both of you are right (at least in part).... Problems I have with your suggestions:
(not to teach you!)
1) @Parham: if you have diluted your original mixture (as you wrote: "and after adding more than 5L [NB: 5 LITERS!!] of acetic acid 0.4 M solution to 80 ml of sodium acetate 0.4, the acetate buffer with the pH of 3 was achieved!" ) this way to end up with a pH of 3, you missed your goal to have a 0.4M buffer solution.
2) The principal premise of a buffer is "to exert buffer capacity over a certain range of pH", and therfore there are buffer solutions with different composition (ingredients) to achieve such: e.g.:
3) as you can see, usually Sodium acetate/acetic acid buffer system is ideally when buffering range is within 3.7 to 5.6.
4) therefore Rastislav is right in two ways: i) for a "functional buffer solution at pH 3.0" one better uses perhaps a citric acid/sodium citrate buffer and ii) perhaps also concerning the molarity of the buffer solution (dissociation).
5) Nevertheless there exist some recipes (or at least one) for Acetate buffer solution(s) (Sodium acetate/Acetic acid) for pH 3.0, unfortunately only for Molarity = 0.1 M or 0.2 M. I do not know whether one can use "similar" volumetric calculations if using 0.3 M stock solutions:
Acetate buffer solutions pH 3 - 6 ³
Make up the following solutions (1) 0.1M acetic acid (2) 0.1M sodium acetate (tri-hydrate) (13.6g / l) Mix in the following proportions to get the required ph
pH vol. of 0.1M acetic acid vol. of 0.1M sodium acetate
3 982.3 mls 17.7 mls
4 847.0 mls 153.0 mls
5 357.0 mls 643.0 mls
6 52.2 mls 947.8 mls
or:
SODIUM ACETATE; PH 3.6–5.6, PKA = 4.76
Combine the following proportions of 0.1N acetic acid and 0.1N sodium acetate (Pearse, 1980).
acetic acid sodium acetate pH
185 15 3.6
176 24 3.8
164 36 4.0
147 53 4.2
126 74 4.4
102 98 4.6
80 120 4.8
59 141 5.0
42 158 5.2
29 171 5.4
19 181 5.6
or:
Acetate Buffer (only down to a pH of 3.6, this also in concordance with Rastislavs suggestion)
Stock Solutions:
A: 0.2 M solution of acetic acid (11.55 ml in 100 ml of distilled water)
B: 0.2 M solution of sodium acetate (16.4 g of C2H3O2Na or 27.2 g of C2H3O2Na·3H2O in 1000 ml of distilled water)
x ml of A plus y ml of B and diluted to a total of 100 ml with distilled water:
certainly would be an option, but unfortunately we do not know about the real purpose of nedding and/or using Acetate Buffer pH 3.0.
I wave downvoting the question or even the reply of Parham (because the attempt really is of no value at all) since the matter really is too important to be deleted from the topic "buffers" and/or buffer preparation.
Sources I have included, others from web-files (I would have to dig for their original URL).
Regards,
Wolfgang
NB: if those columns will get chaotic after adding my answer here, I should post another reply including an attached pdf to this thread)
It is imposible to prepare a buffer with pH 3 from acetic acid, or from its mixture with sodium acetate, regardless their ratio or concentrations. The reason is low dissociation constant of CH3COOH, aproximately equal to 1.8 x 10-5 . Off more, sodium acetate dissolved in water is hydrolyzed to NaOH /strong base/ and CH3COOH /weak acid/, and pH of its solution is over 7.
Best regards.
Note: you should rather use a mixture of 0.1M citric acid /a/ with 0.2M Na2HPO4 /b/ . Mix 15.89 ml of solution /a/ with 4.11 ml of solution /b/. The pH in this case is 3.00 in temperature interval from 15 to 30 oC.
Thank you very much for your response. I just made two separate solutions of acetic acid and sodium acetate with molarity of 0.4. Then I chose 80 ml of sodium acetate 0.4 M as base (pH was over 8). Then I add acetic acid 0.4 M solution to it dropwise (Titration). After about 10 minutes, I found out that the pH was going down very slowly, So I speed up the adding of acetic acid and after adding more than 5L of acetic acid 0.4 M solution to 80 ml of sodium acetate 0.4, the acetate buffer with the pH of 3 was achieved! It was the real buffer, cause the pH was resisting as hell!
Once again I want to thank you and appreciate your time.
What have you used to determine the pH, was it a pH meter? Was the instrument calibrated on some reference buffer in and acidic region of pH /0 to 7 pH units/? Youll save much time and chemicals when using that citrate 0.1M / disodium phosphate 0.2M mixed buffer as I advised to you.
both of you are right (at least in part).... Problems I have with your suggestions:
(not to teach you!)
1) @Parham: if you have diluted your original mixture (as you wrote: "and after adding more than 5L [NB: 5 LITERS!!] of acetic acid 0.4 M solution to 80 ml of sodium acetate 0.4, the acetate buffer with the pH of 3 was achieved!" ) this way to end up with a pH of 3, you missed your goal to have a 0.4M buffer solution.
2) The principal premise of a buffer is "to exert buffer capacity over a certain range of pH", and therfore there are buffer solutions with different composition (ingredients) to achieve such: e.g.:
3) as you can see, usually Sodium acetate/acetic acid buffer system is ideally when buffering range is within 3.7 to 5.6.
4) therefore Rastislav is right in two ways: i) for a "functional buffer solution at pH 3.0" one better uses perhaps a citric acid/sodium citrate buffer and ii) perhaps also concerning the molarity of the buffer solution (dissociation).
5) Nevertheless there exist some recipes (or at least one) for Acetate buffer solution(s) (Sodium acetate/Acetic acid) for pH 3.0, unfortunately only for Molarity = 0.1 M or 0.2 M. I do not know whether one can use "similar" volumetric calculations if using 0.3 M stock solutions:
Acetate buffer solutions pH 3 - 6 ³
Make up the following solutions (1) 0.1M acetic acid (2) 0.1M sodium acetate (tri-hydrate) (13.6g / l) Mix in the following proportions to get the required ph
pH vol. of 0.1M acetic acid vol. of 0.1M sodium acetate
3 982.3 mls 17.7 mls
4 847.0 mls 153.0 mls
5 357.0 mls 643.0 mls
6 52.2 mls 947.8 mls
or:
SODIUM ACETATE; PH 3.6–5.6, PKA = 4.76
Combine the following proportions of 0.1N acetic acid and 0.1N sodium acetate (Pearse, 1980).
acetic acid sodium acetate pH
185 15 3.6
176 24 3.8
164 36 4.0
147 53 4.2
126 74 4.4
102 98 4.6
80 120 4.8
59 141 5.0
42 158 5.2
29 171 5.4
19 181 5.6
or:
Acetate Buffer (only down to a pH of 3.6, this also in concordance with Rastislavs suggestion)
Stock Solutions:
A: 0.2 M solution of acetic acid (11.55 ml in 100 ml of distilled water)
B: 0.2 M solution of sodium acetate (16.4 g of C2H3O2Na or 27.2 g of C2H3O2Na·3H2O in 1000 ml of distilled water)
x ml of A plus y ml of B and diluted to a total of 100 ml with distilled water:
certainly would be an option, but unfortunately we do not know about the real purpose of nedding and/or using Acetate Buffer pH 3.0.
I wave downvoting the question or even the reply of Parham (because the attempt really is of no value at all) since the matter really is too important to be deleted from the topic "buffers" and/or buffer preparation.
Sources I have included, others from web-files (I would have to dig for their original URL).
Regards,
Wolfgang
NB: if those columns will get chaotic after adding my answer here, I should post another reply including an attached pdf to this thread)
According to the attached PDF (page 6), determination of azithromycin antibiotic concentration using spectrophotometric method, needs 0.4M Acetate buffer (pH 3).
I don't know if I can use any alternative buffers for this specific purpose and for this reason I am insisting on preparing exactly the reported buffer.
I have seen the notation (not only for azithromycin) in the pdf you enclosed previously.
As I said previously: “not to teach you”! for me it is not understandable how such a statement and instruction could be / was included in this textbook (and not only once!, see the following paragraphs for other antibiotics).
Fact is that has its “buffering capacity” between pH 3.6 and 5.6 according to most of the recipes/tables one can find.
Besides the achievable pH, additional issues certainly are ionic strength and dissociation (0.1M > 0.4M).
I won't dodge something here so I have checked on weekend several sources and articles by Googleing.
What I have found I attach in the separate pdf with my reply (just not to bother other viewers or posters)
You really helped me! Thank you very much. I just finished writing my thesis and I'm gonna have my defense session on Monday! I really appreciate your time for helping me.
I just googled < FRAP test > (because retirement for now 1 month made me a bit silly...) and guess what I found in one of the first results:
ex pdf: (available already on ResearchGate)
in: ANALYTICAL BIOCHEMISTRY 239, 70–76 (1996)
ARTICLE NO. 0292, by Iris F. F. Benzie*,1 and J. J. Strain
CITATION (p. 71):
PubMed: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8660627
I haven't (re-) calculated the measures given in Benzie and Strain's Article...but think for acatetate buffer there are calculatory tables available....
Best wishes and good luck - and naturally: HAppy, healthy, prosperous and success- and joyful NEW YEAR !
You can do a publications-Research [see in this or YOUR PROFILE in the upper menue line right to "JOBS",: find the scroll menue "search", indicate "publications" and insert at least 4-6 words of the title you are searching for...
The articele URL of BENZIE and STRAIN is: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/14539362_The_Ferric_Reducing_Ability_of_Plasma_FRAP_as_a_measure_of_antioxidant_power_The_FRAP_assay
I found another source, displaying the preparation/recipe of the buffer you need:
Go to: http://archive.lib.cmu.ac.th/full/T/2012/phars30312rp_ch3.pdf , find
3.4.3 Ferric reducing antioxidant power (FRAP assay) [42]
3.4.3.1 FRAP working solution preparation
(CTRL-F: and insert: acetate )
Citation:
Unfortunately I was not able to find an author or the title of the paperwork including that
I nevertheless ope that these two recipes I found give rise to successful preparations,
best regards and wishes,
Wolfgang
Article The Ferric Reducing Ability of Plasma (FRAP) as a measure of...
Yes, I could realize that most of the articles omit that little information about the preparation of the acetate that is less common from 0,1 or 0,2M as you said it before in this discussion.
I prepared as it was proposed from another source with 1,86g with anhydrous sodium acetate and 16 mL in 1000 mL of solution.
However the pH was close to 3,47. Because the desired pH is 3,6, I have had always the question if I can complete it with a little of 0,3 M of sodium acetate solution?
Hoping that you have a happy retirement and a new year full of joy and peace.
Your answer is the correct way of making Acetate buffer. However, I was wondering what if you start with a known concentration (say 0.2 M) of acetic acid and then adjust pH to the desired pH using NaOH, and subsequently dilute the solution using water to the desired molarity (say 0.1 M for acetate). Is this also a valid method of making acetate buffer, if not then why not?
I have a different problem. I have sodium acetate buffer of pH 5.2 and of 3M concentration. Now i want to use sodium acetate buffer of pH 5.2 but its concentration should be 0.2 M. Is it possible by dilution using water or acetic acid, please
What equation would be used for such problems, Please.