Here are some facts, according to respectful newspaper BlIC.It is said that there are about ten thousand students who graduated in the Bologna process, and did not get a diploma, nor do they know when they will!Many of them have graduated as early as in 2010, have enrolled master and doctoral studies, but have not seen their diplomas yet. "Instead of diplomas, faculties issued to students certificates on graduation and they cost even up to 5,000 Dinars. To make the matter worse, the graduates are not sure what title of theirs shall be written in their diplomas. At the faculty student services they say that rectorate is responsible for diploma delay, while the rectorate claims that faculties are responsible for the delay."!
It's just a reflection of Serbian way to Europe! In the process of transformation of higher education, we entered unprepared, quickly implemented Bologna model and made a disastrous educational system! Do you have a similar experience, what are your thoughts?
I´m horrified. Young people are completely disdained. They wait, are regarded demonstratively as irrelevant and unimportant. After waiting for the diploma because of bureaucrats who are bone idle or corrupt, they start their professional life without jobs. If they get a job, they are paid very poor.
Don´t ignore them, they are our future!
There is always a problem when making things in rush. Many countries were ready to do anything to obey the rules imposed by the EU to enter the EU.
It is unbelievable! Four years? Isn't this the definition of corruption?(if we yake into account the 5000 dinars?)
I´m horrified. Young people are completely disdained. They wait, are regarded demonstratively as irrelevant and unimportant. After waiting for the diploma because of bureaucrats who are bone idle or corrupt, they start their professional life without jobs. If they get a job, they are paid very poor.
Don´t ignore them, they are our future!
It is really horrible. In some other countries, a university graduate wait for more than five years for his diploma.
Before the Bologna process diploma corresponds to the adequate knowledge of this diploma after Bologna process diploma corresponds to their price. In general, have the Bologna process at least somewhere positive results? Many real practices confirm us that this system aimed to the destruction of many good education systems.
What to say!!!
I myself don't have have my graduate degree after 8 years (graduated in 2006). All I have is a provisional certificate as the proof of graduation. It is worldwide.
Dear Darasingh,
I´ve no comment. Just: all these graduates like You have a soul, feelings and want to be accepted. Feeling with you. Regards Hanno
The cause may be corruption or bureaucracy or poor management or poor education policy by government due to which students have to suffer but they cannot take away their knowledge and skills.
Regards,
Nitish
Wow! Just wow is all I can say. I can't say that I have any experience with anything of that magnitude - the closest equivalent that I can think of here in the states is the roll-out of the new health care system. On a smaller scale, however, American universities have been accreting layers of management and process. This is a significant cultural change for many in the academy and many administrators who, by and large, have not had much experience with private sector enterprises and process. This has resulted in processes that have not been implemented with the appropriate change management, uneven implementation, and often a poor understanding of process university-wide. This has produced sclerosis in a number of areas, though not at the level you describe above. My take is that too much has been rolled out too fast and in the wrong fashion by folks who don't really understand the ethos and the practical implications.
Dear Ljubomir,
In Hungary many students cannot get a diploma because they do not speak at least one foreign language. According to the law – and it is right – nobody can get a degree without passing a language examination. Thus, some students – even politicians – try to buy a fake certification at the black market.
Regarding the Serbian way to Europe, there are troubles even with staying at home in Europe!
Dear All,
The Bologna process main aim seems to be to equalize or multiply the disadvantages.
It is disturbing ! What about their future? Who is going to take the responsibility of the valuable time lost, in the process?
This is really demotivating and disturbing. Some of the students get their degrees after 12 years of completion of the course.
Is it only a matter of bureaucracy? Can such a situation be avoided through academic guidance to students, i.e., ensuring that the student fulfills all requirements before graduation?
@András: If it´s true what you state, wouldn´t it be easier to learn a foreign language than to wait for years or to corrupt some one in the bureaucracy? Then I can´t understand these lazy graduates. But the other cases cited here in this discussion are obviously not caused by such mechanisms.
Dear Ljubomir
.
According to the Ministry of Education and Culture of Brazil, only universities and university centers may issue diplomas, which has a term of up to one year. The excuse for the delay in delivery of the diploma is lack of staff for this function. Colleges accredited universities rely on the Ministry of Education and Culture (MEC) to make this record. Only courses recognized by MEC receive diploma. The delay in delivery of the diploma makes many students resort to justice. And several complaints coming to federal prosecutors. Prosecutors intend to assist the Ministry of Education and Culture to create a rule imposing a time limit on the presentation of diplomas to colleges.
"While this legislation does not go out, the prosecutor may issue recommendations, may make agreements, terms of behavior adjustment
In Brazil, unfortunately, are common delays in delivery of diploma
If students have fulfilled all academic requirements, what is so difficult about issuing a certificate? Won't it reflect badly on the college/ university and cause students to shun it?
Thankfully, I didn't have such an experience. After I completed my studies, I got my results slip and a temporary degree and I had only had one weekend of rest, and began teaching the following Monday. The convocation was 2 months after that.
@Prof Ljubomir and friends, could it be that the colleges acted on a directive that came from SOMEWHERE to act in this manner? And who would have the Power to do such a thing?
Prof Ljubomir and colleagues, As I have stated offline through Research Gate,
to say that you have shared a challenging issue is really an understatement. No, I have not had an experience of a breakdown in processes to this magnitude. It seems that there is a need for a major meeting among the people responsible for the processes. In addition, someone knowledgeable in systems analysis and realignment of processes would be quite helpful. Maybe start with a general call in the newspaper, or most broad medium for communicating with the populace and have the individuals come to a particular location at regular intervals to be processed and to receive a diploma onsite. Surely there are records of enrollment somewhere. Perhaps, extra staff can be brought in to assist.
@Nola, it is not the problem of bureaucracy, it is much serious one! For example, try to understand the problem by an engineering field, paper attached!
Much bigger problem arises in the field of Diploma nostrification!!!!
http://www.grupa484.org.rs/en/news/public-hearing-held-diploma-nostrification
http://facta.junis.ni.ac.rs/aace/aace2002/aace2002-05.pdf
Thank you for sharing the paper. I had no idea that all these issues were lingering behind your question. This is not simply a matter of delays in issuance of degrees. The issue is realignment of the university system for educating engineers in Serbia. Simultaneously, there are some important changes in the popularity of engineering as a major, with young people perceiving the major as difficult and less attractive for students. The very broad educational goal, as described in your paper, is summed in the statement "reform, along with applying the principles of the Bologna Declaration, is also to make the essential changes in university education in accordance with the realistic capabilities and needs of Serbia." So, the problems are realignment--which has been piecemeal with further complications to curriculum- faculty roles, student retention and recruitment, as well as elimination of wasteful reduplication of courses. Forgive my narrow experience base; however, I equate "technical" with two-year colleges or special training-certification programs, not universities (in U. S., consisting of a group of colleges, with a strong liberal education core). Just as critical as passing a law is a necessity to consider processes for realignment. Passing a law without careful planning can be disastrous. However, sometimes disaster, unfortunately, is the motivation for us to seek some lasting changes.
@Nola, speaking about technical colleges, You should differ from two years colleges in USA.Here, Colleges are 3+1 years of studying duration! We are speaking about BS degree!
Finally, the solution to the problem have been announced! Diplomas with Diploma's Supplement in English language describing the level of higher education and with all relevant information about, according to Bologna principles will be available in next three months for about 10.000 students. They enrolled the University in 2006!
Oh, thanks for the follow-up, Ljubomir about two-year vs. four-year colleges. I have been aware from the discussion several days. I do understand that you are talking about a BS degree and I agree with you that it is an extremely lengthy wait time for these graduates. This is unfortunate.
Serbian National Qualifications Framework for Higher Education is attached. Everything was written well, but there was no doing!!! The Diploma Supplement is obligatorily issued along with the diploma. The Diploma Supplement is supported by a description of the higher education system in the Republic in force at the time of the acquired education specified in the diploma.
NATIONAL QUALIFICATIONS FRAMEWORK IN SERBIA - document which is still in development progress for Higher Education!
http://www.konus.ac.rs/files/Activities_of_the_National_Council_for_Higher_Education.pdf
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