are in pain. One of my close friend couldn't complete his PhD as his mentor has changed due to his(mentor) retirement ! His topic has changed for 3 times and 9 years has gone! I have seen the pain personally though my friend is very sincere. One of my colleagues has returned from your country failing complete her PhD due to barrier of language. Yes, many of my students have completed their PhD from many country successfully . As I am a senior teacher here I have many examples from home and abroad failing PhD of my students, friends, colleagues. I have very personal bitter experiences regarding my one.
I am very happy getting you sir here for inspirations.
Regards Sir.
Duan Xian Xiang ,
Not only research , for a good teaching profession PhD is a must. Yes , there are great professors without PhD but it varies respective faculties though obtaining PhD from some countries are still controversial. On the other hand, in research there are some values when its is done by a PhD obtained scholar.
Thanks
I want to share one of my observations. Many famous composers such as Beethoven and Chopin composed their masterpieces more than 200 years ago, and at that time there was no PhD. However, in our time, institutes have been created to study their work, in which hundreds of PhD theses are defended. So, what we see in reality. Some people (Beethoven and Chopin) create values, but other people (hundreds and thousands of present PhDs) study these values. I want to ask: is a PhD dissertation a material value? In my opinion - no, PhD dissertation expresses at best only the level of qualification. Well, let's imagine a hypothetical country where all residents are PhDs, but no one has created any values. I want to ask: Who needs these PhDs? Well, let us imagine that you are a smart person with a PhD degree. I want to ask: And then what? I would answer this way: Yes, you are a smart person, but what is your benefit for all of us except that you are just a smart person? The answer would be: No good. If this is so, then the PhD degree is a myth, for which there is nothing but recognition ambitions, which are often fictitious, which is used by fraudsters with fake dissertations, in which there is a lot of plagiarism and other abominations. My suggestion is to remove the concept of PhD as a relic of the past. However, what do I suggest in return? Here I duplicate my answer from the discussion https://www.researchgate.net/post/What_is_your_idea_about_the_plagiarism
"I am surprised that everyone condemns plagiarism, as if this is the only eternal evil like corruption and prostitution. There is a medical phrase “You are trying to cure a disease, but you need to treat a patient.” You forget that in our time of Total Globalization, society is very painful and continues to deteriorate due to the degradation of the education system. That is why there is a temptation to an easy life like corruption, prostitution and plagiarism. However, is it possible to deal with these disgusting phenomena. In my opinion, it is possible and necessary. How? My proposal in the area of plagiarism may sound very naive, but I will try. It is necessary to cancel the title of PhD. Then the need to publish fake articles will simply disappear and plagiarism will disappear, since a scientific article will cease to bring dividends for a career. However, what can be presented as a substitute for an article so as not to throw out the baby with water. It could be a development as a complete intellectual product that has properties to be bought and sold on the market. For example, instead of writing a scientific article, you can submit a program that can solve certain problems for users. If this program is useful to people, it will be well bought by these people. Everything is very simple. Here, plagiarism is simply not possible by definition. My proposal is that the title of PhD should be given not for writing scientific articles, but for completed developments, the presentation of which includes the paper as a scientific description of this development. Moreover, the status of this title must be greatly raised. In my opinion, this is one of the real ways to combat plagiarism".
There is a good joke that can be used here: When a student comes home after a test, his parents ask him how he was in the exam? He says, "Like in the church!" Why are they wondering ... So when the professor asked me something, "I was baptized!", when I answered him, "he was baptized!"
Good question
In a real context can be a wonderful or an negative relation. It depends of many factor like the sociocultural context, personal issues, institutional rules and the subjective part berween the mentor and student.
Completion of the research that results in a doctorate is indeed something to celebrate! I agree with those who have stated that the role of the supervisor is critical and can make the experience either a joy or utter pain. That being said, it is helpful to consider the purpose of earning a doctorate. It is also important to consider what the doctorate represents. If all one desires or requires is to master a body of knowledge and/or demonstrate competence in one's profession, then an argument can be made that a Masters degree is sufficient. However, if one desires to somehow advance one's field through experimentation, philosophical reflection, field work, etc., then it is important to demonstrate not just knowledge but also the disciplined use of the requisite skills to make this happen. In many cases it is the acquisition of these skills - intellectual and performative - that can be stretching.
It should not be, because respected universities have laws and regulations governing this.
Laura Wepler,
THE MENTOR SHOULD BE conscious about his responsibility and remind always its a sacred job by him.
Departmental facilities and faculty support will reduce ph..D. students difficulties