Dear David Haddaway ,

Thank you for your thoughtful answer. There is so much to learn and it is so easy to scoff at that which we do not understand. Continued success with your mission.

brigid

Nutraceuticals are usually considered as health benefitting organic molecules having wide range of applications...

Why not? Still the villagers eat leafy greens to increase eye sight, tomoato for blood, oranges for skin, semi ripe banana for dysentry, ocimum for variety of disease. Although the science behind the grandma remedies are not known to the villagers but they are blindly following and its working also.

Yes, if they have been tested in a double blind placebo controlled Randomized Clinical Trial.

I work in this field and our company develops Functional Food and Nutraceutical formulations for clinicians. There is enough peer-reviewed evidence now to create supplements with bioactive levels that can match doses used in clinical trials.

It is a challenging exercise to bypass the industry, community and medical bias.

The simple answer is yes. Nutraceuticals have modulating capabilities namely increased antioxidant health and anti-inflammatory, in this way, that absolutely fall in the realm of medicine.

Dear Rosary Donepanya ,

Thank you for responding to my question. I am trying to gauge attitudes in an informal way. brigid

Dear Christine Houghton ,

Thank you for your valuable insight as a participant in the industry. I am torn, I want some of the folk medicine, herbal cures to be recognized as valuable, but I do not want to see them priced out of the poor's reach. They tend to be the average consumer.

brigid

Dear Joseph Mathew Antony , Anoop Kumar Srivastava and Debashish Hota

Thank you so much for your insights and support. Granny was right, bananas are used are part of the BRAT diet to treat diarrhea. Dad mixed burnt flour into the calves milk when they had a lot of diarrhea. He thought that the carbon from the burnt toast purified the bowel, killing bacteria,

https://www.oregonclinic.com/diets-BRAT

Thanks so much Gentlemen,

brigid

Sometimes if the health condition requires it.

Dear Omar Ali Al-Khashman ,

Thank you for your response. I am not sure if nutraceuticals are the answer, but i think that they can help treat symptoms and mediate chronic disease.

brigid

Hello Brigid Conroy,

I rather recommend an old book than answer your question: DR. Vogels "Der kleiner Doctor" from German Dr. Vogel "The little doctor".

Dear Yamila Acosta-Flamma

THANK YOU so much for this information. I wish that i would have had the chance to hear him lecture. What a marvelous life to be able to help so many people. I will have to check out his book.

brigid

Nutraceutical have additional value in those cases where the diet is insuffient or not optimal.

In comparison to vitamin deficiency: you can only notice clinical presentation of severe deficiency. Suboptimal supply or minor deficiencies remains in general unnoticed.

Dear Jos Wielders

Thank you for your insights and for joining the conversation. We need to return to a diet with less additives, but also, we need to investigate the old wives tales that have stood the test of time.

brigid

It is a pleasure to have the opportunity to answer this inquiry. We are preceded by millennia of experience re this topic documenting the use and benefits of nutrients to prevention and healer of numerous clinical conditions, As an example in this modern era, consider CBD oil and products. Its benefits are listed in the sales ads and it works as advertised.

Dear Mitchell V Kaminski

Thank you for joining the conversation and your insights.

I have not tried CBD oil myself but I know people that have tried it. Some have had

success with it, some haven't. I think that food/herbs/plants have the power to help with illnesses but just like medication, it has its limits and risks. But, only research can prove what non-pharmaceuticals can do.

brigid

Dear Joseph Mathew Antony

Thank you for your information about orthomolecular medicine. I think that it is an interesting concept. I am not totally sure that it is the answer that it claims to be, but it makes sense that nutrition/nutrients optimize the body.

brigid

Hi Brigid! I see you reside "locally" here in the state of Texas. I have worked in the dietary supplement, nutrition industry for more than 28 years. I believe nutraceuticals can be beneficial, but they cannot replace a healthy diet and lifestyle. Unfortunately, I see some people treat these products like pharmaceuticals believing they will address symptoms and cover-up or make up for poor lifestyle choices.

By their true definition, dietary supplements are just that. These products are intended to supplement an otherwise healthy diet. On the other hand, I see scientists and medical practitioners disregard potential benefits of supplements, because they are not supported by the gold standard of (drug) research (i.e. randomized, double-blind and placebo controlled, etc.). I certainly do not want to discredit this level of research. Unfortunately, few companies want to invest financially in this level of research as the investment seldom provides the desired financial return.

Also, add to the fact that use of supplements for the treatment of a medical condition is not allowed by US FDA standards. Even if I had a study saying, for example, L-theanine can help manage the symptoms of anxiety, I could not make this statement. I could say however that L-theanine can help minimize everyday feelings of anxiousness as long as my target market was not to people with anxiety. If I did, this would be an implied drug claim and my product would be considered misbranded. By focusing on everyday or on maintaining a specific and normal function of the body in healthy individuals, I am able to make beneficial statements about a dietary supplement.

Going back to the level of research necessary to support the benefits of dietary supplements, most scientists, doctors and government regulators focus on quantitative research as the only type of research acceptable to support their benefits. In my opinion, qualitative research is just as important. For example, if I have a medical doctor, who has developed a detailed protocol that includes the use of dietary supplements and has literally helped hundreds or even thousands of patients improve their condition by showing improvements in blood biomarkers and has documented these results, this qualitative research should not be disregarded, because it is not the gold standard.

Lastly, going back to your original question, I believe qualitative research has been used to support the traditional benefits of certain botanicals, nutraceuticals, etc. in support of their use. Practitioners would document the effects of certain substances and their effects with a patient and would prescribe them accordingly. Fortunately, today we have additional means of keeping track of these effects in a more quantifiable way by adding blood tests or including standardized subjective measures such as a survey. This allows for greater in-depth validation and may ultimately also provide research or insight that may disqualify the effectiveness of some traditional use plants, etc.

I have used and will continue to use certain supplements as a means of helping me manage my health. While there is scientific evidence to support these effects and there may be very few clinical trials of their benefits, I have personally observed improvements through their use. However, making alterations to my diet and not through the use of dietary supplements, have I seen the greatest benefits and improvements to my health.

Dear Darin Blackhurst ,

THANK YOU so much for your detailed answer. I come at this question from a farming background more than a nursing or scientific background. I watched dad treat the cattle and us to a lesser degree with home remedies and common sense.

I agree that foods/diet changes are better than supplements. I do use some, there was a product that was supposed to help with seasonal allergies that is not made anymore. It was amazing, a little hard on the stomach. Local honey works fairly well, so I use it.

Quantitative Research is expensive and time consuming, so it is not used in the botanical/herbal/supplement world. That needs to change. Medicine is so expensive and difficult to obtain for many smaller countries, heck, even in rural America.

Again, thank you for your perspectives and information.

brigid

Food is thy medicine is no longer the case in an industrialized world coupled with the loss of biodiversity. From a critical standpoint, nutraceuticals provide benefits in the absence of diverse foods or due to environmental pollution. A clear example is the fish-oil nutraceuticals. The waters are polluted with heavy metals and consuming fish from the higher food chain hierarchy becomes detrimental due to bioaccumulation of mercury in fish fat. In the case of loss of biodiversity, nutraceuticals aim to supplement the diet.

Despite the vast benefits of nutraceuticals, it's important to note that the pharmaceutical industry produces drugs by isolation of certain active ingredients from natural plant resources. For instance, metformin drug disqualifies the use of plant sources like the Spider Plant just by the mere fact that experimental studies were conducted on the LD (lethal dose), NOEL (no observed effect level), and ED50 (Median Effective Dose) of the Goat Rue Plant that today is famous for the Metformin Drug production. Therefore, validity arises from RCTs and to some extent Non-RCTs studies inclusive of qualitative research.

Finally, from a personal perspective, I believe food is thy medicine only through moderation and diversification of food choices. It's sad though that Africa, once full of medicinal plant variety is now merely occupied with mono-crops leading to loss of biodiversity, malnutrition, and lost traditional medicinal culture. Diseases like cancer (my own personal perspective and indigenous knowledge) will continue to thrive because we lost a biodiverse resource system that once had the cure for cancer but didn't reach the hands of the pharmaceutical scientists.

Hi Brigid, yes I firmly believe in that we should only use food to cure all our illness. All medicines other than food are foreign to our body and are potentially dangerous, as Oliver Wendell Holmes said one and a half centuries ago: "I firmly believe that if the whole materia medica as now used could be sunk to the bottom of the sea, it would be all the better for mankind - and all the worse for the fishes.":

Article Hazards of New Drugs: The scientific approach is necessary f...

In talking about food, don't forget the microorganisms in our environment and inside us, they are the really food of us, and the food we eat is the raw materials for them to live on and grow. Although all microorganisms are potential pathogens, we have been living with the microorganisms for thousands of million years before and after we found them as microorganisms, and co-evolved with them all the way. We relay on them to foster our immune system, and as the source of essential metabolites for our body:

Article Animals in a bacterial world, a new imperative for the life sciences

Article Commentary: Reconciling Hygiene and Cleanliness: A New Persp...

Most of the modern illness like morbid obesity and metabolic syndromes are due to the malnutrition caused by the disconnection between us and the microorganism community - the so called dysbiosis. The abuse of antibiotics is the main cause of such disconnection.

Nutraceuticals can enhance the validity of humans for sure.

My question to you Birgid Conroy, can you access the Yanomami collection of medicine plants? Those plants helped the Amazon indigenous to live a healthy life for centuries in and from the Nature.

Kind regards,

Yamila Acosta-Flamma

Nutraceuticals can enhance the validity of humans for sure

“Nutraceuticals can enhance the validity of humans for sure“ seems to be a popular response🤪 what does it even mean?

Dear Elizabeth Mukonyo ,

Thank you so much for your detailed response. I agree that we have not been protecting the earth and it can't nourish us, if we have no respect for it.

brigid

Dear Ligen Yu ,

Thank you for joining the conversation. There is so much to learn from food and traditional medicine plant based or otherwise. I have seen it work in my family and I have great respect for the knowledge of our ancestors.

brigid

Dear Agnishwar Girigoswami and Muhammad Akram

Thank you so much for your interest in this thread.

brigid

Dear Yamila Acosta-Flamma ,

Thank you for your recommendation, I have never heard of Yanomami. I appreciate your addition to the conversation.

brigid

Dear Joseph Mathew Antony ,

Thank you for your question and interest. To me, nutraceuticals are foods or herbal mixtures that are used to treat illnesses and improve health. I use beets to control gallbladder disease. Dad used a "tea" to treat an ulcer. It turned out that he had a bleeding ulcer. 40 years later, when he had emergency surgery, the surgeon was amazed that he was able to heal the ulcer without surgery or any intervention.

brigid

I recommend taking a look at this journal: Functional Foods in Health and Disease

https://ffhdj.com/index.php/ffhdj

Dear Bjoern Lindemann

Thank you very much for joining the conversation and the valuable link.

brigid

YES!!!

These are the types of doctors and medicine we should hold in high esteem. Food as medicine goes back for centuries, how we ever ended up with allopathic medicine is beyond me , actually it is not, being responsible for your actions is a normal thought, but not for our medical system. It basically says do what ever you want and we will try to treat you with drugs ,radiation or surgery and you are as good as new. First of all ,that seldom happens, I always exclude the great advances in Trauma and Emergency Medicine (2 % of our medicine) but the rest of it I can not believe some of them can live with themselves. I am a Terrain Theory vs Germ Theory person ,and one is to make a lot of money, and the other is heal people with nutrition, exercise, sleep, fasting, sun, urine therapy and other non expensive treatments.

The above answer by David Haddaway is perfect! It is diet and exercise as the key to health and recovery, not a pill which is often preferred by the patient as it avoids the need to discontinue harmful habits.

Dear Dr. Mitchell V Kaminski ,

Thank you so much for joining the conversation. As you suggest, it is much easier to take a pill than do the hard lifting of changing bad habits.

brigid

Dear David Haddaway ,

Thank you for your thoughtful answer. There is so much to learn and it is so easy to scoff at that which we do not understand. Continued success with your mission.

brigid

I do believe. As current guideline approaches emphasized studying foods as dietary patterns, it is important for us to use a dietary pattern to prevent or treat a disease, rather than using a single food as a magic bullet. For example, using the Mediterranean diet has been shown to be effective in preventing cardiovascular disease among individuals with high cardiovascular risk. Also, using the DASH diet has been shown to reduce blood pressure. Besides these two great examples, I think we still have a lot of works to be done to prevent other common chronic diseases, like diabetes and cancer. Overall, I believe the future of food as medicine is promising.

Dear Jiada Zhan

Thank you for your contribution to the thread. One food is definitely not a silver bullet, but whether it is the Mediterranean diet, DASH, low carb or a variety of diets, food can heal as well as hurt. We tend to focus on its hurtful side. As you suggest, it is time we started focusing on how food can help.

brigid

Nutraceuticals are bioactive compounds, obtained in the form of prebiotics from some plants, they have the ability to nourish and to be used as a preventive medicine for some diseases. However, the only way to consider food would be by employing its use in food fortification.

Dear Jhunior Marcia Fuentes

Thank you for joining the thread and your insights. I do not know if we agree or not, but i use lemon juice and local honey as a treatment for allergies. Beets cooked, baked or pickled help with gall bladder sludge/colic. Yogurt is a great source of prebiotics but some may argue that it is a fortified food. Food choices can cause a lot of diseases, I just think that food also has the potential to help heal.

brigid

Dear Mila Ilieva

Thank you for your interest in this thread. Are there foods that you use to treat an illness?

brigid

Nutraceuticals do not fall into the food category, they are closer to drugs. The combination of honey and lemon, in addition to other foods due to their bioactive compounds, enter the second generation functional food line. Functional foods are preventive and many nutraceuticals are curative, when this purpose is reached, we are closer to a drug.

The validity of nutraceuticals lies in supplementing food to make it a balanced diet for promoting good health.

Dear Brigid Conroy ,

This is a very useful and interesting thread. Your question is not only very relevant, but also raises, I am sure of this, many interrelated questions.

Very best wishes,

IVB

Dear Igor Boichuk

Thank you for joining the conversation and adding your insights.

brigid

Dear Mila Ilieva

Thank you for adding to the discussion. I agree with yogurt as a support to digestive issues.

brigid

Dear Arbind K. Choudhary and Jhunior Marcia Fuentes

I think that I was careless in my use of the term nutraceuticals. You both offer a more precise definition. I like the term functional food. But, however it is defined,

food can boost health and healing. Research should be done to demonstrate how food and which specific foods can enhance health. Especially in this health crisis,

foods that boost immunity and assist the body in dealing with stress would be very useful.

brigid

Dear Brigid Conroy, I remain at your disposal for any joint initiative on nutraceuticals, my specialty is food and nutraceuticals. Team we will achieve interesting things. Greetings.

Corona crisis is evolution in action: it is killing the least fit. Fatal victims are mainly diabetics and pre-diabetics (i.e. also people with hypertension and CVD) and on the other hand people with vitamin D deficiency ( obese and coloured people). The solution: eat whole food and substitute vitamin D if your living conditions do not allow you to make your own by sun exposure.

Dear Jhunior Marcia Fuentes

Thank you for your generous offer. I do not know what I want to do with this thread. I do believe in the benefits of food to promote health and regain health.

And this Covid crisis, makes me more convinced that dietary choices play a part in who avoids Covid and who survives with minor or no damage.

I do like the thought of functional foods especially with the financial crisis that is accompanying the health risk of Covid-19. I have been a cardiac nurse for almost 30 years, growing up on a farm I have seen old fat farmers who lived into their 80's and 90's because of physical work, good food, air and water. I have also seen height/weight appropriate patients who are stressed, don't do physical work and eat a prepared food diet that does not provide the vitamins and minerals that the body needs. There are many tangents that this thread can address.

brigid

Dear Eric Van Royen ,

Thank you for your interest in this thread. I agree with you in part, but now we are seeing young people without comorbidities being stricken with Covid. Of course, it does not help that there is a trend for young people to have Covid parties to get it. A news report states that kids are putting money into a fund and whoever gets Covid first gets the money. But, I do agree that food choices, good and bad, affect our immunity and over all health.

brigid

There was a long journey of trial and error behind the use of plants in traditional medicine. The use of some of plants seems obvious to those who were treated by a grandmother as a child. Therefore, for example, when I injure my finger "to the blood" outside the city, I apply a crumpled leaf of a broadleaf plantain, etc. Many local herbs are traditionally used in folk medicine and are easy to buy from both private pickers and in pharmacies. I believe in the action of many, and moreover, I was convinced by the practice (for example, "Icelandic moss", or reindeer lichen). Many herbs are used as a base for "herbal teas" - for example, fireweed, raspberry leaves, currants, mint, rose hips, linden blossom. But at the same time, I am skeptical about the hype about food drugs against covid, cancer, etc. Medicine must be evidence-based, even folk medicine.

A WORD OF CAUTION: If you get involved with foods that you claim prevent, treat or cure; be careful. This semantic makes it a drug and the FDA can come after you with charges of a crime, legal action and penalties include ding fines and jail time. I advise retaining an FDA skilled lawyer before you do any advertising. Scientific reports of research are protected.

Thank you, Briget for your reply. The health condition of a person wil not be decisive for the risk of being infected, that is a matter of exposure, but for the outcome in case of infection. No neutraceutical can protect against exposure and infection.

Daily a little dose of neutraceuitical, is believed to protect body from the harmful metabolites, byproduct or any ROS species. Hence can be included as a supplement. Still it needs rigorous research, in evaluating the performance and doses for better effect in body.

Thank you to all the eminent scientists for putting an on-site on this topic. I learned a lot.

Dear Subhrajyoti Mishra

Thank you for joining the discussion and for your insights. I agree that there is something in certain foods that keeps us healthier than other substances. I believe that the fewer additives we eat improves our health.

brigid

Dear Mitchell V Kaminski

Thank you for the wise advice. I did not think of my suggestions in those terms but, of course my enthusiasm can be mistaken for such. I mean only to spur research based on my own experience with different foods. I foolishly did not think of the negative side of such suggestions. I should as a nurse know better.

brigid

Overall, our health is shaped by what we eat, i.e., the nutrients and phytochemicals we give to our body

Dear Eric Van Royen

Keeping in mind Mitchell V Kaminski 's advice. I do think that while perhaps nutraceuticals can not prevent or cure infection, good nutrition can reduce the incidence of infections. Research also suggests that the cruciferous family can reduce colon cancer risks. So, I think that more research needs to be done to rule it out or prove its benefit. I have been a cardiac nurse long enough to see foods and vitamins be hailed as heroes and debunked later. But, admittedly, I still believe in Vitamin B, E and C for healing. I want so badly to believe that we can with responsible food choices reduce medication use.

brigid

Nutraceuticals are non-toxic food extract supplements that havescientifically proven health benefits for both the treatment and prevention of disease.

Nutraceuticals are natural functional diets, medicinal foods, or bioactive phytochemicals that have health-promoting, disease-preventing, and/or medicinal properties.

Nutraceuticals have many beneficial effects; hence, they have been used for treating and prevent many health problems, such as cancer, inflammation, hypertension, cardiovascular diseases, atherosclerosis, obesity, diabetes and others

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6806606/

Food is definitely a part of the holistic therapies. Having said that, less of refined foods, more of natural ingredients and following the DASH pyramid is therapeutically indicated.

Dear Vadim S. Gorshkov

Thank you for your very thoughtful answer. I appreciate your insights. I have seen herbal and food treatments that did amazing things. I agree that any miracle cure for cancer or Covid, be it medicine or food/herbal/folk needs to be researched and best evidence.

brigid

Dear Chinaza Godswill Awuchi

Thank you for your multiple contributions and insights. I appreciate the link and your interest in this thread. There are many folk and food cures that old wives' tales have proven through use but not research. Those practices really should be investigated.

brigid

Dear Sumanta Chakraborty ,

Thank you for your valuable insights. I do agree that the DASH diet and other moderation diets offer a lot to the health of its subscribers.

brigid

Some bioactive compounds from plants in the form of prebiotics, mainly polyphenols, enzymes, acids, amino acids and essential oils, are being used for their ancestral knowledge against the treatment of COVID, mainly in countries with cultural roots of tribal or indigenous groups. Making infusion-type drinks from ginger, onion, chamomile, garlic and honey

Dear Jhunior Marcia Fuentes

Thank you for your continued interest in this thread and your valuable insights.

Covid-19 is making people desperate and perhaps irrational like cancer did in the 70's and to an extent still does. I would like to believe that there is a treatment in existence for Covid that is waiting to be discovered. While I know that there are foods that can help with the symptoms of Covid-19, it takes research to demonstrate the efficacy. Just as pharmaceutical companies need to prove that drug regimes work. From experience, ginger helps with stomach issues, nausea and abdominal cramping. I hope that people do not put too much trust in drugs or folk medicine without research. I hope that promising folk medicine is investigated.

brigid

Dear Brigid Conroy

Thank you, Madam

The topic of your question is very important

It is beautiful that I have benefited from the answers of the professors and researchers participating on your honorable platform

Thanks to them and greetings to you, my wise lady.

Dear Eric Van Royen

Thank you, sir. I agree with you, sir

Thanks for this important information

yes I believe that for example the natural food it contains many vitamins and Minerals which very important for the body

I concur with Sayl Gani Abd- Al-Razaq

Dear Sayl Gani Abd- Al-Razaq and فاضل عاشور عبد الكريم

Thank you for your interest in this topic. Given the current situation, I think food choices really affect our ability to stay healthy.

brigid

Dear Igor Boichuk ,

Thank you for your continued interest in this vital topic,

brigid

Dear Brigid Conroy ,

It's a pleasure to have one's say in this most relevant thread. Thank you for such an opportunity,

Igor

Nothing works better, I believe, than using food as medicine and going back to nature. If there is anything to be called "cure" and not the mere treatment of symptoms, it must be found in nature including but not limited to food. Not even orthodox medicine works without it.

Food from plants have bioactive molecules, which provide us with nutrition and medicinal contribution (nutraceuticals), eating healthy is the basis for prevention.

Dear Effah Kwaku Korsah ,

Thank you for your thoughtful comment. I agree totally, of course. I think that we are short-sighted when we do not consider the cultural food choices and available/affordable foods that people eat when medicines are prescribed.

i appreciate your contribution to this thread.

brigid

We should always be mindful of the difference between (i) maintaining good health with healthy food choices, which is preventative, and (ii) resorting to healthy foods as a medicine, which is remedial. Once certain kinds of damage has been done as a result of longterm poor eating habits, merely changing one's eating habits may come too late. Timely and effective treatment may also require pharmaceuticals, as well as invasive measures.

Dear Karl Pfeifer ,

You are correct of course, but perhaps a little wrong. I do believe that food can be

medicine. A hot toddy when we have a cold makes us feel better if we like brandy and sufficient is used. However, the lemon and honey if used in sufficient quantities have healing properties as well. A teaspoon of local honey 3 x a day has frequently treated my seasonal allergies and those who i have told to try it either as a preventative or remedial action. My gallbladder gets pissy if I do not ear beets with a fatty meal as a preventative to a colic attack.

Not all old remedies work, but foods/plants are the source of many medicines. :=}

brigid

Dear Prof Karl Pfeifer , food is the only real medicine that can bring us back to good health from any illness. All the so-called "medicine" will do more harm that good to our body. Also, if one is in good health, any medical condition shouldn't last more than 2 days. Viral infection should be shown as chilly cold, and resolve in one or 2 days, but shouldn't develop into fever. Bacterial infection should not happen, as all bacterial infection is self-limiting. If a condition lasts for more than one week, we must do substantial lifestyle change.

Please refer to the following book: The Art of Living Long:

http://hdl.handle.net/2027/nnc2.ark:/13960/t1sf3j34q

Dear Ligen Yu

What food would you recommend as an alternative to medicinal insulin for treatment of type 1 diabetes? Or for curing toenail fungus?

Dear Prof Karl Pfeifer , thank you for reading my comments and reply.

Type 1 diabetes mellitus (T1DM) is an autoimmune disease possibly caused by dysbiosis. The malnutrition induced by the imbalance of microorganisms inside our body leads to the malfunction of our body’s immunity -- the immunoreaction against the pancreatic beta-cells which destroys these beta-cells. While in short term, insulin injection is necessary, in long term, a balanced diverse microbiome is needed to rebuild a healthy immune system and the pancreatic beta-cells for insulin production, and to get rid of the insulin injection dependency.

I don’t think fugus need special treatment. The viruses, bacteria and fungi and other microorganisms on and inside our body form our microbiota. They are essential for our health, as the diverse genome of these microorganisms provide us all the essential nutrition that are needed by our body. Lack of any of them will lead to autoimmune diseases like T1DM mentioned above.

Dear Karl Pfeifer,

Urine Therapy will cure Toe Nail Fungus, topically and ingesting it.

David Haddaway I don't think the concentration of urea in urine is high enough for a topical treatment. As for drinking urine, there are too many possible impurities. You can get it in synthesized form in a capsule, but there's no hard evidence as to its efficacy taken orally.

https://www.livescience.com/39453-urine-chemical-composition.html

https://www.winchesterhospital.org/health-library/article?id=161688

Karl Pfeifer , It will cure Athletes footer any type of Toe nail fungus, Madonna did it, with just a topical application, but to address what is causing the fungus, you would have to drink it as well. The only reason there is no Hard Evidence on all of the conditions that your own urine will Cure is because it is Free and it Works on so many different things. I did reference a Canadian Study on the contents of Urine ,but they were not exploring all of the Benefits of Urine, Do Not Bite the hand that feeds you is the Allopathic Mantra. People can barely comprehend the benefits of Fresh Urine, so I will not go into the Benefits of Aged Urine at this time.

Karl Pfeifer I used some of the same quotes referenced in your response in my book on the components of Urine. Unfortunately ,there is Fake News in the "science " referenced. You can do,what we call "looping" which is consuming only your own urine for up to 30 days with no ill effects, in fact ,Fasting and consuming your own Urine is the most healing protocol anyone can utilize, but once again, no Money in Not Eating ,and No Money in drinking or topically applying your own Urine. It changes from Toxic Body Waste miraculously to a Life Saving fluid when no water is around somehow. I drink it every day, and have done so for over 11 years ,I put it in my eyes, ears, nose, nothing better to treat Ear Infections,Eye Infections Etc,I could go on and on with all of the healing benefits of Urine,but you get the picture.

Dear Karl Pfeifer and David Haddaway

The body is an amazing thing and can help cure itself when treated well. BUT, for sure there are at least two treatments that I would never consider. Using poop to cure c-diff or ingesting urine. I am willing to consider pouring urine over a foot, but nothing higher. ;-}

May the New Year bring health, happiness and relief from this nasty Covid virus. I am not ready to shout victory yet.

brigid

Dear Ligen Yu

Thank you for your detailed and spirited support for foods as medicine. I agree that we use too many drugs especially antibiotics. I also wonder if there are foods that can control cholesterol for most. There are people with serious cholesterol problems. But one of the women at work has had more success with krill oil than any of the drugs that she has tried for the last ten years. Moderation in food and drink, moderate exercise can offer many people as much success with health as some medications with no side effects. Except, it requires a person to use control and common sense which are not popular treatments. I SAY THAT AS A FAT WOMAN.

Thank you very much for your contributions to the conversation. Blessings in the New Year, may it be prosperous, healthy and a whole lot less scary.

brigid

Brigid Conroy Karl Pfeifer

Thank you for your less than informed response regarding urine consumption or topical applications. As for C Diff ,you can thank allopathic medicine and the great savior , Antibiotics for that and many other serious conditions it helps create in a human or animal body.

I wonder if you have even heard of Fecal transfers that medicine has to resort to or consider because of all the damage done to our biology by the miracle drug ,Antibiotics.

There were some true statements made in one of the references listed , you can and will get a reaction from drinking or topically applying urine to yourself depending on what is wrong with your body. You can get itching, or a rash or diarrhea , or a respiratory response, those are signs of healing in urine therapy, in allopathic medicine they are signs that you are being poisoned.

You have zero knowledge about urine therapy, and yet you are experts in the field.

I do appreciate your response though it confirms everything I preach.

David

Dear David Haddaway

David, I certainly didn't mean to offend you. I have heard of fecal transfers and that is what i was referencing. Don't care, it is too gross for words to me. I have had patients and friends who have been so sick because of c-diff. I am not a fan of antibiotics and do think that there are foods that can help reduce infections and the fungal overgrowths from too many antibiotics. In the elderly, most certainly c-diff can be the final insult that leads to death. it was with one of my friends' mother. We have had improved results with the elderly and those on tube feedings and antibiotics if we start them on acidophilus. Yougurt has been one of my favorite get well foods and I encourage my patients to eat it if they can tolerate it or try the acidophilus capsules.

As for urine therapy, I have never heard of it, except that if sterile, it is considered a safe liquid when no other choices exist. I have trouble believing though with the host of foods and herbal medicines available that urine is a first line defense.

TANGENT: I have been reading about Avicenna, I AM BY NO MEANS AN EXPERT, very interesting man, quite underrated and largely unknown by the average Westerner. His approach to clinical testing is followed today and he researched a great many herbal remedies.

Pomegranates were a popular medicine. I was surprised by the claims- can retard breast and prostate cancer, for skin infections, it can lower blood pressure and cholesterol to name a few benefits. What other herbal remedies has he studied that have not been investigated by the Western Medical System? American Native medicines, Indian and Chinese medicines have many favorable outcomes.

There are also treatments that are not successful or questionable-killing a rhino to use the horn for some medicine as an example. Any herbal remedy can have a negative side. The discussion should be, why are these medicines not being evaluated? Yes MONEY is a factor, but with the high cost of drugs and medical care, money spent on research for cheaper treatments can balance out. Even if a drug company takes an herbal compound and refines it, the company is starting with direction on what the compound can do and even possibly, the active ingredient . Should governments especially since they provide medicines and treatments for the poor and elderly take a more active role in drug development?-Again a tangent, but part of the discussion.

Medical treatment, whether it is Western medicine or traditional medicine needs to be ethical, efficient and patient centered. There are treatments on both sides that are legitimate.

I gather that you are being sarcastic when you state that i am a expert in urine therapy?

Thank you for your continued engagement in this thread. The goal for any practitioner should be the patient, not profit. For that reason, I posed this question because Western Medicine has made medicine a profit margin, drug companies produce chemical solutions that are not always safe--lawsuit anyone?

I grew up on farm and have seen how foods can heal, but i have used some traditional cures that caused problems also. St John's Wort-severe rash and breathing problem, kava-breathing problems.

That is why I think that this is a good discussion to have.

brigid

Brigid Conroy ,

Dear Brigid,

Urine therapy is the only ancient health practice that has survived the test of time. We no longer use leaches ,and after hundreds of years no longer let blood. We stopped pushing ice picks into the eye for depression about 70 years ago, and thankfully someone questioned that established accepted medical practice.

We do not dare challenge the over 100 year old "Germ Theory" and it is practically forbidden to even question it. That is how science works.

The "Terrain Theory " makes much more sense or some combination of the two.

If the main stream media and modern medicine spent the same amount of time telling the public to eat better, stop all the sugar, get some exercise, go in the sun, not stay out of it instead of get a vaccine and eat what ever you want, we would be a healthy operating nation.

That is without throwing in the use of Urine Therapy, granted it is a strange topic, and comes out of a private part, and that makes it much easier to suppress and mislead people about all of it's benefits, which are too numerous to go into if you use allopathic medical terms for each affliction.

It is TOO easy to confirm that it will work on cuts, bruises, colds and flu's , (it prevents getting one if used as a tonic) I can't say the prevailing bug's name ,but it would work on that as well, and ZERO "Research " is being done, why,because there is no money or incentive to tell you that. You make your own ,and it is unique to you , it has all of your own antibodies. You were made in it, if I know this ,does anyone think "Science " does not know how powerful your own urine is.

It has been recorded in history for over 5,000 years.

I call it the most powerful medicine on the planet.

The "side effects " of 99% of allopathic pharmaceuticals are really the effects, and none really heal you of anything.

My favorite "side effects" used to be it will kill you 3 different ways , but I just heard a new one where you could lose your lower limbs, please prescribe that for me.

Hippocrates would be rolling over in his grave if he saw what medicine has become , a money making and employment scheme .

Lets shove some tubes down someone throat ,paralyze them ,kill 88 out of 100 and call that good medicine.

I have the utmost respect for Trauma or Emergency Medicine ,a completely different ballgame that is less than 2 % of Medicine.

Natural healing, Nutrition, Fasting,Urine Therapy, getting in the sun would have saved more lives during this pandemic than going into one of those hospitals.

No one is really trying to save lives or solve this "pandemic" and the proof is in the no urine therapy research .

David

David Haddaway

Dear David,

You are definitely a passionate supporter of urine therapy. I have heard it being used as a partially effective treatment for psoriasis. The 3 or 4 patients that I have had who admit to using urine, state that it helps but only controls it at best.

I am a convert to the use of honey-Manuka honey for healing, local honey for allergy problems cinnamon as an anti-infective and carrots as an anti-infective, in addition to other spices and foods. Beets are totally amazing for gallbladder colic.

I do not mean to preach at you, obviously, you have a stronger grasp of the subject. Leeches have made a comeback though, they are just being used in a little different way. In fact, we had a patient a year ago that we tried leeches on, to use for revascularization. I do not remember the outcome. I think that it helped.

unfortunately I remember the panic it created when one fell off and everyone HAD to come in and look for it.

Thank you for your information and interest in this topic.

brigid

Dearest Brigid Conroy . Some claim that Golden Showers are therapeutic. I guess it's no worse than smearing chocolate syrup or whipped cream over your body.

There is a related story about Donald Trump, possibly apocryphal (i.e. fake news) but I'll save that for another day.

I think this thread has petered 🙄out....

Brigid Conroy ,

Psoriasis is one of the big ones that allopathic medicine says there is no cure for. Urine Therapy will work , it can work marginally or it can work well if you help it, but almost every allopathic treatment for psoriasis is harmful to the patient and does not cure you ever. Psoriasis is not really a skin disease, it is a gut disorder that shows up on the skin, so topical and drinking the urine will have to be done . They could also apply aged urine to their skin. It is more powerful than fresh.

The food industry and allopathic medicine both know that food is medicine ,and bad food is poison ,but it is good for business.

I hate to let Karl Pfeifer know that it is much worse drinking sugar compared to drinking urine, two completely opposite extremes . Urine heals and sugar makes people sick and kills.

Wear a mask and wash your hands, that is where we are 100 years after the Spanish Flu pandemic. No change, lots of vaccines, ZERO Urine Therapy Investigation. The reason is ,they know that the urine would work, but how does anyone make money from that, but it would become a lifestyle and that would kill 30% of the economy and everyone would be healthy, and there would be no national medicare and social security financial crisis.

Karl would love for this thread to peter out ,just like all of allopathic medicine would. There is no way I know more about the miracles of urine therapy over those that conspire to conceal it's benefits.

David

David Haddaway You presume too much. I don't add sugar to anything and have never purchased sugar in my entire life. I stopped eating sweets as a teenager over half a century ago and now sometimes even cringe when I even look at baked goods with icing. I always read labels carefully too. Although some sugar in foods is unavoidable I am a minimalist in that regard.

I notice that one of my therapeutic skin lotions is 10% urea and recall that in the middle ages urine was collected for tanning leather and that tanners are rumored to have soft-skinned hands, so I can see that it can directly or may indirectly have a beneficial effect on skin.

I have also eaten Icelandic Hákarl and quite like it but that's the extent of my taste for urine. As Brigid Conroy has probably concluded by now, I'm not grossed out by much of anything (excepting sugary desserts), but in the case of ingesting urine for health reasons I am not convinced by the evidential claims of the enthusiasts.

BTW, do you just drink your own urine or supplement it with urine from other folks or from animals? Apparently camel urine has been touted in some quarters:

https://en.radiofarda.com/a/drink-camel-urine-to-cure-coronavirus-prophetic-medicine-man-says/30565663.html