Jim, seek out the scholarly primary resources for various religions. This is hard work and very complex; but it is your task. Remember too that the Ten Commandments on Mt. Sinai when applied to 21st century US are applied in new and different ways because of historical and cultural change.

Thank you Mary,

I also am considering as examples the yamas and niyamas of Hindu/Buddhist philosophy and the jackal-headed god Anubis weighing of the heart of the deceased against the feather of Ma’at (the implicit moral code of the ancient Egyptians), My objective here is to offer some well considered examples, but only as a point of departure for suggesting a philosophical point about contemporary ethical practice. I am of course familiar with other traditions (the Sermon on the Mount for example), but would prefer to use ancient sources that are (I hope) less likely to unintentionally offend.

Hi again, Jim. No matter what you write, you are bound to offend someone. However, if your writing comes into the hands or Kindle of people who know World Religions, you will need convincing, not obscure examples. Next, what is your philosophical point vis a vis contemporary ethical practice? Take care here.... there are still those who consider beheading to be an acceptable way to deal with differences. This is very interesting and I hope you realize that I am not being light, but simply asking some of the many questions that come to mind. ML

Philadelphia, PA

Dear Huebner, 

I'm also interested in what your philosophical point might be. I take it that all religions are somewhat polymorphous, bringing out distinct aspects of their various doctrines, stories and histories on differing occasions; and I'm inclined to look at the phenomena from a naturalistic perspective --which provides a sort of common ground among the differences in traditions and belief or confession--by emphasizing the social and ethical meaning or consequences. 

From that perspective, it strikes me that accounts of divine law-giving, as with Moses and the 10 commandments, function to underscore an implicit assurance of eternal or permanent validity of the laws or ethical regulation. The very idea of permanent ethical laws or rules may, of course, for some raise skeptical doubts all by itself.

On the other hand, having recently taught Aristotle's ethics and his physics at the same time, I was much impressed by how much of the physics was clearly obsolete, while so much of the ethics might well count as a reasonable way of living. I take it that this is because, ethics is more closely related to human nature --though I want to stipulate that there is also a kind of acquired (or second) nature implicit in habit and culture. These I take to be social realities --somewhat plastic but not indefinitely malleable. 

So, I'm inclined to say that the stories of divine lawgivers function to assure a relative permanence of moral regulation--subject, one might assume, to subsequent and similar intervention and regulations--think of a "new covenant," e.g. Consistent with many religious traditions, I suspect, one might take the view that there is always some "higher law," which we are yet to recognize and implement, and this is an opening to a more liberal rendition of related traditions. 

I wonder if these slight reflections might help your question along. 

H.G. Callaway

Jim, since you're making a comparative study you may want to look at the Popol-Vuh, the bible of the Maya.  It's creation, law-giving, wages of sin stories are very interesting with parallels to the Christian Bible.  Adam and Eve were punished for gaining forbidden knowledge.  The early Maya had as much knowledge as the gods so in their next incarnation they were "dumbed down" so that the gods would be praised for being "special," the creators of man (created from corn, by the way).

One man's mythology is another man's theology.   

JFW: Thank you very much for the reference. I am following up on the Mayan Popol-Vuh and I agree that it seems to fit in well with the “revealed moral code” view that I am attempting to explicate here. Moreover, it potentially adds a bit of historical diversity that will help make my point about such myths being universal or (one might say) “species-typical.”

ML: I gratefully take your point about some of the more obscure examples I mentioned…in addition to your note of caution. I am indeed making a philosophical point here that is not without controversy. I am perhaps overly sensitive in wanting to make that point convincing while respecting that others may have reason to disagree. As JFW says, what to me may be a "myth" to another may be a deeply cherished world-view.  

ML and HGC: My perspective is, perhaps unsurprisingly, a naturalistic one. I share the skepticism that HGC mentions regarding “permanent ethical laws” (or to put it another way) any sort of “mind-independent objective moral reality”. I too suspect that our conception of morality is an emergent one – again as HGC put it, “closely related to human nature” and malleable (to some important extent) by both time and culture.

I will share these ideas as I develop them further. Meanwhile, thank you all for these thoughts and reflections.

Jim

Two thoughts for you to consider: The point about mythologies is well made and many of the older mythologies, including European fairytales, the beliefs of ancients as studied by Levi-Strauss and the beliefs of tribal societies studied by the early anthropologists are all possibilities to consider if you are anxious to avoid giving inadvertent offence.  However, the Islamic codes of conduct owe their unchanging and unchangeable nature to the fact believers hold them to be the directly given word of God - the Koran is, in this view, the word of God and not the writings of man, and consequently cannot and must not be changed or interpreted.  Examining what effects this has could form an important tranche of your discussion. 

My second point is that in the study of moral philosophy, there is very great difficulty informing a moral framework that hung together, was not opposed by counter-examples that did not have at its core a conception of God or gods.  Individual examples are easy to counter from a naturalistic framework - we do this or that because it is good for survival, serves our interests or that of the species.  An overall guide to conduct from scratch however, is much much more difficulty to frame from a naturalistic standpoint, because one keeps running into underpinning assumptions which, when rigorously examined, have religious ideas at their base.

Sounds an interesting study.  Good luck!

K

Very important is the Greek mythology of king Minos, who regularly  went up a mountain on Crete and there he got the law of god Zeus in a cave. This is important because it is reminded in Plato's Laws, which is a basic text about your theme. The whole dialogue The Laws is a walk up the same mountain, to imitate Minos' habit. In the end, Plato's idea is, that man's reason is from god, and what is derived from reason is from god. Surely the key text for your topic.

Kal and Thorwald - Happy New Year and thank you both for your insightful comments. I admit to not being as familiar with Plato's Laws compared with some of his earlier dialogs. Thank your for the recommendation. It seems that books IX and X are especially relevant to the argument I am developing. In any event, as Kal pointed out, the example from Protagoras is particularly well trod and I would like to relegate it to a footnote if possible.

I've read a book that is part of a 4 book series, authored by Thomas Cahill, with the appropriate name,  "The Hinges of History Series" . The book is, Sailing the Wine-Dark Sea: Why the Greeks Matter, and in this volume Cahill does a good job of presenting the Greek culture and how it pertains to Western culture today. He does show the modern West, even our Christain tradition, having been influenced by the Ancient Greeks. I enjoyed his rhetoric, and it was an easy read. Also fun to see where today's cultures, ideas, and religions relate to the ancients. You be the judge. I think you'll find it interesting.     Today! no reruns, Good Luck Jim;  Sterling 

As a kind of side note, there are of course traditions around how divine teachings which are dispensed from "on high" are to be applied and interpreted. In very rough parallel to the English phrase, "to read between the lines," there is a Talmudic saying that the Torah was written with "black fire on white fire," which saying the Kabbalists later delighted in as a suggestion that the "language" of the white spaces between the letters is also to be explored as sources for transformative teaching. 

Personally I'm fond of stating that If you take religious language literally, you are not taking it seriously enough.