My dear contributors, Big Brother is following the discussion!

Many fine contributions that deserve good answers!

@Vasile, good contribution - discurs Godfrey Bloom on taxes and thieves, ..., bureaucracy!

No, my situation is different

Dear Ljubomir, the governments do not prohibit employment in the public sector, they are just strangling private sector in order to fix the macro-economical indices of each country. They don't care if you can live after increasing the taxes (here largest tax is 42%, so you have road for tax-increases, after entering EU and after your first economic collapse, about 10 years from now...) but they care about:

1)higher offices salaries not to be changed

2)to continue to belong at set#1)

If you can find a private university with really high standards which can offer a long term contract to you, just go away from public university.

Unfortunately here in Greece we have not private universities...

I'm not familiar with the Serbian situation, so I can only comment historically - Every time a government has made it difficult for Researchers to do their work, be it through mandatory retirement age (France, e.g. Claude Allègre who emigrated to the US rather than retire), constrained budgets (Thomas Südhof et al.) or any other hardships, this has led to brain drain.

If a biased minority is educated in a biased research/education environment, there will be no significant impact at the whole population level, for instance because the educated people with biased visions will not be understood by the citizens in general

At the beginning of this year, our govt outlined 11 ways to reduce expenses. My neighbor who is also a full professor told me that her entertainment allowance was reduced by 10 %. For myself, I used to get an allowance for teaching science in English; and this is now removed.

Further more, in our college, we have had a meeting and discussed on saving electricity and water. Actually, we have holidays till Friday, but I got back to do my marking and research; so I didn't turn on the aircond. (At least, we are not heavily taxed. )

I believe that these sorry events in Serbia are aberations, live will correct them.

Dear Ljubomir, in Italy it is the same. Now the turnover rate of professors is very low, only 20% who retire can be replaced. Young people have no outlets in the university and research languishes. Teaching the same. The government is forcing an austerity with incredible rigidity because of the German economic sphere, without thinking that, out of the economic crisis that surrounds us, you should instead aim precisely on R & D. Now came the results of the national qualifications for full and associate professors who have created a lot of confusion anyway. The criteria are only three (the number of ISI publications, number of citations and H index), Candidates do not show up for an exam, you do not know who they are, they just send their CV, you no longer have to assess the "person ", now even a computer could do the same. It is since ten years that we are not renewing the contract of employment and we have almost the same salary. Taxes are killing us and we can not escape even if we would like to because they are deducted at source. Is this the university that we want in Europe?

Lithuania is of no good, either. Will gather thougts and write later - as for a moment, I only can say, that your "bad" can be much better, than uor "good".

As all of you know, if you penalize unbiased education you do not have a long-term visions and will penalize next generations. 'Occupy the people with games and keep them stupid' has been a political strategy from a couple of thousands of years ago.........

Well, that is a bit of an anti Nikola Tesla move. My wife had some Chemistry doctoral students from Serbia here in South Africa, and she was very impressed with how hard working and academically inclined they were. If your government influences education adversely, on the long term, all of the people of Serbia will suffer. State universities should be supported adequately and appropriately, one does not undermine the well-being of your country's knowledge base, that is surely a recipe for economic (and other) disasters.

It seems that state universities in Serbia were mostly linked to research through scientific projects granted by Ministry of Science and Technological Development....perhaps this ministry needs to have a review of what the country will end up with if government cannot play a role in high level guidance of research themes which addresses national priorities.

Dear Ljubomir

In Brazil the situation is similar. The salaries of university professors are small, and the allocations by the Government for public universities have been progressively smaller, with serious consequences such as deterioration of education and migration of teachers to private universities which besides offering a better salary has more resources to projects research. The teachers are retiring early in the public universities

Whenever there is a fiscal crisis social sectors are the first to suffer. This is the case in most of the countries.

Really it is a a big question for developing countries. During early period of independence, my country invested huge amount in higher education and number of scientists went abroad t develop expertise or obtain a PhD but, most of them did not return due to difficult conditions in India and higher salaries there. However, homegrown scientists and scholars took the burden of teaching new generation. New generation being experts in engineering, medicine, computers and software again migrated in other countries due to high wage gap and also lured by lifestyle there. Present government tried hard to win-back its scholars and scientists promising them much higher salaries to compensate their loss in comparison resident national teachers without avail. As a consequence, retirement age of university teachers has been enhanced twice so that trained and experienced teachers could work as the backbone of the educational system.

Nation building is a difficult task. It is natural, that in the process many will suffer. It is responsibility of well-educated persons that they set an example working at low salaries to teach in public universities so that majority of students who can support public university education be educated by expert and good teachers. In a few years this phase will be over, economic crisis only be averted by creating human capital of high quality through widespread education and training. A phase of prosperity will start perhaps resulting in manifold increase salaries. It is true generally people see their comfort and legitimately claim a respectful earning, but a teacher is always teacher, first to him should be teaching and participation in complex task of nation building.

It is not idealism, it is hard reality. If people want to live comfortably, they have to make place for others also. Otherwise, glaring differences between groups of people will result increased crime rates and turmoil and anarchy.

@Marcel et al., the priorities are all wrong. Money is going to sports and entertainment, while it should go to RnD, education. Young people will probably grow up, thinking entertainment is all important. But they should be developing their intellect, and Scientists should be given support.

Hello M,

I always say: teachers or professors are not islands. They also depend on the society in which they live, which includes a society that provides resources for teaching.

Dear Giovanni, I think that we have to re-think about the future of such an 'austerity lover' Europe. I don't know if it so due to Lutheran culture of Germany or because of the interests of the same country, but I know that:

1)in Greece 67% of youth people are unemployed

2)almost 40% of total people are also unemployed

So, if we (who are self stating to be intelligent beings) will continue the current passive behaviour, then I am not sure that the situation will be better automatically after time.

We have to emphasize the difference between fiscal policy and long term R & D needs for our countries.

Otherwise, we will just export talented scientists to fill the gaps that have been produced from a leisurely, indolent and lazy German youth, ie we will end up to be servant of Germany.

Of course our Serbians friends are waiting to enter EU now, so our discussion is a little early, but, Ljubomir, THIS is the main bet for your country now: NOT to be caught from German oriented EU. Live your life free from such a 'Europe', please!

Dear Demetris would you say something to those who are fighting to let Ukraina in the European community when 70% of their country is run by the Chinese? We really need to change as we have been paying so much for austerity without development.

C'est l'histoire de la fourmis (working hard) versus de la sauterelle (have a lot of fun)

Dear Giovanni, Ukraine is a more complicated case, I think, due to its strong interconnection with Russia. I have to apologize because I didn't know about the Chinese 70% percent, so I am surely not an expert about Ukrainian affairs! But, overall austerity will not make our lifes better in the long term, as the mainstream Economists argue today.

The number of highly - educated people migrating will be high inevitably.

It is a good question. if you penalize unbiased education then you do not have a long-term visions and will penalize next generations. 'Occupy the people with games and useless things and keep them stupid' has been a political strategy from a couple of years ago

A powerful economy creates powerful education and research. Give peanuts, you get peanuts!

It is A good question usually they deprive people from good things and give them useless games. they do not take care of people

ČLjubomir, so, if you look to Slovenia just few years ago - I was shocked to know their HIGH salaries (comparing to ours). Now situation has changed - and changed to the worst. A lot of good, really good scientists lost their jobs. It cannot be long, that scientists have good money from the state. Please choose what you like best - low stability or short term rises and falls.

Perhaps most of the countries do not allocate big money for the public sector in science. Outcome in the short term - brain draining, migration, anger and frustration. Outcome in the long term - loosing positions, concurrentability etc.

I also know, how it was in Ukraine just few years ago - if there is water, then no heating (and this is UNIVERSITY). In the same time, privete business was flowering.

What are my conclusions?

1. If you can have both positions, do not hesitate to get money from private sector

2. And keep teaching, with dignity, in the University.

Hello Marwan,

when different people get exactly the same amount of money, some will create more knowledge or more work than others..... That's what I would call 'science efficiency'. If you can do more with less, you must be very smart, or not?

Dear Marcel, yes, but some will work less than the average, take the money and not work at all. They get Marvans peanuts without giving anything. So we need a different kind of scientific currency, to cause our work and efforts.

Unfortunately, in Serbia today is "popular" maxim "Loyalty is power (to the Leader)" again, instead of "Scientia potentia est (Knowledge is power)". Therefore, my students (about 100) in final questionnaire with 95% said that they would leave Serbia, ASAP (as they finished studies).

By the time you will get evaporated with well educated and instructed scientists with the fatal consequences for your home country.

@Hanno, unfortunately you are absolutely right. The country without knowledge and ideas and democracy has no perspective.

@Ljubomir, I just remembered the german history and eg the emmigration of Einstein and others.

@Ljubomir Jerinic, the uncertain future is ahead of us! I am afraid that my daughters will go abroad! Sad story! My Serbia! :(

@Ljubomir Jacic and Hanno and the others: I forgot to say that the rest 5% of my student wants to work for POLITICAL PARTY. I work at the DEPARTMETNT OF MATHEMATICS and COMPUTER SCIENCE, and our "product" are teachers of mathematics, B.Sc. of Applied Mathematics, B.Sc. in Computer Science and B.Sc. in Information Technologies. I know that 95% of my students could find the job abroad and they are 95 best of 100. The rest are last five, and they will stay. That is the BIG problem for Serbia.

@Ljubomir Jacic, I am "lucky guy", my kids (daughter and two sons) works for the Holland and English company, and they are not with me, here in Serbia.

@Ahed, yes it just happens in Serbia these days

My daughter has done it already as she is married and living and working in London. My son will do the same in few months, perhaps, and I am keen to leave my Country too, along with Berlusconi, corruption and the 5 stars movement.

@Fabrizio You are wright. As far as I know, the problem in "decreasing" funds in education is all over the world, started with "Obama's Hawaii University", as well as in research and culture.

Dear All,

Scientists have been until now in most cases obedient servants of the power. Can we have a choice? If yes, what is it?

Dear Giovanni,

If the pattern is universal, you are not able to run away.

Dear Ljubomir (Jacić),

The Serbian government does not want to support education but they have money for a new statue of Gavrilo Princip http://inserbia.info/news/2014/01/a-monument-honoring-gavrilo-princip-to-be-built-in-belgrade/.

Dear Fabrizio,

I have found only the French version of this www.thrivemovement.com. For the majority it is not available.

Dear Andràs this could be a good link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEV5AFFcZ-s

uhmmmm... I believe that many aspects of the thrive movement are quite questionable, especially aliens.....for the rest is up to you to believe it or not.

Thanks, Giovanni. French version is better.

@András Yes, unfortunately, this is not only stupidity. Imagine the country that in youth culture center, the Editor in Chief introduces censorship of works of art! In the 21 century! Imagine a country where the Minister of Education and Science is doctor (MD), and the Minister of Telecommunications and Information Technologies is also a doctor (MD). Imagine a country where the Minister of Finance "save" budget with additional taxation teachers, researchers... In the 21 century!

That's why I said "in Serbia today is "popular" maxim "Loyalty is power (to the Leader)" again, instead of "Scientia potentia est (Knowledge is power)".

I am not a professor nor a student. I do not teach either. From reading historical books in the past, I learned that education serves the industry not other way around. When government wants to amass wealth, it will not put much effort to support education for the masses but instead it will do anything by any means necessary to assimilate money. I do not remember the references but I know that this problem existed since Ancient Sumerian times, when students ended up in those school like in a horse race or rat race for the ultimate award such as high position/ salary etc. It is already happened in U.S and Canada. I was a student myself and I always believed that education should be free and accessible to anyone who is inspired to do so. Since governments do not fully support it because it cannot afford or see a very little value in it. Usually collective economy is more important. The problem is not a government. I do not believe that government exist at all. It is just bunch or collections of groups with their own agendas bickering among themselves which is very unproductive. Instead of criticizing their methods it would be more practical to look around the world for a country that has a better eduction system or what ever it represents and implement necessary change from bottom up not from top to bottom. If you start from top, dealing with people at top level, you will end up like them. However, you are well aware that this 'system' is made of people and they are all mortals - they are not going to live forever, they will need to be replaced with younger generation to run this 'system'. And the only way to change this 'system' is to educate young generation that there can be a better way not just for some people but for everybody. Find that better way and show it to your own kids at home. It all starts from the family. My suggestion is to look at education system in Finland or Switzerland. I might be wrong or unless you guys, find a better one.

We have new period in Russia from 2012. Now State tries rebuild state universities after about 20 years of demolition politics.

My dear contributors, Big Brother is following the discussion!

Many fine contributions that deserve good answers!

@Vasile, good contribution - discurs Godfrey Bloom on taxes and thieves, ..., bureaucracy!

Dear Ljubomir Jacic Sir,

Yours assessment is quite true. In a country like India, it is happening quite often, particularly during the ongoing era of LPG (Liberalization, Privatization and Globalization). since 1991. It has become a problem called "Brain Drain" and the Government is trying to curtail it and accordingly utilize the domestic intellectual resources in the country itself. But, often the outcome is not very encouraging.

Sir, Thank you for your Question.

With regards,

Dr. MANOJ P K, CUSAT, KERALA, INDIA.

@Valery, it is a good news, sounds veri optimistic! I hope that famous State Universities will be restored and shine in new splendor! I remember many fine Universities in Russia!

http://www.msu.ru/en/

Thank you, Ljubomir. Maybe my remark sounded too optimistic. It will be very hard process with a lot of dificulties. Now it is very beginning.

@Ljubomir Jerinic, You have given very good facts about our "democracy"! Furthermore, let us mention that party commissars were led public sector and devastate it. In the last few years, all employment in the public sector was mostly political!

@Andras, I do not see anything wrong with the fact that Gavrilo Princip monument will be build to commemorate the centenary of the First World War! He was historical figure!

http://inserbia.info/news/2014/02/kusturica-to-seek-the-annulment-of-the-trial-of-gavrilo-princip/

Here in India, the Private Universities sometimes offer salaries higher than what are given in the Government controlled Universities. However, this has not actually effected the Public Universities controlled by the Government. Further, not every person wishes to work in Private Universities. So the problem mentioned in the question is not actually seen in India.

Why persons do not want to work in private universities in India? Too much pressure?

Dear Marcel Lambrechts Sir (and Hemanta Baruah Sir),

Not work pressure as such. That might be (not necessarily) one.

Others reasons in the Indian context include the following:

(1) Lack of job security; at any time they may check out

(2) Very rigorous feedback system (from students / authorities)

(3) Virtually nil post-retirement benefits (like, pension). (Such benefits are very good in public universities)

(4) Higher prestige to public university teachers; always the selection criteria is much more elaborate in public institutions.

(5) Freedom is much higher in public universities (eg. undertaking funded research)

(6) Funding agencies (mostly Government or Public) prefer only teachers of public universities. Only public universities could be assigned the responsibility for funding the research projects. Teachers of private universities get nil / very less consideration.

etc. etc.

[Of course, work pressure may be higher in private universities. Because, they have to ensure that the salary paid is commensurate with the efforts put in by the faculty. Now a days, they entrust some extra work on faculty members, in the shape of canvassing for students, because the newer private institutions / universities are not getting adequate number of students. (eg. Some professional courses like MBA / Engineering). Sometimes, the salary is linked to the number of students who enroll for the respective courses. Because, the private universities primarily depend on the fees collected from the students for funding themselves.]

As pointed out by Hemanta Baruah Sir, functioning of private universities do not significantly affect the public universities. Quite often, the degrees of public universities (and so also faculty members) of public universities are rated higher also. Of course, a few exemptions are there (eg. VIT, Vellore, SASTRA etc.).

With regards,

With regards,

Dr. MANOJ P K, CUSAT, KERALA, INDIA.

I see, that in discussion we are not on the same ground:

1 governmental vs private university - rentals, pension, etc.

2 control level

3 job and carreer opportunities

Question: if all these are equal, then what - no difference to work in private university?

Private universities are new entrants in India higher education. These are mainly focused on teaching Research is hardly given any attention. Work load is very

demanding sans job security. Public universities are a different phenomenon There is no comparison between the two types with regard to quality, research, job security and satisfaction. However, the situation may change in future.

@Linas, as @Autar said, private Universities is relatively a new category in my country and there is many problems about quality and other issues. There are many ugly affairs, many illegal operations etc!Newspapers are full every day of such information. Very corrupt education, with the exception of some private colleges! It takes time to become respected form of educational institutions!

A fairly good number of universities In India have been set up by business entrepreneurs(BEs) , not social entrepreneurs(SEs). BEs and SEs share important behavioural propensities but they have different end goals. A BE is primarily concerned with maximisation of profit whereas an SE with maximisation of social good ( see my article: Social capital-- social entrepreneurs and community dev--,IJSE,2010).

Is it possible for a private university in India to become a Harvard or Princeton that are richly endowed by philanthropists. If the answer is no, ,hen what institutional changes would be necessary to make it a possibility.

In Russia private Universities are under serious pressure now.They say it is because of low quality and maybe diplomas trading questions.

@Valery, that is the very serious issue on both quality, diplomas trading, professors who teach 70 subjects etc! I do live for a day when fair education become standard and obligation. It much depends on the law and should not be politically dependent!

My comment is: universities, which have insufficient staff, should be closed. This should be done without respect, are these universities private, or governmental.

Universities which have so-called insufficient staff can lower ambitions from a financial point of view. Education does not have to be that expensive!

Who judges honestly there is insufficient staff?

Nice remark of@Ljubomir about " professors who teach 70 subjects". Maybe It is some answer to @Marcel question "Who judges honestly there is insufficient staff?"

My dear colleagues, due to the 20% additional income tax at the state university in Serbia, there is a new problem.Professors cease to publish their own textbooks through state universities, but by private publishers! So far it was a good revenue for state universities!

@Marcel, in Soviet education was free! This was guarantied by Constitution.

We are facing again the export of an increased number of experts to the west countries!!! Nice future for country! :(

@Valery, I think we really understand each other, while not all of the others do.

Hi Linas,

one person can teach 1000 subjects, but is the information that is transmitted to students (1) reliable, (2) up-to-date, (3) representative concerning exiting knowledge, (4) easily understood by the students, etc..?

Marcel, I really think that one person can tech no more than five RELATED subjects, otherwise your list is not fulfilled.

as for Valery - we both know the soviet system, thats all.

Hi Linas,

I agree, but I also think that more topics can be handled at lower education levels. For instance, in primary school there only one teacher that can teach all the basics...

And there is a difference between just memorising knowledge (encyclopaedia approach) and solving problems which requires other skills

It is true when governments prohibit employment in the public sector; the education and research are in big trouble as youth belonging to these fields is demoralized and discouraged in a sense. Because, the ultimate objective of getting education is to get a job in most of the cases.

@Ljubomir,

what about the quality of teaching? I feel, that quality of Universities in my country is getting lower and lower, in most cases.

Dear @Linas, as @George has stated about the quality of teaching! Every year I do observe this problem in Serbia also.

With very few exceptions, governments usually intervene negatively upon dealing with education & research. It has been said that (authority corrupts) & the vast majority of top politicians are dishonest, indeed. When it comes to book-keeping, you will find the "big brothers" targeting education with cuts of support & with taxes. It is obvious that many governments have failed in job creation & they are "achieving" high rates of unemployment. Universities, that are described as "state" or those which rely on state's support, do not have a high probability of sustainability. It is time for the "concerned" scholars to wake up & do something to stop this deterioration of education & research in many parts of the world.

The opinion of Nizar Matar Sir seems quite meaningful. Because, after all the Government is a miniature of the political system of the country. It is an open secret that many politicians are corrupt, or they are not upright. Naturally, governmental interventions on the Educational system or universities might not always be in the right direction.

Another point is, as Ljubomir Jacic Sir rightly pointed out, private sector can contribute a lot towards the furtherance of higher education and research. Moreover, in the current scenario of globalization,  active participation of private sector is essential for advancement of higher education as well as research. In india, for instance, in spite of close governmental intervention in higher education, greater participation of the private sector is being ensured in a gradual and phased manner. Now, there are many private universities providing high quality education and are into quality research too.

Dr. MANOJ P K

FACULTY MEMBER, DAE, CUSAT, KOCHI, KERALA, INDIA.