Is it from the fault that the earthquake arises or is it from the earthquake that the fault arises?
Neither one nor the other.
For the occurrence of an earthquake, you need to apply the work A = F * L.
The tectonic fault does not produce work. It's just a crack.
Earthquake mechanism (we do not consider mantle earthquakes):
If there are "living" cracks on the ground perpendicular to the work being performed, then the work does not generate an earthquake.
The reverse statement may be true.
Sincerely, Boris Kapochkin.
Mauro Lucarini
Institute for Environmental Protection and Research (ISPRA)
Dear Mauro: Very interesting question.
"Natural" earthquakes are the result of sudden movement along faults "within" the Earth. The movement releases stored-up ‘elastic strain’ energy in the form of seismic waves, which propagate through the Earth and cause the ground surface to shake. Such movement on the faults is generally a response to long-term deformation and the buildup of stress.
Note, please, that I use "natural", "within" and "elastic strain" as ambiguous words: remember that exists "induced" earthquakes directly or indirectly caused by anthropic activities such as hydraulic fracturing or by disposal of waste fluids, earthquakes at more than 640 km depth, and not that all release energy is elastic. Take in mind that the largest earthquake induced by fluid injection that has been documented in the scientific literature was a magnitude 5.8 earthquake on September 23, 2016, in central Oklahoma.
The long-term means geological times, of course.
Before an earthquake, the buildup of stress in the rocks on either side of a fault results in incremental deformation. Eventually, this deformation exceeds the frictional force holding the rocks together and a sudden slip occurs along the fault. This releases the accumulated stress and the rocks on either side of the fault return to their original shape (elastic rebound) but are offset on either side of the fault.
Fault parameters are important in earthquake investigation. The relationships between moment magnitude (Mw) and fault parameters including subsurface/surface rupture length, downdip rupture width, rupture area, and average slip over the fault surface could be estimated based on seismological theory or empirical data, such as subsurface imaging by Exploration geophysics, such as gravity, magnetic or seismic. On that hand, the 3D seismic prospection for oil and gas searching maybe is the better picture of a fault system, both, non-present-day active fault systems and present-day active fault systems.
I use excess 3D seismic images from the Neuquina basin, Argentina, and USGS data analysis on 6 February 2023, at 04:17 TRT (01:17 UTC), an Mw 7.8 earthquake struck southern and central Turkey and northern and western Syria to derive empirical relationships between moment magnitude (Mw) and fault parameters relationships that I share in the picture attached.
I hope my answer can help you. Best regards, Mario E. Sigismondi.
Dear Mauro Lucarini ,
The fault does not create an earthquake, but earthquakes do create faults... As you well know, the situation is much more complicated than that.
Regards,
Laszlo
Mario Emilio Sigismondi thank you for you interesting answer.
Regards,
Mauro
Here you can find a very interesting article:
Article The strength of earthquake-generating faults
written by Alex Copley
This is not like the egg and the hen dilemma! The cause-effect relationship is terribly clear between fault and earthquake, although the ENGLISH LITERATURE has made a mess of this!!!!
The earthquake is no more than energy transmitted across the Earth as waves (of several types). If you recall the theory of the elastic rebound by Reid (1910), these waves are liberated or produced when the internal friction of a fault plane (surface) is surpassed by the accumulated long term deformation imposed by regional plate tectonics or stress field on a fault. So, it is WRONG to say that an earthquake of a given magnitude produced a (surface) rupture of a certain length or rupture area. In fact, the rupture of a fault plane area of a certain size generates a set of waves named EARTHQUAKE.
Franck A. Audemard Thank you very much for your reply.
Best Regards,
Mauro
The earthquake depends on the history of the place, and the place supports many interactions with phenomena of other nature at regional or even global level. One would be the electromagnetic stress field, which can precede and condition the future of the propagation of the elastic waves generated by the earthquake. This future can also lead to new preference directions for propagation and therefore to new breaks. By my opinion and google translation.
A locked fault in an area of relatively fast motion generates an earthquake. A moving fault does not produce a strong earthquake. But weak earthquake is possible. An earthquake can occur at the end of a mapped fault. So it is create new fault segment. An earthquake can occur outside of a mapped fault. But it is possible that it is there but not found.
Very interesting dialog:
“Earthquakes do create faults,” says László Attila Horváth.
“The rupture of a fault plane generates an earthquake,” says Franck A. Audemard.
The existence of a fault is a footprint that a break had taken place - and depending on whether continued stresses build up at that fault (or not) - another stress-releasing event (earthquake) would probably (or probably not) occur. Thinking about the “fault systems”, such as EAFS (East Anatolian Fault System, Turkey), are relative centers of seismic activity (shown in the attached map). The earthquakes and faults have relatively higher geometry confidence, but which one was the first maybe is more difficult to certify.
Franck´s opinion for me it is true when you are induced seismicity such as fracking: first, you broke the rock, and the fracture propagation generates a microseismicity or even seismicity that could potentially become an earthquake (induced).
The depth of the hypocenter is a critical factor to create a fault (László´s idea): the earthquakes that occur in the crust or upper mantle, which ranges from the earth's surface to about 800 kilometers deep occurs when the slab descends into the mantle, rheology changes (viscosity characteristics) cause the plate to bend and deform, and generates these earthquakes.
Best regards, Mario
The movement of the solid shell of the Earth along the surface of the asthenosphere forms faults because the solid shell must continuously adapt to the ellipsoid of the Earth's rotation. If the Earth were a spheroid, there would be no such thing and the network of rolomi would be constant in time.
Deformation waves take part in this process and destroy the solid shell, creating new faults in the direction of meridians and parallels.
I am attaching a fragment from my discussion "The aftershock theory has not yet been created, but the aftershock of the Turkish earthquake on February 6, 2023 was inevitable?". There is illustrative material.
"Geophysicists have an understanding of the mechanism and causes of earthquakes in the contact zones of tectonic plates. Here, earthquakes occur as a result of the spreading of tectonic plates. Geophysicists have an understanding of the mechanism but not the causes of earthquakes in transform fault zones. Geophysicists have no understanding of either the mechanism or causes of earthquakes with epicenters inside tectonic plates. There is no understanding of the causes of repeated strong shocks. They are simply called foreshocks and aftershocks. about the cause of the aftershock of the Turkish earthquake , there is information in my discussion "The earthquake in Turkey is a consequence of planetary scale geodeformations. Is the concept of stress accumulation before an earthquake wrong?". The theory is in my discussion "Ocean tides and deformations of the Earth's surface of tidal origin have different physics of the process. Why?".
I will give the actual data on earthquakes with a magnitude of more than seven in Turkey on February 6, 2023. Data from open sources on the Internet.
Judging by the Moment tensor map data, both earthquakes had the same Focal_mechanism - Left-lateral strike-slip. The first shock was caused by a shift in the direction southwest - northeast. The second shock is caused by a shift in the direction west - east. This was confirmed by the intensity maps of shaking from greenquakes.
With a vertical amplitude of semidiurnal tides in the solid body of the Earth from -13 to +23 cm cm during earthquakes, the indicated amplitudes of horizontal and vertical tidal displacements completely coincide. 12 hours after the aftershock, the amplitude of the vertical tidal displacement decreased only by 5% (it remained high).
Conclusion. While maintaining significant geodeformation energy throughout the whole day of February 6, which was caused by geodeformations on February 3 in changes in the gravitational field, the first earthquake significantly weakened (did not destroy) the tectonic structures of the Eastern Anatolian Fault (azimuth 45 degrees ). The aftershock was inevitable. When the tide in the solid body of the Earth repeated itself in phase and amplitude, an aftershock occurred under conditions of powerful geodeformations on a planetary scale. By the second earthquake, the tectonic structures of the Eastern Anatolian Fault were destroyed and transformed into structures with an azimuth of 90 degrees. The third earthquake was already inexpedient, although at 10 pm on February 6 there was quite a lot of energy.
Note. The tides in the solid body of the Earth deform the planet along the parallels and meridians and all existing fault systems (azimuths 17, 35, 45, 62, 77 degrees) transform into a system of block divisibility of the lithosphere 90 degrees."
Reid, H. F., Permanent displacements of the ground, in The California Earthquake of April 18, 1906, Report of the State Earthquake Investigation Commission, 1910, vol. 2, pp. 16-28
Reid H.F., The elastiс-rebound theory of earthquakes, Bulletin of the department of Geology. University of California Publication, 1911, vol.6, pp.413–444.
American geophysicist and surveyor Reid is one of the first to connect an earthquake with a fault/rupture more than 100 years ago. But most likely there are many other former scientific researchers who have long understood this.
Some people like to associate the mechanism of an earthquake with the earth's tide. It is quite plausible, but the largest tidal Earth's deformation occurs twice a day. The most destructive and dangerous earthquakes occur much less frequently. There are many other factors that provoke a mature seismic source. All of them play the role of a trigger. An earthquake can happen without a trigger. Simply as a result of reaching critical stresses for this local block of the earth's crust.
Some see earthquakes as a bomb and deformations of the earth's shape as a bomb fuse - a trigger. But then the trigger must have less power than the bomb.
Earth shape deformations and earthquakes are waves. The energy of a wave is proportional to its amplitude to the second power. The amplitude of plastic geodeformations is shown in the figure https://www.slideserve.com/laszlo/solid-earth-tides.
It turns out that the bomb fuse (trigger) is more powerful than the bomb itself.
Many mistakenly believe that on a planet with a very thin hard shell that is constantly deforming, stresses can accumulate and cause an earthquake.
Dear Borys Borys Kapochkin ,
Very good, what you posted and added comment is close to my own idea (that is why I have recomended your post). True, you think I'm just an amateur... But from where you linked: there the explanation about tides is wrong!:
'Everybody is used to the ocean tide. The pull of the Moon and the Sun on the ocean causes cyclic variations in local sea level that can exceed 10 meters in some places.What is less well known is that the Earth itself also responds to lunisolar gravitational attraction. The solid earth tide (body tide) often reaches +/- 20 cm, and can exceed 30 cm. While ocean tides can be easily measured relative to the solid Earth, solid earth tides are easily measured only with satellite systems or sensitive gravimeters. Also, the solid earth tide is a very smooth function around the Earth. For this reason, differential positioning systems, such as differential carrier phase GPS, can frequently ignore solid earth tide effects. Global geodetic networks and GPS carrier phase precise point positioning must include the effect of solid earth tide.'
Explanation is included in Hungarian in the next article:
Research AZ ELMÉLETI TUDOMÁNY KÉNYES JELENSÉGE
Another addition to your comment see at my discussion made in January 30. 2022 (first comment):
https://www.researchgate.net/post/Exists-the-next-situation-when-an-outsider-researcher-who-has-achieved-a-very-encouraging-result-in-earthquake-forecasting-is-not-supported/95
Regards,
Laszlo
An earthquake occurs due to a violation of the integrity of a block of the earth's crust, which causes a violation of the smooth passage of a tidal wave. Inhomogeneous disturbances of the earth's crust cause fluctuations in the Hertz range and, with the mutual influence of the Earth and the Moon - the Earth and the Sun, resonance occurs with a delay in the passage of the gravitational influence between the "masses". At the same time, the primary wave diverges from the place of resonance, as a surface gravitational-seismic wave.
When the resonance stops, a standing wave is formed and the secondary wave returns to the place where the resonance began. (Therefore, reptiles talk about the place where there will be an earthquake).
The secondary ring wave converges to the epicenter of the future earthquake. There is a collapse and release of energy; compression, destruction and displacement of the geological block.
Egg - chicken - egg ...
Some surface earthquakes (depths of the hypocenter less than 30 km) can have crustal or trans-crustal faults as their source. There are very rare cases when crustal faults produced by earthquakes appear, and this in the case of earthquakes with very large magnitudes (over 7.5 degrees on the Richter scale)
Something about Earth tide models for GNSS Article Impact of solid Earth tide models on GPS coordinate and trop...
For those who do not know about stresses in the earth's crust https://www.world-stress-map.org/
Interesting data on how tides in the solid body of the Earth move tectonic plates.
See my discussion "Can the rapid horizontal displacement of 52 cm in South America on 06/23/2001 be considered as a tectonic plate movement?".
The tectonic plate shifted by 52 cm on the date of the schizygy. No tension has built up. The entire tectonic plate has shifted. On the next syzygy, tidal deformations "returned it to its place." The entire tectonic plate has shifted. No tension has built up. Plate tectonically shiftings translated into strong earthquakes in the subduction zone "instantly".
This is a copy of the discussion thread.
A fast horizontal displacement of 520 mm was recorded by the Areqipa geodetic observatory in southern Peru. This process is possibly caused by spreading on June 21, 2001 and as a consequence of the "push" of the plate to the west. Very fast for plate tectonics, on June 23, 2001, in the area of contact with the Nazca plate, under the city of Areqipa, small-focus earthquakes occurred.
The card was attached "06/23/2001". Two weeks later (the zonal tide in the solid body of the Earth has a period of two weeks), the situation was mirrored. On July 6, 2001, spreading became more active on the western boundary of the Nazca plate, and less than a day later, in the area of contact with the Nazca plate of the South American plate, under the city of Areqipa, small-focus earthquakes occurred. The card was attached "07/07/2001". Areqipa station moved only 5 cm this time.
Can the rapid horizontal displacement of 52 cm in South America on 06/23/2001 be considered as a tectonic plate movement?
Your observation is very interesting. It could also be an electric cause, on a global scale, of the tectonic phenomenon.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0191814189900321
Dear Mauro Lucarini ,
Your article can be read directly from here, who are nit paid by state:
Article Earthquake faulting as a structural process
Good writing to gather information, get some explanations, but only touches the surface. I just looked through it in a rush. This writing is like when someone wants a whisky but gets a beer instead.I much prefer to look at Borys Kapochkin 's comments, because they make the point, even if not explicitly.
Regards,
Laszlo
"A phenomenon of friction could be the key to understanding when and how violently faults move during earthquakes....or earthquakes generate faults...." :
Article Ultralow frictional healing explains recurring slow slip events
Shreedharan S, Saffer D, Wallace LM, Williams C. Ultralow frictional healing explains recurring slow slip events. Science. 2023 Feb 17;379(6633):712-717. doi: 10.1126/science.adf4930.
Dear Mauro Lucarini ,
I did not found this tsentence:
'"A phenomenon of friction could be the key to understanding when and how violently faults move during earthquakes....or earthquakes generate faults...." '- because I do not understand its meaning ...
What do you think it means 'how violently faults move during earthquakes'?
Regards,
Laszlo
Что вызовет этот будущий афтершок?
I have made a earthquake forecast at my discussion:
https://www.researchgate.net/post/Exists-the-next-situation-when-an-outsider-researcher-who-has-achieved-a-very-encouraging-result-in-earthquake-forecasting-is-not-supported/113
Iin which is mentioned name of Borys Kapochkin :
'We know well that In Ankara will held the next event:
'75. Türkiye Jeoloji Kurultayı' (75. Geological Congress Of Turkey http://tjk.jmo.org.tr/index.php?kod=150&lg=en)
I made a present to the participants (without any tools)
an earthquake forecasting to the actual seismic highly active zone.
Time windows: 72 hours: 2023-04-09 (am 12 CET- 2023-04-12 (am 12 Cet
Magnitude: M: +4.5 (the maxim I do not have oportinty. from here in Hungary it is impossible to say the maximum magnitude, but in Turkey it is possible... Probably Borys Kapochkin . or Alexandr Yagodin can tell you.
Location: can also be determined precisely, The accuracy is deppend of the place of determination.'
This forecast also answers the following question:
Is earthquake forecasting easy?
I wish you all a Blessed and Peaceful Easter!
Regards,
Laszlo
Dear All,
The result of earthquake forecasting (attached file !)
I lost the bet with my son because the earthquake forecast main aftershock was M: 4-3 ...
regardless of this, the earthquake forecast was successful [ second attached file].
.I have no intention of increasing the material of the monologue.
One thing that is interesting is that this earthquake forecast has not received criticism.
This means that there is something wrong with earthquake forecasters.
I really have a lot to say, but there is no interest in it... T
Regards,
Laszlo
Article Introduction to special section: Stress transfer, earthquake...
Dear Mauro Lucarini ,
Thanks for the article... I will read carefully because, in the introduction first sentence:
'Herein we introduce the topic of this special section on ‘‘stress transfer, earthquake triggering, and time-dependent seismic hazard,’’ providing some definitions and background on the subject. We focus on literature published since about 1998, and for earlier work we refer readers to the excellent reviews of Harris'...
Reading all Introduction, they authors are trying to say us something without saying anything...
Based on the introduction, one can come to the conclusion that the whole article is written in a similar style.. Because of this, it will be tiring to read... The authors of the article remind me of Murphy's Laws:
'Education is the process of moving from cocksure ignorance to thoughtful uncertainty.'
https://www.angelo.edu/faculty/kboudrea/cheap/cheap3_murphy.htm#Education
Regards,
Laszlo
Could the following theory be an explanation to this debate?
"Earthquake Thermodynamics and Phase Transformation in the Earth's Interior"
A group of distinguished scientists contributes to the foundations of a new discipline in Earth sciences: earthquake thermodynamics and thermodynamics of formation of the Earth's interior structures. The predictive powers of thermodynamics are so great that those aspiring to model earthquake and the Earth's interior will certainly wish to be able to use the theory. Thermodynamics is our only method of understanding and predicting the behavior of many environmental, atmospheric, and geological processes. The need for Earth scientists to develop a functional knowledge of thermodynamic concepts and methodology is therefore urgent. Sources of an entropy increase the dissipative and self-organizing systems driving the evolution and dynamics of the Universe and Earth through irreversible processes. The non-linear interactions lead to the formation of fractal structures. From the structural phase transformations the important interior boundaries emerge. Non-linear interactions between the defects in solids lead the authors to develop the physics of continua with a dense distribution of defects. Disclinations and dislocations interact during a slow evolution as well as during rapid dynamic events, like earthquakes. Splitting the dynamic processes into the 2D fault done and 3D surrounding space brings a new tool for describing the slip nucleation and propagation along the earthquake faults. Seismic efficiency, rupture velocity, and complexity of seismic source zone are considered from different points of view, fracture band earthquake model is developed on the basis of thermodynamics of line defects, like dislocations. Earthquake thermodynamics offers us a microscopic model of earthquake sources. Physics of defects helps the authors decscribe and explain a number of precursory phenomena caused by the buildup of stresses. Anomalies in electric polarization and electromagnetic radiation prior to earthquakes are considered from this point of view. Through the thermodynamic approach, the authors arrive at the fascinating question of posssibility of earthquake prediction. In general, the Earth is considered here as a multicomponent system. Transport phenomena as well as wave propagation and shock waves are considered in this system subjected also to chemical and phase transformations.
You view the Earth as if it is alone.
But it rotates and moves in the Cosmos, it interacts with the surrounding planets, the Sun...
Look at "The Genesis of Earthquakes", it successfully passed the experts and it provided an accurate calculation of future earthquakes in a period of time from a week to a month.
The theory of the Genesis of earthquakes has already been confirmed by practice.
Sincerely. Alexandr Yagodin
Two interesting articles:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s43247-022-00593-5
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-36839-9
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