In my opinion science is more passion, less profession. Thus money are important, but not the most important. In my opinion only 30% of research is successful. Thus increases amount of money spend on particular research do not guarantee breakthrough. Moreover scientist is shaped by attitude to his/her specialty and efforts to extend the knowledge adn experience, but not quite post or position on university or institute. No doubts effective hard workers among scientists should be awarded with some additional amount of money to develope their research. This way competitions between researchers are important, but not only way to achieve more money for research (sometimes is impossible to compare results or compete). I use e.g. RG to look for valuable scientists, learn from them, and maybe co-work in the future. Research activity brings me happiness, my post is in clinical hospital, not university, I have not got big money to spend on my research, but I conduct them successfully - thus am I scientist or not :) ?

Till now ..we are getting some form of stipend on monthly basis while doing phd..but it is directly funded by the university..

but we don't have much finding for research work....or say not at all . ..jst use the stuffs and instruments available in the labs

In my university (Unversity of Tartu, Estonia), PhD students do not have to pay for ther studies and they also all get a small scholarship - 384 EUR a month tax free. Estonia's minimum salary is 320 EUR (net salary is 272.93) and a lecturer's and also a researcher's minimum salary is 800 EUR (net salary is 636.96) while Estonia's average salary is about 930 EUR (net salary 735.55). Thus, academic career is not very attractive.

@Tiia, @Doru , similar situations in our countries! Yes, they prefer better paid jobs instead of academic career!

@Vitaly, agree with Your post. But , in countries where You do have a most of State Universities and some private Universities with no long tradition at all, there is a difference in quality. That difference will disappear after many years. In a meantime, the goverment should take care of their institutions. So, my thread is adressing state schools. Young democracies, former east-block countries face this problem, I think!

Finally, I think , in long term, that there is no danger for higher education!

In the UK the education system has slightly changed with new fees for undergraduate studies ESP. However UK universities tend to look at Ph.D. studentships still positively. The competition in getting such studentships is quite high though.

May I also add, in UK universities there is an increasing trend towards "project-targeted" PhD studentships, so many applicants may see adverts on particular work themes available. Still the competition is very high.

Dear Professor Ljubomir Jacić, Yes very true, respective governments are taking initiatives on their part and also time to time they put corrective measures. My view point is these initiatives and measures neither were sufficient nor it will be until and unless businessmen (industrialists) and educational institutions show their will to solve this problem for the benefit of the society "education opportunity for all".

Hi all and thanks for sharing your experiences. For the last 5 years I have worked with private universities in Malaysia, Oman and Iran. According to my experience in private universities the situation is even worse and both professors and postgraduate students face financial hardship (my salary is two third of colleagues in state universities! and we have no funding for PhD students). I know also that the state universities have problems in funding all PhD students in an acceptable level. I think we are living in a transitional phase of higher education system characterized by internationalization and privatization and depending on how the HEIs respond to theses trends will determine their success or failure in funding PhD students. Certainly privatization creates inequalities in postgraduate studies and negatively affects the quality of programs. However if the university strengthens it research departments and fosters a culture of research and expands its ties with industry in order to bring its research consistent with the social needs, then adverse effects of transition could be more tolerable.

Doctoral education should completely be financed by goverment because Doctor candidates and their adivsors should dedicate themselves into scientific task rather than earning money.

Dear Ljubomir, in Greece almost all universities are state universities. There exist two type of PhD students: one of full time involvement at the university (they earn a 'monthly salary' which depends on the university) and another of not full time (they don't earn money, only if their supervisor add them in a EU program they can earn about 200 euro net per month or something more). I am in the second group and I know very well the problems that arise due to non financial aid for PhD research. If you want my opinion: the situation will become worse and worse untill it begins to be better. I don't know when this will have been completed, probably after 5-7 years, so be patient!

Interesting discussion. The problem is very old. I remenber my own experience during my studies and PhD time.

The situation is:

1. Dont pay for the studies and the necessary equipment for the research!

2. Reduce the salary of scientists and universitary teachers!

3. Discuss about paid publications!

4. Be astonished if science is getting uninteresting for most of the academics by the time!

Good declaring disscussion to this problem can also be found in the answers to the question "Are scientists idealists or materialists" here in RG.

You can find an overview of different academia systems with a detailed comment on the german system here:

http://alexandreafonso.wordpress.com/2013/11/21/how-academia-resembles-a-drug-gang/

You will see that PhD students and their future perspectives are quite different in different countries.

Dear Professor Ljubomir Jacić, Yes very true. Same is true for my country also. The new researchers have two folded problems. To have bread and career. For first, one they started taking jobs in self-finance institutes which simply exploit them with less pay. On the other hand research suffers. Govt.'s education department is not serious about this critical problem.

In order to avoid the current problems as described by my colleagues here, and to avoid falling into pure commercial tendencies, the following requirements have to be taken into consideration:

1. Having a national plan for science, technology, and capacity building.

2. If there is a Ministry that is responsible for planning and development, then there should be a 5-years plan (at least) for specialists, scientists needs

3. Create partnerships with the industry to solve real problems, and therefore both the private universities may utilize such information to fund their PhDs and the same applies to public universities.

4. Strengthen relations with EC for projects funding, consequently, PhDs stipends could be afforded

5. Finally, university budgeting and using the PhD candidates in teaching to cover their stipends.

I do not know if I sound theoretical, but this is practiced. If not, then there should be a move towards implementing such a system. The responsibility goes to the Universities and research centers to initiate the efforts.

In Lebanon, the PhD fees are low in Public University (there is only one) and very few private universities have specific PhD programs where the fees are high, but lately students are supported because they serve as teachers or research assistants. Funds are allocated for these purposes. Moreover, the Lebanese National Council for Scientific Research offers to all professors and PhD candidates opportunities for funding based on proposals submitted every year or in multiple number of years. The source of funding is the European Community, Arab Countries, and so forth.

Dear Professor Ljubomir Jacić,

You are absolutely right, but in our country, they extended the retirement time for all faculties in higher educations or all central Universities up to 65 years, so here is not bright future for the young researcher and young scientists.

This is definitely a hot topic in many places, and new ways of atracting funding to develop doctoral programmes need to be developed, in order to make up for the lack of public funding. Instead of relying solely on public funding, universities should strenghten their ties with industry and the external economic tissue in order to get funding from a wider set of sources.

Dear Ljubomir,

I have read recently an article of the state secretary of higher education (former rector of the best Hungarian university) about the decline of quality of Hungarian higher education. This decline is a fact and I have observed it for many years.

Regarding PhD training, it is a hard question. Admission of PhD students is a good bargain of departments and some supervisors because these young men and women do many teaching and research activities and their salary (a very modest one) is paid by the state. Unfortunately, the PhD scholarship salary is not attractive and research facilities are also various. Thus, it is difficult to find a talented PhD student. Influential university circles and persons can manipulate the admission of PhD students – thanks to their connections – not only because of the former mentioned activities (gratis workers) of PhD students but also of a not too high bench-fee which is paid by the state to support PhD training. Even the smallest amount of money is highly appreciated these days. However, the number of young PhD holders is not high compared with other countries nevertheless these young people cannot find suitable workplace and try to get scholarships or jobs in Western Europe or overseas where opportunities are more favourable. Certainly, only the best can get a job and the mediocre or untalented layer remains at home. I remember a bright young molecular biologist, who spent more than 4 years after getting his PhD having miserable six months or one year jobs when at least he found a scholarship in Australia. These people try to do everything to prolong their stay in abroad or get a new opportunity. Regarding university jobs, it is difficult to find suitable talented specialists for a good university but there are colleges where the output – people mainly with a BSc degree – is not suitable for the demand of our country as the state secretary put it out modestly in a national paper a week ago.

I remark: An associate professor at a university (with over 35 year experiences from which 25 year university teaching, with PhD and habilitation) earns 1066 Euro gross salary (690 Euro take-home pay). Now, one of our colleagues leaves the university. We have contacted 5 persons without teaching experience but nobody wanted to come to us and teach. A billionaire poultry producer has been interviewed on the value of young BSc and/or MSc holders and had a disastrous opinion published in a national paper and also on internet about 2weeks ago.

My dear colleagues, I am pleasantly surprised with the response! In less than 24 hours, we do have 24 answers! It implies that this thread is very actual all over the world. We got here very good answers, ideas, experiences, proposals, analysis etc. So, very hot issue, isn't it? Thanks for Your valuable comments, and I do expect more of them frequently. Nice discussion is going on! :)

Dear Thomas,

Are you satisfied with German circumstances?

Dear Hanno,

With how much amount of money do you think my salary should be reduced?

Dear András, nice misunderstanding. I tried to express exactly the opposite!

Dear András,

The statistics in Germany seems to be like:

- the number of PhD students in Germany is still growing - most of them in proper paid positions.

- there are nearly no permanent PostDoc positions in Germany. There are a few at large research institutes like my own (DIPF).

- open professor positions will decrease within the next years.

I don't want to judged this system, but you need a very high motivation to go for a professor position with a high risk of personal failure. At least there is a growing number of excellent scientists who are forced to leave the system. For example, it is normally not possible in a PostDoc position to start a family (because you need a stable economic base for this).

@Andras, the very same situation is in Serbia, which You probably know! Concerning salary, it is also the same. I thought that within European Union there are higher salaries at Universities! Sad story!

In principle I do agree with Baogui Xin that “Doctoral education should completely be financed by government” so that they focus on their researches instead of managing finances for their research. However, a situation may arise when the governments find it difficult to finance researches. In such a situation it becomes imperative to establish linkages between universities and industry and the proceeds can be utilised to fund basic research and researches which cannot be marketed.

@Andras, concerning Hanno's post, I really think that it was the same attitude as Yours!

Dear Professor Ljubomir Jacić,

Local governments are doing their best for education internally for their citizens. But getting education abroad becoming more costly. Less enrollments in private universities may affect the benefits of their staff.

@ Thomas, really interesting how little has changed in the last decades. Its exactly the same situation which I experienced. Good and sufficient financial support by the guiding prof (jobs in the institute, DFG) during the studies, abrupt end of support in the post PhD time because of missing positions which leads to finishing of the scientific development of the majority of the young PhDs..

@Vitaly, I don´t understand your sarcasm. Have you ever tried to feed and support a young family, to educate your children without earning the necessary income?

Dear Hanno,

I am sorry. I was not enough thorough.

Money is not the goal, but the assumption that it is available to someone who wants to study , since there are many costs to be covered. After, young smart person, Dr XY will apply for some position in order to work. His salary is something that is assumed in order to live and give his contribution to the community!

@Deepray, what are Your proposals?

Things are getting aggressive.

Usually there is a difference between academia and industry jobs. Although universities are not paying enough, but many universities in Lebanon (and based on such a reality) are giving their faculty permission to teach in other universities or take consulting jobs to a certain extent not to cause conflict of interest. True there are real discrepancies when comparing salaries between nations (possibly in different continents) but one (being an educator or scientist) has to have a realty check even before going for the chosen career. Working in academia does not pay as much as working in commerce or the industry. Having that reality, then one has to choose and live with the consequences.

Dear Vitaly,

I think money is not an assessment unit created and supported by scientists. This is the manner of judgment of society of which scientists are part. I used to say: a scientist without vegetative and other human demands has not been invented but many great organizers (more cruel and trickier than Ostap Bender) work on it.

Dear Thomas,

Why are excellent scientists forced to leave the system in Germany?

What is a high risk of personal failure you mentioned?

I agree with Vitaly's remark about the personal view and history of every scientist. Indeed you have to try enough to overcome difficult situations in countries like Greece: Here we had a three months strike of the administrative staff at Athens University and it was practically closed and no payment was done. So, how can you survive? People from ex-Eastern countries can understand those hard experiences, people from western countries cannot (except if they have their origin from other countries). How can a German or Luxemburgian or French or English professor understand a Greek PhD student? He/she simply cannot...Here in RG we are a set of heterogeneous scientists coming from different countries with different cultures, different degree of political or academic corruption etc. So, the question can be answered country by country. But if we have to answer about future: No I am not optimistic, money will become rare and rare...

I would like to share my experience confirming Vitaly's point about going through hardships. Loosing my scholarship while studying my PhD was subject sometimes to departmental internal policies, so at some point being in a foreign country I had to work as a janitor! and many other low-level jobs. With determination I was able to pull my studies to graduate. Later on, I went through the tunnel of darkness ...looking for a job with a PhD in a country full of politics and one-sided recommendations. I had to work for several years as an instructor in several universities until due to my reputation of being hard worker, ethical, and persuasive person I landed on my full time job. All through these experiences I had a family as well. Many years working at minimum wage! Today I am better of (:-))))

Is there a light at the end, the answer is yes.

Dear Vitaly,

What you have written is nice and true. The trouble is that because of material facts many talented young men and women are forced to choose a not scientific profession and will be lost for the science. You can say they were not enough committed to science and did not know real sacrifice for a passionate vocation. I am afraid actual situations in life are not so easy to judge. In countries where the development of a talented individual is not provided, there is no suitable opportunity the future of science or art is in danger and our fine and true model stories are only fairy-tales.

There is funding in the United States for research, however, getting the funding is quite competitive now more than ever.

Dear Professor Ljubomir Jacić,

Yes, no one can question about economy power. It leaves some imprints of the past controls present and decides the future. It never differentiates the sector. Education is one of those important sector for individuals, families, communities, societies, nation, region and globe but finally a student becomes victim by unfortunate tarnished dream of a qualified and deserving student.

I am very much touched by knowing the personal sufferings expressed through some of their posts. My sympathy are with them.

Dear Afaq, thank you for your sympathy... We really feel better now...

Dear Professor Jacic,

In India, three years ago, the Government introduced a research fellowship scheme for those who secure the first position in the first class in any of the subjects of science and technology from any government controlled University of the country. In addition, there is the National Eligibility Test for Junior Research Fellows.

One can get research schemes from the Government, although such schemes are tough to get. In the Indian Institutes of Technology, there are research scholarships available; however about the current selection process, I am not quite certain.

In my opinion science is more passion, less profession. Thus money are important, but not the most important. In my opinion only 30% of research is successful. Thus increases amount of money spend on particular research do not guarantee breakthrough. Moreover scientist is shaped by attitude to his/her specialty and efforts to extend the knowledge adn experience, but not quite post or position on university or institute. No doubts effective hard workers among scientists should be awarded with some additional amount of money to develope their research. This way competitions between researchers are important, but not only way to achieve more money for research (sometimes is impossible to compare results or compete). I use e.g. RG to look for valuable scientists, learn from them, and maybe co-work in the future. Research activity brings me happiness, my post is in clinical hospital, not university, I have not got big money to spend on my research, but I conduct them successfully - thus am I scientist or not :) ?

@Emilia, you are certainly more scientist than many-many others I have met. Keep in mind that you have a job, since many of the contributors here in RG do not have a job and that is the real problem, not the % of money vs other things in science. In other words, when you have to survive you think differently...

@ Demetris, I share this experience: I have self-founded PhD, I hope self-founded DSc in the future, in the beginning of my cereer I was uneployed (3 years) due I changed city with my husband. It was very hard to build my career from the beginning ten years ago (my daughter is now 12), but it was worth waiting for. So young scientists should not give up and try, try, try ... of course if science is their passion. I hope they will be succesful.

You will certainly succeed, Emilia.

Indeed Emilia, I second your input. Perseverance is a must and much more is the patience necessary through the process. Acting as an agent of change in a community is challenging by itself.

@Emilia, I admire Your posts and attitude. Thanks! In fact, you are a true example of dedicated scientists!

In my country Algeria, this problem is not exists.

Dear Professor Zeraoulia Elhadj,

Good to hear about that the country you reside is free from this problem. Hope and pray to sustain with this.

Since there is no guaranty of job after Ph. D. Self financing a Ph. D. by the scholar is not possible unless of course the scholar has adequate support from parents/ spouse... . There are examples of leaving Ph. D. for a lesser job just to support family.

As Prof Hemanta mentioned here in India we do have quite a few Govt sponsored scholarship programmes for Ph. D. even for Post Doc. But it is not for every one. If I am not wrong most of the Indian central universities do provide scholarship to students admitted to Ph. D. programme, though the amount is not good. But the state universities there is nothing!

In India there is no financial Problem for PhD in engineering.

Dear All,

It was touching to acknowledge how the deepest layer of human souls has been shocked because of the example of Emilia. Her story is not a rarity in former socialist (communist) countries. I do not know particularly the Greek situations but I have known some Greek scientists and as far as I could remember their circumstances and facilities were – fortunately - much better than ours – in that time. I remember a young scientist from Greece who did not accept a Hungarian short scholarship about 4-5 years ago because it was not high enough to cover also the charges of her boy friend. I am afraid the example of Emilia is only a single one and fortunately it has had a good output. What about other young people who have not had such a chance like she. I think without luck hard work is not sufficient in most cases. And I stress - from point of view of this discussion - statistical approach of this topic is determinant. Please, keep in mind that some do not dare to talk on the real situation of the young scientists. Has anybody got some information from North Korea or China?

It was fascinating to read some comments where colleagues put out: there were no troubles regarding the career of young scientists. I have thought always we are living in the “best world of all possible worlds”.

I have done my BS and MS without funding, and my first year of the PhD program did not have funding, all at schools in the US. I earned my TA position to fund a few years of my PhD, through working jobs on campus and doing well in academics. It is my belief that there is more meaning in a degree when you worked your way through it in addition to the academics and research.

It pains me to see students with full funding at the start of a higher degree when they had parents pay for their education as undergrads then when they get funding they dont know how to work(TA or Research) and keep up with their academics when there are students that have worked their way through and are working multiple jobs to be able to stay in school because they were not awarded funded.

Honestly as long as funding isnt suddenly cut off and there is time for a student to put in the effort to get grants and fellowships and if need be a job then there is nothing wrong with it, grad school in many cases leads to research or academia and I doubt that there will be a boss that will just hand over money to fund work so you have to find it.

Finances I assume in all cultures creates a divide in the treatment, experience and education of students. I think any place that does not have this issue is lucky that the degree is about passion and not money. Also just a reminder, no one is forcing someone to get a PhD, they have a degree they can get a job if they don't like the politics or having to put in work to find funds.

Of course it is the same in Spain: "They think, therefore they are an obstacle", that is the motto for the future of public universities in our countries.

Solution is an International Scientist Trade Union. Sounds like fiction, but it is real. Do you want to join?.

What is the international Science Trade Union?

Dear Dr Ljubomir,

From your question and the responses, it is obvious that the scientific community and research fraternity endorses your anguish at insufficient funding - both to the researchers and to the institutions. With reference to Emilla and Hussin, I completely endorse their opinions.

I have just a small point to add. While research is about an individual's thirst for knowledge in his field of choice, institutions have a great role to play towards generation of funds. A carefully designed Institution-Industry interface, appropriate lobbying both in and outside the government can get enough funds for the institutions which can then be used to fund both the projects as well as the researchers involved in the project.

What we need is vision and passion to contribute to the development of knowledge combined with a pragmatic approach at top leaderships in the Universities for finding financial support.

Going back to Emilla, I think as a community of researchers, we need to tell her that she is a fine example of people committed to science!

Have a great day!

@András, the situation in Greece has dramatically changed the last three years and your example mentioned above is part of the history... now our country is like ex-Eastern countries and that's the reason why people from those countries can always deeper understand my written arguments (As for the girl you mentioned: Her boy-friend probably has left her!)

Mr. Jacic, this is very seriouse question, but it solving need enormouse iniciatives and efforts from your community. In the forum of 'Researchgate' I am not sure that you shall receive suitable model for already applied solutions. Even if similar situations exsists wourld-wide.

The Uni Belgrad is public as I understood.

In this respect is, has official statement from the government of Serbia for reduction of the academic staff? Which are these reasons (if have)? Is has any statements for reduction of budget for the Higher Education for Serbia? Have you information for performed revision from public prosecutor for your University? Has your University lawsuits agains the current Rectors' administration?. If have from which character they are? Is the activity of the Rectors' administration are transparent for the academic community at your University? Is their activity is transparent for the students and other University's staff? Is problem with the payment effects only Uni Belgrad? The origin would be also from your Rectors' administration. You know actually that the control over the Rectors' staff is perform very difficult.

Is such policy is common for other Unis in Serbia? Have you information and transparency in the 'public space' (Statements of the Rectors of other Universities, from the University of Belgrade), any public debats?...and many, many other questions of such character.

University Sofia during 98s' had same problem exactly, but it was due to the political reasons. The political understanding of the Rectors' administration was opposie one to the government policy. The Rectors however demonstrated very transparent policy in front not only the academic community. Than the students organized protests, suporting the Rectors' administration against the government. Because actually the administration at this time was competent. But they met the political opponents in the Bulgarian government at the same time. Even series of media campagnes were organized and were very effective.

But in your concret case, you should clarify first the 'origin' of this 'problem', and which character it has. Petition fron the Senat, most probably would has any effect, most probably but not sure...

@Demeris

Re to: "(As for the girl you mentioned: Her boy-friend probably has left her!)"

I am Emilia's husband (since 14 years), I did not lef her for sure. We have daughter, got normal home and even Mercedes now :) I am former professional soldier (major ret.), well qualified specialist in IT and comms, I fought in Iraq, and I am scientist now, so I read RG discussions sometimes. Despite I am example of "wrong CV" - I starded my scientific career in the age of 35 (six years ago) - I am deeply convinced I am good at it - see please my RG profile. I started my scientific career from the beginning six years ago. Now my PhD dissertation (self-founded) is almost ready, I am investigator in several grants (co-editor in one) concerning computational neuroscience and biocybernetics, I am graduating my fourth postgraduate study (I worked very hard and I found external co-founding for three of them) and I plan my MBA studies (I am looking for external co-founding). Thus success in science, even without a plenty of money and with "wrong CV" is possible, but:

1) ont every people has enough power and abilities,

2) not every people achieve success,

3) there is some occupations to have co-founder (but it may depend on country, discipline),

3) maybe some of them should think about other ways of carrer (as my military career - I have not got possility to be scientist just after my MSc studies), and later return to scientific plans, if they are passionates,

4) some scientists who are fully financed by governemnt do not appreciate their very good situation and are not aware much harder situation of other scientists.

@Bojidarka, I have stated in may earlier posts that the problem is with all State Universities! There is no funds allocated in the budget for this purpose, Ph.D studies! Many good students can not afford to pay scholarship for three years!

@Pavel, I do agree with your facts!

Dear Ljubomir,

"Abandon hope, all ye who enter here". It's very hard to be realized in the situation, where "war is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength"(G.Orwell). Even if you commit to science, you will have never achieved that is wanted. "It's enough to boast of great learning, because intellect is a hurdle, and great learning is stupidity here"(Jamil). The son of groom, must be a groom, because a general has his own son. To Vasya, "the darker, the easier to be a star" Under unfortunate external circumstances, good intentions and purposeful plans meet with failure at the attempt of their realization. To your self-actualization you should adjust the desired to the real..

@Irina, thanks for fine tuned contribution. Agree at all!

Demetris,

Here you are a good piece of news: The boy-friend has not left the girl.

Well spoken Irina, you would have made a great impact on a political platform. This is a compliment and I mean it.

The world is not as dark and gloomy as we presume it is. With every night, there will be a new morning. Philosophy apart, we must look at realities: Is there any society in the world that does not want progress? There are none. We can change if WE want to. In some societies the change comes slow; in others, a little faster. The truth is we are all changing. The advancement of knowledge is the only constant in the evolution of mankind. And, that advancement has not happened because somebody funded it. We do not know whether Einstein found America or America found him, but theory of relativity changed the way we understand the world. Issac Newton may not be a Chinese. But, without him Chinese can not send a pencil beyond their rooftops! Knowledge is the only thing, particularly when it is combined with passion, that can not be hidden, restrained or stopped. And remember that it belongs to everyone.

You are right-when our own belief in our ability to be pathfinders receives no support, we have a reason to feel angry with the world. Do not despair, for every night, there is a new morn!

Dear Irina,

Do you think we have been in the hell?

“So spake I; and when he had onward mov'd,

I enter'd on the deep and woody way.

"Thorough me you pass into the city of woe:

Through me you pass into eternal pain:

Through me among the people lost for aye.

Justice the founder of my fabric mov'd:

To rear me was the task of power divine,

Supremest wisdom, and primeval love.

Before me things create were none, save things

Eternal, and eternal I endure.

All hope abandon ye who enter here."

Such characters, in colour dim, I marked

Over portal’s lofty arch inscribed.”

Translated by Henry Francis Cary

Please, specify. This is the rule among scientists.

There is a big difference between

"Abandon hope, all ye who enter here."

and

„All hope abandon ye who enter here.”

Dear Ljubomir, Srinivasan, thank you,, but I'm sure leakage of creative human beings and wits is a terrible phenomenon for a country. There is Goldfield' s article http://elementy.ru/lib/430513 It's devoted to this problem. On the one hand, to Maslow, "If you deliberately plan on being less than you are capable of being, then I warn you that you'll be unhappy for the rest of your life"Self-actualization of the higher needs is a necessary condition of personal growth. Sometimes this personal growth is impossible. Thus, from Russia since 1990 -to 2004 more than 25.000 scientists had left and 40.000 were working abroad (without returning). To B.Pascal,"It would be enough, if 300 intellectuals left France, France would turn to a country of idiots". I think, it's true for other countries."Will be there a light at the end of the tunnel?"- M.G.Goldenfield asks.

Mr. Jacic, the involvment of the promising PhD students into the scientific research is of emergent importance, for the quality of the higher education and the scientific research. Because of the self-funding actually does not provide quality. From 10 years periodically I visit PhD thesis presentations in Bulgarian (3) and in Germany (2 ) Unis. The largest % of self-funding students are not provide the competitive knowledge. Especially in German Educational system, the PhD students abroad are among the less competitive candidates for academic and research career.

In this respect the funding by the government, even limited is of significance for promoting really talanted students with personal intellectual qualities. This can be realized throuth their competitive examination (even periodical). Other possibility is funding of the PhD students by their involvment in the research project activity. In Serbia, I am not sure that it can be realize currently, due to financial reasons. Here have also lot possibilities by the public and private organizations (mainly Foundations). Nevertheless, that the mechanism by the Foundations also does not garantie the promotion of only highly qualified stuedents. Because, particularly in the German fiundations have not regulation control over the quality of the educational and research processes. One time when given PhD student receive grant than the examination and the promotion is in the hand of the academic community at the Unis. Even have persons with PhD grad without publication activity. Therefore this is payment versus sheet A4 format for PhD degree versus unknown quality, unknown experience, unknown contributions.

Your community should decide actually which mechanisms for funding of PhD students are applicable for Serbia, but possibilities for financial support for talanted students should have,

Dear Irina,

There is here the original part of Dante’s Divine Comedy http://www.mediasoft.it/dante/

"Per me si va ne la città dolente,

3. 2 per me si va ne l'etterno dolore,

3. 3 per me si va tra la perduta gente.

3. 4 Giustizia mosse il mio alto fattore:

3. 5 fecemi la divina podestate,

3. 6 la somma sapienza e 'l primo amore.

3. 7 Dinanzi a me non fuor cose create

3. 8 se non etterne, e io etterno duro.

3. 9 Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate".

3. 10 Queste parole di colore oscuro

3. 11 vid'io scritte al sommo d'una porta;

ogne speranza = all hope

„There are more things in heaven anf earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.”

Dear Bojidarka,

How can you state something without information enough? How can you generalise particular events experienced in your own country and in Germany? You have written: “Because of the self-funding actually does not provide quality.”

Self-financing cannot be a solution for the future but you have entered into an unknown area.

My eldest daughter has 5 MA degrees. She has finished her 3 last degrees financing herself that is working. Now, she prepares her PhD also financing herself. Besides, she teaches at two universities, is a free-lance interpreter and translator, sings opera and jazz and she will prepare the cake for Christmas. Her PhD subject is opera translation and she has had a scholarship in order to study the work of Sir Georg Solti in Boston.

I am afraid one can find even the fittest persons among self-funding PhD students. It is a shame that the official frames of PhD opportunities are filled sometimes with unsuitable persons.

Please, make a difference between real self-financing persons and those whose rich parents pay.

Shakespeare might be right: „There are more things…”

Andras, good point about Dante's Inferno. Just to be sure, these are the words over its gate:

"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"

Perhaps an alternative to such a pessimistic symbolic inclination is to be found in Machiavelli's words in the Discursi:

"Dico, adunque, che tutti i detti modi [di governi] sono pestiferi, per la brevità della vita che è ne’ tre buoni, e per la malignità che è ne’ tre rei. Talché, avendo quelli che prudentemente ordinano leggi, conosciuto questo difetto, fuggendo ciascuno di questi modi per sé stesso, ne elessero uno che participasse di tutti, giudicandolo più fermo e più stabile; perché l’uno guarda l’altro"

(source: http://it.wikisource.org/wiki/Discorsi_sopra_la_prima_Deca_di_Tito_Livio_(1824)/Libro_primo/Capitolo_2)

This is the most cited precocious proposition of the checks and balances principle.

My point is - and I sincerely hope I'm not deviating from the topic!- that science is not entirely autonomous; on the contrary, we are distant from a "rationalist" ideal (in the platonian sense) society, where science would ensure Reason, and thus deserve unconditional support from society. Yet, we don't need to argue for the unconditional demise of reason. It seems possible that the machiavellian principle of checks and balances may be not completely irrelevant to conceive our insertion in society, and try to foresee our roles, our prerrogatives, and our nearly permanent and unsurmountable difficulties from a new perspective. Again, we don't need to deny reason; we don't have to abandon our urgent needs; still, it seems too difficult to ensure that reason could conform to one and only logic.

Of course, I am sorry if the experience of living in one of the most platonian and positivist of societies, in which the very meanings of modernity are paradoxically and restlessly under dispute, makes one to inadvertently deviate from the original question.

believe me in INDIA the funded research is conducted by 10% Government aid. And most of the research happens by self/private funding

Fundamental of developing nations : You have to fight very hard to have gotten support from governments

@Dariusz, András and Emilia: I thought you were talking about a 100% Greek story since I read that: "I remember a young scientist from Greece who did not accept a Hungarian short scholarship about 4-5 years ago because it was not high enough to cover also the charges of her boy friend. " I apologize for this misunderstanding and I feel sorry for it.

What an interesting discussion, I totally agree - there is a danger with all the funding cuts for universities... there is a need to be creative in the way we seek funding... it is becoming more and more difficult... unless you are very well established it would be difficult to have funding...

Any suggestions?

Mr. Bozsik, the 'self-funding' encompasses those students which work to pay their educations (as your daughter) as well as the so-called 'rich' students according your statement. Actually it does'n no matter from where come the money. The question is what the students received as quality of education versus the funding and which personal qualities, knowledge, experience and contributions they objectively have, claiming for professional realization on the base of the mentioned format A4 (i.e. diplom for educational and academic degree).

In this respect your statement is a very nice moral support of one father towards his daughter. All we as parents usually do the same. The question is how 'objectively' is our evaluation for the talants and persunal qualities of our children. The pre-exponent of their potentials and talants which they actually possess, and statements for promising perspectives for their professional realization, I found as among the big mistakes in the family-education. Even in the cases when the parents and the children have interests in same professional areas.

If the case of your daughter is different. And she achieve a successful professional realization, than you are a lucky father, which have a really talanted daughter.

Some researchers might be self-funding - that is what I did at the beginning... but, came to learn the hard lesson that I need to search for funding for government bodies... and actually, this is one of the requirements for promotion - if you do not have grants... you will not be promoted!

So, it is not only funding it is prestige too! -:(

Regards

A comment on: "science is more passion, less profession" (Emilia Mikołajewska)

That's a fact in most Europe, science is less a true profession, and more like a vocation, a selfless act of creation. However, that's wrong for the following reasons:

1. Attracting excellence by universities is less likely, as universities cannot compete for the best young people, especially pragmatic ones.

2. Lack of pragmatism from recruitment on, diminishes universities ability to produce usable research.

The lack of any kind of pragmatism in research is evident when "scientometry" is scrutinized. Publication and citations are the target of researchers worldwide, both being completely irrelevant in business-world.

Targeting irrelevant goals, with people deemed to lack pragmatism, universities hope to achieve progress, but push towards systemic doom.

Politicians sense that tear between universities and the real economy, and budget higher education accordingly.

Dear Ms. Ivanova,

Everybody can be partial against his/her children. The point is not the relationship (certainly, each of my words can be dubious ) but the performance: 3 MA finished with good results, 3 years of PhD performed well and her working every day for not money but for performing fine and get good results.

You have forgotten only two things the personnel interest for a subject and the sacrifice for implementing it. If somebody gets easily the opportunity for studying (all the same who has paid for it, the state or the wealthy parents) cannot evaluate as well the possibility and also the passion for the subject is not proved.

I stress again not my personnel example is important. I have known many talented students who tried to get a PhD scholarship but in vain. Many of them had no chance to realise his/her desire. And I have seen many mediocre PhD students with official and high support who will never became a real scientist but will stumble at the limit of pseudo-scientific margin.

I repeat I cannot see proven that self-founded students perform weaker. However, there is an opportunity of failure when self-funding cannot allow to use the necessary facilities and materials but this is not a mistake of the persons in question.

Dear colleagues, I am very pleasantly surprised by your intense discussions and very good quality responses! Although sometimes we do have a very harsh discussions, it raises the quality of this thread! Thanks!

@Demetris. No problem. Have a nice day :)

Dear Andras, I highly appreciate your knowledge of classics. I agree, that we, researches, are able to use aphorisms as an allegorical portrayal in some abstract metaphorical sense.The aim is to prove the true facts.Well, hope, being a key word, is an emotion, which is positively painted, connected with the expectation of satisfaction of NEEDS, as well as a philosophical, religious, cultural concept, connected with understanding of human state of mind, experiencing this emotion. In other words, 'the entering, leave your hopes!"Or "there is no more ridiculous, than a vain hope". Or to Francis Beckon,"hope is a good breakfast, but a bad supper" To Russians, "Even if you are trampled in the mud, reach up to skies!"

Dear Irina,

Have you meant Francis Bacon the state man and philosopher? Unfortunately, I have not known this saying of him. Regrettably, many young men and women should be satisfied with the hope as a poor breakfast and they cannot even dream of a supper.

Going back to literature I like very much Russian literature mainly Mikhail Bulgakov and Vladimir Arsenev. From the Master and Margarita many quotes are used as famous sayings like

“- And now tell me, why is it that you use me words "good people" all the time? Do you call everyone that, or what?

- Everyone, - the prisoner replied. - There are no evil people in the world.”

(- А теперь скажи мне, что это ты все время употребляешь слова добрые

люди"? Ты всех, что ли, так называешь?

- Всех, - ответил арестант, - злых людей нет на свете.)”

or

“Love leaped out in front of us like a murderer in an alley leaping out of nowhere, and struck us both at once. As lightning strikes, as a Finnish knife strikes! She, by the way, insisted afterwards that it wasn’t so, that we had, of course, loved each other for a long, long time, without knowing each other, never having seen each other… ”

This is simply breathtaking.

Dear Irina, you have a way of putting across your 'anguish' eloquently!

I can understand that in some parts of the world, science and scientific pursuit for the sake of science may not find state funding to the extent that is required. Private funding may also be directed only to those who find an commercially viable idea to sell to them. The resultant frustration in the minds of those who genuinely want to satiate their thirst for knowledge but unable due to lack of funding appears justifiable. Instead of being philosophical about it, there is aneed to look at what is possible.

First, I am not trying to be 'optimistic' but there is an old saying that what can not be cured must be endured. If I am unable to find an institution or government support that would fund my research either at home or abroad, then I must reconcile to my life and pursue what is best for me under the circumstances. The lack of fund for my 'research ' is not going to make me go mad. rather, it would remind myself constantly to keep in touch with my passion in the best way possible.The story of Emilia at the top of this discussion is a standing example of such a case. We all agree that she is as much a scientist as any other would ever be known!

Second, If I am successful in getting the funding abroad, I need not pretend 'patriotism' to shirk that opportunity. As people of science, we belong to the world. Yes, it would be nice if you could be in your homeland too. But not every country in the world has enough wherewithal to support research to infinity. And, after I succeed in reaching where I wish to, my country would only be glad to take me back in, in any case.

The way the world is going, there are scores of institutions, national, private and international, who have funds to propagate research. Perhaps a potential researcher has to widen his search further!

Have a great day! And, Merry Christmas!!

Dear Professor Ljubomir Jacić,

If we look in current situation most of the countries have opened education sector like any other sector. Opening education sector for private has an added value of competitiveness of attracting students with good education facilities, maintaining standards in turn their booming the business. But it makes more difficult for economically handicapped education seekers.

Happy Christmas to everyone!