Hi Alexis, this is surely a good paper and a vital follow up at least for me in a Field Study work I undertook. I worked on the impact of the separation, on the church of Sweden, other religious denominations and the state. This was in 2009. I have posted this on this platform and you can refer to it ahead of the conference. The title is DECOUPLING CHURCH-STATE RELATION IN SWEDEN: A Brief Post-Mortem. Please let me know if you have any questions or comments. my email is [email protected]. Cheers.

Hi Fredrick,

Oh, such perfect timing; I will certainly read your paper long before the Nordic Conference!

Your field work was done 8 years after I completed fieldwork in Sweden (Lund) in connection with my dissertation so it will be extremely interesting for me from that standpoint also. (Incidentally, my dissertation is here on RG: "Legislative Terrorism: A Primer for the Non-Islamic State" and there is also a review of the dissertation included among Supplementary Material.)

Thanks, Fredrick!

Gwen

Thanks Gwen. Hope it serves you better. My work was a brief and not more detail because I had only six weeks. In any case I was a now perusing my masters programme back in Ghana and was now settling down to writing my thesis. Pardon me if most of the information and analyses are not up to standard. Obviously your work is detailed and contains the perspective of an insider. Mine will at least provide you with some leads to follow up certainly. Thank you. Fred

Gwen:

In the evolution of religions, particularly Judaeo-Christian religions, the excesses committed by some parties caused a deep fissure between sections of the people in the west. Thus it became imperative to divide State and Religion. Science too differed from religion and sided with the state. State/Science and Religion divide created balance for a certain amount of time. When the fissures became too wide, religion has taken a back seat and science/state has prevailed everywhere. The results are there for all to see. Church attendances have plummeted across europe, materialistic lifestyles are the clear goal of many people who have no clear purpose in life. Now Governments have again realized the value of religions in shaping the thoughts and actions of their citizens and are wooing religious institutions again. It is mainly due to the realisation that religions have a powerful sway over individuals and its necessary to be in the good books of religions. Its a love hate relationship and neither can successfully co-exist without the other.

IMHO When both arrive at a succesful balance, a third feature emerges, Spirituality.

Difference between religions and spirituality is given here from another thread.

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From another thread:

Spirituality is the science and practice of approaching and becoming One with the Spirit. We are currently descended souls embodied with a material body. Normally, at the most basic animal level, we assume we are the physical body and get carried away by our physical and mental personality, in pursuit of material pleasures. Its our duty and inevitable path to ascend and return to our Source. To the uninitiated, religions initially remind us that everything is not matter and material pleasures and that there are higher things to be considered. Spirituality then takes over the 'graduated' student and imparts the higher learning and discipline needed for the advanced student/disciple to ascend to the Spirit.(Disciple=Discipline).

Religions, as a rule, are one sided.

1. This is because they describe God and the means of attaining Him/Her/It from where they are, from their geographical location. From their perch, their view makes an angle with the Truth and this refracted truth is known as that religion. If the ray were straight and not refracted according to local customs and beliefs, their interpretation would be universal. But this is never so. ALL religions fail to be universal or catholic, because they interpret God according to their location in the world. So ALL religions fall short of the Truth/God in this regard. The Vedas declare that the glass bowl of Truth broke and many shards of Glass emerged, each claiming itself to be THE Truth, while being only PART of the Truth. So the Vedas go on to say that "What you ACCEPT to be the Truth and what you REJECT as the Truth, put TOGETHER, IS the Truth." So ALL religions are fragments of the same Truth claiming to be THE Truth. Therefore the Seers say " The Truth is One, the Wise call it by many names" or "There are many paths to the same Truth". So all religions are DESCRIPTIONS of the one Truth , but NOT the Truth.

2. But then, what is THE Truth? There cannot be many centers to a circle, only one exists, even if all claim to be the center. So there cannot be many Truths.

There is only ONE sun, and there is no American sun, or an Arabian sun. Or a Buddhist God or an Islamic God. In reality, there are no religions. Christ did not create Christianity. Many years after his death, his followers did. Same with all religions of the world. No so-called religion founder created any religion. They instructed their friends and followers to lead life in a particular manner, follow his teachings, to reach God/Truth. "I have found the Truth, and you can too".But after their passing, they were deified, huge statues and institutions created in their name, wars fought and religions were established. The universal teachings of love and forgiveness were discarded and the founder's personality concentrated upon, because practicing is difficult than preaching. They analyzed to see the differences with followers of other religions instead of seeing what is common.

3. But when all religions are studied inclusively and intuitively by the wise, trying to find commonalities instead of analyzing the differences, similar patterns begin to emerge, the differences, simply owing their origin to differences in location(space) and time, all revolving around a central Truth and ways of attaining the supreme goal, fall away to reveal the center.

4. The common basic theme of all religions is a description of the Creator(Spirit), the Creation(Matter) and the path to be followed by one to return to the Creator. They go on to give descriptions of the anatomy of the human body(Tree, Serpent, Garden..) to show that it is akin to the anatomy of the Universe and then declare that the path of return to God is superimposing the anatomy of the human on the anatomy of the universe to finally become One. This is achieved by stilling the mind from the influence of the external world perceived by the senses and then go deep within Oneself. Thus shutting out the external world, the internal world is explored to find the Soul within Oneself, the Center,and become One. The separative individual identity of "I" ness disappears to become "One"ness. This practice is known as meditation in Yoga. Jesus practiced it, so did John the Baptist, Krishna, Buddha, all yogis... But they realized that there is no "One Size Fits All". So different ways were prescribed to suit the worker, the priest, the man of the world....the paths of Service, Work, Love, Knowledge, Devotion, Singing/Chanting....among many to suit the many temperaments of men. "Different Strokes for Different Folks".This is the place of Religions of the world. All religions, even if they are distorted from the Central Truth, are only basic preparatory schools for later higher learning according to their own space and time. They prescribe to men what to do, and what not to do, basic hygiene, in body and mind... The novice students here are still evolving and their world appears to be the Center, thus giving rise to their One-sided picture(angle) of God. But for those who have evolved higher in Consciousness, and risen above space and time, and realized that all paths lead to the same Truth, the higher methods of meditation are prescribed, usually by a advanced Master who has previously advanced on the same path. In meditation,where space and time disappear, the individual soul is released from its individual and personality shackles and merges with the Universal Soul. Thus religions are a necessary evil on the path to truth. This 'evil' is necessary, just like the eggshell protects the chick until it hatches, and is then discarded, having served its purpose of protection in the beginning.

Simply put, religions are 'Patented' basic 'theoretical' studies whereas Spirituality is 'Open Source' 'practical' advanced studies conducted by oneself to attain Oneself. Since Spirituality is Open Source and has no major identifying signs(since "All is One"), it co-exists benignly within all major religions in different geographical and cultural locations, its practitioners silently going with the flow, wherever they are.

Distinguishing Factors: People practicing and identifying themselves with religions 'analyze' the differences with other religions since they identify themselves with their body, faith, leaders, food, practices... People identifying themselves with the Spirit see the common features in all religions and realize that everything is One.

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In the final analysis, Gwen, the state needs to socialize with the religious institutions for its own survival. Religions and Governments are both necessary evils. What is needed is that every individual governs himself and seeks the higher truth of the Spirit for him/herself. Thus both religions and governments are initial stepping stones to higher path of Spirituality. This will become evident in a few years time.

Hope this helps.

Regards

Raveendra, I thank you so much for this insight. I shall continue to study your verses in order to digest them completely. However, I want to share with you now a thought that continued to run through my head as I was reading; namely, that "religion is the discipline that studies spirituality." Raveendra, I really believe that the beauty of spirituality is that it does not require intellectual prowess. Indeed, some of the most spiritual people I know spend little or no time thinking about the structure of spirituality, which I suppose is a preoccupation with those who are desirous of being faithful to a particular religious worldview.

However, following a particular path to inner peace does not appear to be the modus operandi of the truly spiritual -- those individuals who seem to ooze spirituality and do so to such an extent that one experiences joy merely from being in their presence. I, for one, am glad that spirituality is not an intellectual or academic pursuit -- that for many humans living in very diverse cultures, spirituality is as natural as breathing.

This kind of spirituality, of course, is of no use to the state. Unlike organized religion, spirituality cannot be coopted to the service of the state or conscripted to fulfillment of the state's public policy agenda.

Gwen

Gwen,

"religion is the discipline that studies spirituality." is slightly off the mark, IMHO. All religions prepare people for a higher study by imparting basic knowledge of discipline and a rhythmic life in tune with nature's rhythms. Religions are like High school, while Spirituality is like advanced studies in a University. Many people unfortunately stop with High school.

You are right in saying that spirituality doesn't require intellectual prowess. Spirituality is for those who have evolved to higher consciousness levels, not intelligence levels. It is open source and accepts all those who are willing to work on themselves instead of others. That being said, Yoga is said to be also having three pathways-The path of Devotion, The path of Knowledge and the path of Service. People are made up of different temperaments and everyone can choose a pathway which suits his nature-Devotion, Knowledge, Service. Yoga and Zen masters are also emphasize on these three pathways and choose students according to the students mental make-up. While students in devotion and service paths do not need to be intellectual, the disciple on the Knowledge pathway is drawn to the 'why and 'how' of creation and seeks answers which are intellectually stimulating and satisfying.

You are right in saying that one feels calm being merely in their presence. They have crossed the levels which differentiates between people and are thus having no desire in their beings. Only infinite peace remains, which they share with their fellow beings. For example: In the pictures of the Dalai Lama, all the surrounding people are smiling and very cheerful. My master too is a advanced Guru who can magnetize the people around him merely by his presence and prayer, an experience not describable in words.

In all external appearances, the state seems opposed to such spiritual ways, but believe me, there are spiritual men and women, silently working in Governments to bring change in the world, influencing policy and interventions. Apparently, there are higher forces at work than greedy and insensitive governments. Spirituality is always a silent force.

Regards

Definitely it depends as many other issues in social sciences and identity studies on the contextual backgrounds. It is wise for decision-makers to construed the framework which adequately based context relevant experience. I think it is the best possible option to solve and tackle the issue you raised in your question.

I am constitutional lawyer thus my horizon exactly navigate to the constitutional doctrines and concepts, in this regard I think that the question you raised is especially important at the state or constitution building stage. When the drafters or fathers of new or existed states think and elaborate the politico-legal fundamentals so-called social or constitutional contracts for their states, nations and people. In this prism, I will offer you a brief global overview Religion-State Relations published last year by International Idea in the renewed series named constitution-building primers.

Religion-State Relations by Dawood Ahmed

http://www.idea.int/cbp/religion-state-relations.cfm

http://www.idea.int/cbp/loader.cfm?csModule=security/getfile&pageID=65975

Sincerely,

Karlo

Karlo,

Thank you so much for your thoughtful answer and the citations, which I will check out and then get back to you with my comments on same.

Gwen