Thanks for sharing. I am not professional to this field, but, from a brief investigation, I came across this interesting quote, which I believe, is related to the question.

'Unexpressed emotions will never die. They are burried alive and will come forth later in uglier ways.'

-Sigmund Freud

Regards

Dear Barbara Sawicka

Thanks for nice input......in the same contest we can see human creature with reference to its abilities and inabilities at cosmos. but the difference is that in cosmos no external care and help is available for human creature in real. Evolution might accumulate some conscious chaos life forms but still many thing to do.....human must need to accept the realities of Natural Inborn Limitations and review the human mind base Dynamic Illusionary Remedies to develop its species for future challenges and step forward toward improvements.

Regards, 

In Q2-1, even one of the two compared, thought, seems to be mysterious from a neuroscientific point of view. Read the following interesting article:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/consciousness-and-the-brain/201202/what-is-thought

Dear Tatsuo Tabata

Thanks for very helping contribution. that article is written in 2012, might be some new discoveries and new knowledge over this topic can possibly get happen till now.

Anyhow the production of thoughts iin human brain at least give us a hint that Consciousness & Chaos is not outsourced, perhaps they are outcomeof specific cognitive & integrated combinational activity with in the matter.....more over it can be relative with core set of properties of matter......as for human its photo electric base by trigger of magnetism.

Human thoughts can be trigger by any outsourcing with in external environment but no evidence that they get in to brain by some unidentified sources with unidentified nature.

Regards,

Raja

Thanks for sharing. I am not professional to this field, but, from a brief investigation, I came across this interesting quote, which I believe, is related to the question.

'Unexpressed emotions will never die. They are burried alive and will come forth later in uglier ways.'

-Sigmund Freud

Regards

Dear Mario Russo

Thanks for nice contribution.

Emotions can be based on logic, in old ages the resposive power might get reduce but brain still produce many emotions, perhaps by none supportive body powers redirect the thought patterns more towards the spirituality or other product of thoughts. reduction in number of thought might can be one reason of less emotion in old ages, less availability of further thought experimentation can be another reason, already fixed behaviour in the box can be one more reason etc for old age emotional shifts.

Regards,

Dear Aristidis Matsoukis

Thanks for your contribution, very true but it address to bahior based on Emotional Easiness & Diseasiness (EED) by Sigmund Freud. we are also trying to see behind the emotion production and its basic philosophy.

Regards,

Dear Raja Khan,

Thank you for the information. This discussion thread is a good opportunity for me to be informed about this interesting topic.

Regards

Dear Raja Khan

Thank you for inviting me to participate in this discussion

In principle the question consists of two parts, I is not clear, probably my mistranslations, but in order to understand them, the paraphrased as follows:

Are there limitations birth emotions conditioned by nature?

What emotions, the dynamics of the illusions have remedies or medicine to change?

Based on its introduction, which bases its approach and according to the content of your publication, I beg to differ with respect to the message that exists in the bottom of it, the thesis that innate changes in the human being that manifest themselves at birth , they are determined by nature.

I think not in all cases with intellectual, emotional skills or disability, all manifestations and further development of them is conditioned by nature; Fortunately human intervention in both the dynamics of nature and social dynamics, can change in a positive direction such disabilities. Abundo in my comment below in more detail:

• I understand the background of its publication. The mind organized has to do with the perception of sensations from nature or the environment, which essentially are disorganized, and it is precisely the mental processing that gives them coherence and necessary for the understanding of the human order.
• When the mind, emotions, consciousness and spirit are not working in harmony, the result is a disorganized mind, with distorted perceptions, with little or no relation to the facts of the environment, and emotional impact not suitable to such perceptions.
• In other words, the mental dynamics and content of thought is altered, resulting in perceptions and delusional thoughts, illusions without justifiable basis and emotions overwhelmed in the form of anger, confusion, aggression, disorientation and fear: in other cases exaggerated or utopian optimism and illusory, and suicidal acts threatening the lives of people. We are then talking in the best of Neurosis and at worst a psychosis.
• On the other hand, the response of the mind (perceptions, thoughts and emotions) limitations birth to the Central Nervous System (CNS), may be wrong or inadequate. Knowing the degree of injury, type and location of damage limitation in SNC, you can predict the expected response.
• All this does not mean that the answer is determined, although some of it can be predicted, as the psychological or neurological response.
• That if they could be certain, are the environmental stimuli and to some extent, the stimuli emanating from the social context.
• Also, all people have a metabolic, biochemical or organic birth injury (neurological, metabolic and cognitive disabilities), psychological, emotional and intellectual response, once characterized his condition or illness; It can be predicted an external response in terms of behavior or learning, but even in these cases, one can say that organic answers are already determined by nature.
• Even in this type of people with disabilities from birth, some psychological, emotional, and cognitive skills, abilities change in the degree of development depending on the family environment and the type of education they have, which will make the big difference.
• As for "remedies" or drugs to modulate the functioning of the mind, the content of the thoughts and the kind of emotions, ranging from "Remedios" or non-pharmacological interventions, such as massage therapy, acupuncture, Reiki, cognitive therapy , psychotherapy, etc; or pharmacological interventions as "the active ingredients of herbal remedies", the effect of psychotropic medications such as tranquilizers, antidepressants and antipsychotics.

With all these remedies, non-pharmacological and pharmacological interventions are seeks as a goal, achieve mental-emotional, improved mood and adds balance, improve the quality of life.

regards

Dr. Jose Luis Garcia Vigil

Estimado Raja han

Gracias por invitarme a participar en esta discusión

En principio su pregunta compuesta en dos partes, no me queda clara, probablemente sean errores míos de traducción, pero con el fin de entenderlas, las parafraseo de la siguiente forma:

¿Existen al nacimiento limitaciones en las emociones condicionadas por la naturaleza?

¿En las emociones, la dinámica de las ilusiones tienen remedios o medicamentos para cambiarlas? 

Con base en su introducción, con la que fundamenta su planteamiento y de acuerdo al contenido de su publicación, me permito disentir respecto del mensaje que existe en el fondo del mismo, la Tesis de que las alteraciones innatas del ser humano que se manifiestan al nacimiento, están determinadas por la naturaleza. 

Me parece que no en todos los casos con discapacidad intelectual, emocional o en destrezas, todas las manifestaciones y desarrollo ulterior de las mismas está condicionada por la naturaleza; afortunadamente la intervención del hombre tanto en la dinámica de la naturaleza como en la dinámica social, puede modificar en sentido positivo dichas discapacidades. Abundo en mi comentario a continuación con mayor detalle:

• Entiendo el fondo de su publicación. La mente organizada tiene que ver con la percepción de sensaciones provenientes de la naturaleza o del medio ambiente, las cuales en esencia están desorganizadas, y es precisamente el procesamiento mental el que les da la coherencia y el orden necesario para la comprensión del ser humano. 
• Cuando la mente, las emociones, la consciencia y el espíritu no están funcionando en forma armónica, el resultado es una mente desorganizada, con percepciones desfiguradas, con poca o nula relación con los hechos del medio ambiente, y con repercusión emocional no adecuada a tales percepciones. 
• En otros términos, se altera la dinámica mental y el contenido del pensamiento, resultando en percepciones y pensamientos alucinatorios, ilusiones sin base justificable y emociones desbordadas en forma de ira, desorientación, agresividad, desorientación y miedo: en otros casos optimismo exagerado o utópico e ilusorio, y actos suicidas que pone en riesgo la vida de las personas. Estamos hablando entonces en el mejor de los casos de una Neurosis y en el peor de una Psicosis.
• Por otro lado, la respuesta de la mente (percepciones, pensamientos y emociones) ante limitaciones de nacimiento del Sistema Nervioso Central (SNC), puede ser equivocada o inadecuada. Conociendo el grado de lesión, tipo de limitación y ubicación del daño en SNC, se puede predecir la respuesta esperada.
• Todo ello no implica que la respuesta está determinada, aunque algo de ello se pueda predecir, según sea la respuesta psicológica o neurológica.
• Los que si pudieran estar determinados, son los estímulos del medio ambiente y hasta cierto punto, los estímulos emanados del contexto social.
• Por otro lado, todas las personas que tienen una lesión metabólica, bioquímica u orgánica de nacimiento (discapacidades neurológicas, metabólicas y cognitivas), la respuesta psicológica, emocional e intelectual, una vez caracterizado su padecimiento o enfermedad; se puede predecir una respuesta externa en términos de conducta o aprendizaje, pero tampoco en estos casos, se puede decir que las respuestas orgánicas ya están determinadas por la naturaleza.
• Incluso, en este tipo de personas con discapacidad desde el nacimiento, algunas capacidades psicológicas, emocionales, cognitivas y destrezas, cambiarán en el grado de desarrollo dependiendo del medio familiar y el tipo de educación que tengan, lo cual hará la gran diferencia.
• En cuanto a "Remedios" o Medicamentos para modular el funcionamiento de la mente, el contenido de los pensamientos y el tipo de emociones, van desde "Remedios" o intervenciones no farmacológicas, como la masoterapia, la acupuntura, el Reiki, la terapia cognitiva, la psicoterapia, etc; o las intervenciones farmacológicas como "los principios activos de los remedios herbolarios", el efecto de medicamentos psicotrópicos como los tranquilizantes, antidepresivos y antipsicóticos. 

Con todos estos remedios, intervenciones farmacológicas y no farmacológicas, se busca como meta, lograr el equilibro mental-emocional, mejoría del talante y en suma, mejorar la calidad de vida.

Saludos

Dr. José Luis García Vigil

Dear Dr Jose Luis Garcia Vigil

Thanks, its very helpful answer. its based on possible understanding with help of mind sciences. I think once again we try to cover up the Designing limitations with help of justification from psychological sciences. for example the concept of spirit is not scientifically proven yet. lets define first the core parameters for mind working; social, educational, psychological environments have the triggers, but the reaction of mind is not independent from them, they really matters...... beside them or by none presence of them as well, perhaps human have natural inborn limitations regardless of provision of surroundings as well.

There should be some real justification needed to investigate the actual reasons of "human stupidity"........ its not only based on specific mindset product, as death need some causes behind it like natural, accident, heart failure etc, but death it self is a system and full-fledged phenomenon. 100 % fulfilment of emotion can not sustain even in ideal condition, we can not stop thinking and investigation just due to that human have its satisfactory answers or facilitating life style. still we are not satisfied, we need to see the reality at the level of creation & designing.

Regards,

Raja

Dear Raja NA Khan

It does not seem to me that the psychological approach of the mind tries to cover the limitations of design. Immediately and in an almost natural way, the question "Who? Of God? From Man?

If the designer and the believer is God (according to our religion), then there is no point of discussion, religion and its precepts are accepted or unacceptable dogmas (believed or not believed). End of discussion.

If we are talking about man as a researcher and creator of knowledge, the design to conduct research in this matter is the phenomenological perspective of mind, mental dynamics and neuro-physiology; In addition to the cognitive sciences.

At present, the "Concept of Spirit and Consciousness" and the "Concepts of Aesthetic, Ethical and Moral Values" from the perspective of Phenomenology and Axiology can not be directly demonstrated by scientific method.

In an indirect way we can know what they are: Consciousness, Spirit and Values; Conceptualizing and defining in operative form some of its characteristics to transform them into qualitative variables of categorical type or nominal, in order to study them by means of the scientific method. In this case, since there are no instruments to measure such variables, the instruments of measurement and evaluation have to be designed and validated through methodological research.

Annex one publication as an example of how to design and validate an instrument to measure and evaluate ethical and moral values, in medical education and from the point of view of medical students.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/297729850_The_perception_of_ethics_from_the_point_of_view_of_medical_students

regards

Dr. José Luis García Vigil

Estimado Raja NA Khan

No me parece que el enfoque psicológico de la mente trate de cubrir las limitaciones del diseño. Inmediatamente y en forma casi natural, surge la pregunta ¿Diseño de Quién? ¿De Dios? ¿Del Hombre?

Si quien diseña y crea es Dios (según nuestra religión), entonces no hay punto de discusión, la religión y sus preceptos son dogmas que se aceptan o no se aceptan (se cree o no se cree). Fin de la discusión.

Si estamos hablando del hombre como investigador y creador del conocimiento, el diseño para realizar una investigación en esta materia, es la perspectiva fenomenológica de la mente, la dinámica mental y la neuro-fisiología; amén de las ciencias cognitivas.

En la actualidad el "Concepto de Espíritu y Consciencia" y los "Conceptos de Valores Estéticos, Éticos y Morales" desde la perspectiva de la Fenomenología y de la Axiología, no se pueden demostrar directamente por medio del método científico.

En forma indirecta podremos saber lo que son: Consciencia, Espíritu y Valores; conceptuando y definiendo en forma operativa algunas de sus características para transformarlas en variables cualitativas de tipo ordinal o nominal categóricas, a fin de estudiarlas por medio del método científico. En este caso, como no existen instrumentos para medir dichas variables, se tienen que diseñar y validar los instrumentos de medición y evaluación por medio de una investigación metodológica.

Anexo una publicación como ejemplo de como diseñar y validar un instrumento para medir y evaluar valores éticos y morales, en materia de educación médica y desde el punto de vista de los estudiantes de medicina.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/297729850_The_perception_of_ethics_from_the_point_of_view_of_medical_students

Saludos

Dr. José Luis García Vigil

Article [The perception of ethics from the point of view of medical students]

Dear Dr  Jose Luis Garcia Vigil

Thanks a lot for further deep insight. its very helping.

As for as the concept of gods, spirits are concerned then it had been discussed and questioned in a past article. Now its try to find out that when consciousness get turned/ accumulate/ centered etc via evolution / creation etc in shape of senses and human mind then what are the limitations left in this design and how human can cope them up. its correct that scientifically proven laws & mythologies takes time to get established but imagination base on theoretical work is faster for developing new knowledge & dimensions.

Another possible aspect can be that how to fully explore the mind and then see how its working get limitations in an ideal conditions.

Hope it satisfy.

Regards,

Raja

Article Beyond & Behind the Concepts of Gods, Pray, Mythologies & Ex...

 Dear All 

Hope this link will be interesting

Regards,

http://www.sciencealert.com/harvard-scientists-think-they-ve-pinpointed-the-neural-source-of-consciousness

Dear NA Raja Khan

Reading again his Essay or "Brainstorm" about God, Mythologies and Religious Beliefs, I still consider that it is a text with messages that need to be rearranged after recapitulating several ideas and again make some reflections to the reflections (Reflections) already expressed in the text

Indeed the content of this article is related to some of the answers given in the discussion forum on the concept of God, Gods and Religions.

It also stimulates my thinking about the evolution of consciousness, beliefs and creativity of human beings throughout their evolution and maturation as a species. If particularize first in the first pro-human living beings, the imperative to believe in gods related to natural phenomena, both those who caused astonishment, as he perceived as beneficial for clan or tribe or those who intimidated him by destroying his environment, make them feel pain, physically harm or "kill" their peers.

These pro-human to evolve and mature as homo sapiens, mainly in its anatomical and functional brain complexity, develops and redefine their physical, mental and emotional experiences, creating Legends, Myths and specific Gods for relevant for him aspects of nature God (a) of rain, thunder god, god of the ocean, God (a) of the earth goddess of fertility, etc.

There in antiquity, especially in the time of Roman and Greek Classical culture, speculation based on anthropological and archaeological evidence that the brains of humans makes about 10,000 to 5000 BC, was Bicameral type without great development limit and filter that modulates the sensations and perceptions of the left brain and the right, without discrimination mixing magical, intuitive and belief of the right brain, rational and logical left brain thinking thoughts.

Therefore their magical experiences and beliefs were so real to them, as they had during their dreams and experiencing in everyday waking thoughts and behavior in their social and professional role of his time (emperor, military, gladiator, legislator farmer, sailor, carpenter, craftsman, trader, etc.). Hence the need to learn to live with magical and factual thoughts, beliefs and intuitions vs objective reasoning and common sense.

In more recent times, as contemporary twentieth century to date, we still wonder how we can live with religious beliefs and thoughts and thoughts, experiences, behaviors and scientific / technological development. I think that coexistence is possible in harmony without madness and if a full spiritual and scientific creativity and technological innovation.

On the specific issue related to this article and developing in Research Gate, I will issue these thoughts and others I expressed the possibility of coexistence Science-Religion.

I'm glad our agreement on some aspects of mental and spiritual life (which can also be religious). At present, the core of humanity, spirituality, consciousness, reflection and moral values and ethical principles, can hardly make tangible and objective, although we do not doubt its existence for the senses.

Slowly the little tangible understanding of these phenomena from the biophysical point of view, will be easier to identify, observe, measure and evaluate: alongside the scientific and technological progress, the hand of their methods and validated instruments.

Agree that the human race can only survive if it gets progressively, according to evolve their psyche, consciousness and creativity, to the creative entities that exist in the universe. Initially started in the land where we know that there are beings like us, in the rest of the universe, it is likely that there are planets inhabited by beings similar to us, other life, or definitely not there any known life with which we can communicate mind to mind and consciousness to consciousness, in order to enhance our creativity.

Another way to improve our creativity on earth is through the use of technology, which functions as the brain prosthesis (Roger Bartra's Theory of the Exocerebro, a Mexican scientist and anthropologist, published in two works "Brain and Freedom" and "Anthropology of Brain "), and of course of its operation to the maximum critical level and that is the mind and the conscience. On the other hand, it is well known that mind, consciousness and creativity work on two levels, conscious and unconscious, with multiple connection and making explicit their ideas, thoughts and actions when conditions lead to learning, invention, Research and technological innovation

About the content of your publication and texts of our comments, I remember a great work of Issac Asimov, "Foundation and Empire", "First Foundation", "Second Foundation" and "Back to First Foundation", where the theme developed is the parallel development of the human psyche and technology to make predictions about the future of the land, destruction or inability to sustain life on the planet as well as the search for planets in the universe, similar to the earth and they could be colonized by man, starting in expanding our solar system and planetary migration wave to the ends of the known and unknown universe. Great work of science fiction highly recommended.

regards

Dr. Jose Luis Garcia Vigil

Estimado Raja NA Khan

Leyendo nuevamente su Ensayo o "Lluvia de ideas" respecto de Dios, Mitologías y Creencias Religiosas, sigo considerando que es un texto con mensajes que requieren reordenarse después de recapitular varias ideas y hacer otra vez algunas reflexiones a las reflexiones (Retroflexiones) ya expresadas en el texto

Efectivamente el contenido de este artículo tiene relación con algunas de las respuestas emitidas en el foro de discusión respecto del Concepto de Dios, Dioses y Religiones.

También estimula mi reflexión respecto de la evolución de´la consciencia, creencias y creatividad del ser humano a lo largo de su evolución y maduración como especie. Si particularizamos primero en los primeros seres vivos pro-humanos, el imperativo de creer en dioses relacionados con los fenómenos naturales, tanto los que le causaban asombro, como los que percibía como benéficos para su clan o tribu o aquellos que le intimidaban por destruir su entorno, hacerlos sentir dolor, dañar físicamente o "matar" a sus semejantes.

Estos pro-humanos al evolucionar y madurar como homo-sapiens, principalmente en su complejidad anatómica y funcional del cerebro, elabora y reelaboran sus experiencias físicas, mentales y emocionales, creando Leyendas, Mitos y Dioses específicos para aspectos relevantes para él, de la naturaleza: Dios(a) de la lluvia, Dios del trueno, Dios del Oceano, Dios(a) de la tierra, Diosa de la fertilidad, etc.

Existe en la Antigüedad, principalmente en la época de la cultura Romana y Griega Clásicas, la especulación con base en evidencias antropológicas y arqueológicas, que el cerebro de los humanos de hace aproximadamente 10,000 a 5000 años A.C, era de tipo Bicameral, sin gran desarrollo del límite y filtro que modula las sensaciones y percepciones del hemisferio cerebral izquierdo y el derecho, mezclando sin discriminar los pensamientos mágicos, intuitivos y de creencias del cerebro derecho, con los pensamientos racionales y lógicos del cerebro izquierdo.

Por tanto sus vivencias mágicas y creencias eran tan reales para ellos, como las que tenían durante sus sueños y las que experimentaban en la vigilia cotidiana de sus pensamientos y conductas en su rol social y laboral de su época (emperador, militar, gladiador, legislador, agricultor, marino, carpintero, artesano, comerciante, etc.). De ahí la necesidad de aprender a convivir con pensamientos mágicos y fácticos, con creencias e intuiciones vs raciocinio y sentido común objetivo.

En épocas más recientes, como la contemporánea del siglo XX a la fecha, todavía nos preguntamos como podemos convivir con creencias y pensamientos religiosos y con pensamientos, experiencias, conductas y desarrollo científico/tecnológico. Creo que es factible dicha convivencia en forma armónica sin llegar a la locura y si a una plena espiritualidad y creatividad científica e innovación tecnológica.

En la cuestión específica relacionada con este artículo y en desarrollo en Research Gate, emitiré estas reflexiones y otras que expresé de la posibilidad de convivencia Ciencia-Religión.

Me alegro que tengamos cierto acuerdo sobre algunos aspectos de la vida mental y espiritual (que también puede ser religioso). En la actualidad, el núcleo de la humanidad, la espiritualidad, la conciencia, la reflexión y los valores morales y los principios éticos, difícilmente pueden ser tangibles y objetivos, aunque no dudamos de su existencia para los sentidos.

Poco a poco la poca comprensión tangible de estos fenómenos desde el punto de vista biofísico, será más fácil de identificar, observar, medir y evaluar: junto con el progreso científico y tecnológico, la mano de sus métodos e instrumentos validados.

Estoy de acuerdo en que la raza humana sólo puede sobrevivir si consigue progresivamente evolucionar su psique, conciencia y creatividad, a las entidades creativas que existen en el universo. Iniciado en la tierra donde sabemos que hay seres como nosotros, en el resto del universo, es probable que haya planetas habitados por seres similares a nosotros, otras vidas o definitivamente que no haya ninguna vida conocida con la que podamos comunicarnos de mente a mente y de conciencia a conciencia, con el fin de mejorar nuestra creatividad.

Otra forma de mejorar nuestra creatividad en la tierra, es con el uso de la tecnología, que funciona como la prótesis cerebral (Teoría del Exocerebro de Roger Bartra, científico y antropólogo mexicano, publicada en dos obras "Cerebro y Libertad" y "Antropología del Cerebro"), y por supuesto de su funcionamiento al máximo nivel crítico y que es la mente y la conciencia. Por otro lado, es bien sabido que la mente, la conciencia y la creatividad, trabajan en dos niveles, el consciente y el inconsciente, con conexión múltiple y haciendo explícitas sus ideas, pensamientos y acciones cuando las condiciones conducen al aprendizaje, la invención, la investigación y innovación tecnológica.

Sobre el contenido de su publicación y los textos de nuestros comentarios, recuerdo una gran obra de Issac Asimov, "Fundación e Imperio", "Primera Fundación", "Segunda Fundación" y "Volver a la Primera Fundación", donde el tema desarrollado es el El desarrollo paralelo de la psique humana y la tecnología para hacer predicciones sobre el futuro de la tierra, la destrucción o incapacidad para sostener la vida en el planeta, así como la búsqueda de planetas en el universo, similares a la tierra y que podrían ser colonizados por el hombre, Comenzando en la expansión de nuestro sistema solar y la migración planetaria onda a los extremos del universo conocido y desconocido. Gran trabajo de ciencia ficción altamente recomendado.

Saludos

Dr. José Luis García Vigil

Dear Dr Jose Luis Garcia Vigil

Thanks a lot for your deep insight about the article regarding different concepts of gods etc..... It really helping. Perhaps today's science fiction can be consider reality tomorrow. Scientific way of searching and understanding is entirely different from religions. Its better to say that where religious knowledge get end, from there scientific explanations & explorations starts. We can observe this phenomenon in history many times. Science & logical thinking remain continue till the next religion get claim to come and so on.....Question is that how long more ?.

Basics & foundations get change when human adopt something after search & research by science and after spoon feeding like religions. Any how many things might get exists beyond to conscious chaos matrix and might be spirit will be one of them but still question is that how it prove scientifically the need and working of gods in universal mechanisms , even come at down level then any functional aspect over to biological medium, any other phenomenon in which some external mega power is involved etc plz?

Regards,

Raja

Dear All

Hope this article will be helpful

http://m.pnas.org/content/early/2017/02/14/1619316114

Regards,

http://m.pnas.org/content/early/2017/02/14/1619316114

Article NILDIR MATRIX INDEX: Natural Inborn Limitations (NIL) & Dyna...