In the UK the proposal remains the intellectual property of the author unless it is expressly assigned. Since it is presented before any formal agreement is made it does not transfer to the publisher.

In the UK the proposal remains the intellectual property of the author unless it is expressly assigned. Since it is presented before any formal agreement is made it does not transfer to the publisher.

Hi Barry Turner

Thank you for the response. Its heartening to see that UK laws are strong in this regard. While online communications have made the world a shorter place, they have also led to rather fragile agreements. As I wrote above, one can claim its Intellectual property (IP) rights on a published work, yet there is no such system made so far (that I could find) to claim the ideas shared in the proposal. Unfortunately, this lack of IP rights is being taken advantage of, by some. It is the need of the hour, that all proposals must be registered since the 1st draft, through a secure and confidential online portal, that ensures that if the IP does not reach full fruition, the author reserves the right to claim his IP and can restrict its sharing by the third party.

Regards

Waqas

Artur Braun

Thank you for your detailed response. That is my point essentially. I can never know if my intended supervisor has or has not done such a thing. There is no way to check it. But to back out of it on the very last days, and come up with an excuse that I went to holidays and I forgot to submit it, doesn't send a good signal. And such irresponsibility at this level shows that there is no limit to the abuse and unethical behavior of such a person and anything can be expected of him

Also , I really like this idea of "Journal of Research Proposals". If something can get online and can be shared, in confidentiality between the researcher and supervisor, then at-least one can claim the IP if one of them backs out at any stage.

As I said, an umbrella online commission must be set up, under which all IP rights of a proposal must be confidentially handled. By this way, even if other people can carry out your proposed idea, the original idea creator will still get his/her worthy right of citation,acknowledgement. And actually it can be a start of new collaborations

Best Regards

Waqas

To Artur Braun

Just read through www.arxiv.org . Commendable work from Cornell University, wish other institutes, specially in Europe can follow suit.

This case is suitable for the common court. In Russia, it may be considered and has a chance for a positive decision. It is necessary to have at least some dated correspondence, the dates of the creation of the files, etc., maybe the testimony of colleagues who was a witness of certain actions (but not everyone will decide to participate). But, the costs for a lawyer service... This will be compensated, with the case of a positive court decision. If no? Any case, you should look for another place of work... I saw such situation once. The plaintiff then won. However, it lasted a year. As a result, both participant left the organization... As Big Boss was very angry.

There is still such a view: if somebody is robbed, then he does something wrong. The property must be protected. As said in one old Russian movie: people can be trusted only in the most extreme case.

Thanks for your useful input to this discussion Vadim S. Gorshkov

Indeed, going to courts and eventually redeeming damages is essential in this situation. But there are some complexities when dealing with international court cases

1. Which country to file the case in ? Supervisor's or the Researcher's?

2. The Lawyer's initial fee (I know it can be waived off in case of success, but that will take time.

3. While it might be easier for a supervisor to sit out and wait for the case, even pay off lawyers, a young scientist cannot afford the costs and time

So, yes going to courts is an option for the ones who can afford the costs, but still it is basically "DAMAGE-CONTROL". What I want to initiate through this discussion is a "SERVICE- TO SAFEGUARD THE IP RIGHTS OF IDEA GENERATOR", so that such unlawful/unethical practices can be stopped at the earliest stage and the IDEA GENERATOR still has his right to look at other options.

www.arxiv.org is one such method, and I am looking into other universities that have such data sharing services as well, and bring them all under one "RESEARCH PROPOSAL IP CONTROL DATABASE". Please do keep sharing your thoughts people.

Best Regards

I meant court in your country. As a rule, decisions of foreign courts do not matter in another country.

You can try talking to the big boss. You must carefully check your position before. If he supports this situation, then strictly speaking, you do not have a choice - you have to look for another place of work, as you "cannot break the butt by the whip" (Russian proverb). In other case you should accept existing rules ("live with wolves - to howl as wolf").

Another way is to understand whether this is an isolated case, or a normal practice in your organization. If this is an exceptional case, it makes sense to find like-minded people among employees. (Once a manager in my former organization (in USA) took over my idea and was promptly “putted in place” by my most "significant" colleagues, during a routine workshop, in a very "academic" and polite manner. He realized that he was not alone in this world and everyone understands everything.). On the other hand, it is necessary to share ideas. Someone told you - you told to your neighbor. This is the process of normal communication and normal work in a scientific team. If your ideas are not appreciated, it is an evaluation not of the receiver, but of the source.

Vadim S. Gorshkov

For local cases it is easier to follow up. I am mostly talking about international IP sharing to submit to a funding for some project/post, where the "friendly minded" supervisor has taken the ideas (without a formal contract) and has been supportive of the idea (till the researcher is doing all the work) but has backed out of it on the day of submission.

If they did this way, it means you gave them opportunity. This is expirience for you. The simplest version of the struggle is the immediate publication of your text. If we are talking about a patentable idea, you must make application for patent immediately, using PCT procedure.

Unfortunately, there is no way other than to give them the opportunity. The current proposal submission methods require that one must receive the consent of the supervisor prior to IP submission. In such cases one has to show a synopsis and hint (atleast) of what he wishes to do. And in this case, as I said all process had been completed on basis of mutual trust. There is no other way as of now.

I am looking for developing a protocol in which Institutions can to take some action against such practices.

Thank you for the advice of patenting Vadim S. Gorshkov . I would definitely look into it.

In this case you should contact with proect holder. As in the case of the big boss, your position should be perfectly clear and precise. Usually this leads to rejection of the project (And most likely - future projects with their participation in this fund). In any case, you can not realize this project alone? The impasse. But nobody prevents them from submitting the same project to another fund ...

Therefore, it is necessary to make efforts as soon as possible to consolidate these ideas for you (article, patent application ...).

Duly Noted Sir. In Process

You automatically own the copyright in your text once you have written it. One way to protect your interest is to get a copy of it signed, dated and witnessed and then deposited in a safe place, say in a bank or with a lawyer. Then, if you think your text has been passed to a third party without your permission, you have the proof that you wrote it first and you own the rights to it, and can sue for infringement. But what you cannot do is force someone else to forward it to, say, a funding body.

It should be understood that bringing an intellectual property case in court is hugely expensive and unless the IP has significant value it is unlikely to be worth it. Bringing a case in a court other than in the country you live is even more costly and a legal action of this kind can run into hundreds of thousands of dollars if it is defended.

An individiual researcher unsupported by a corporation is unlikely to have the financial resources or access the legal and technical expertise that a publisher will have so it is often the case that any legal action to protect IP is not feasible.

Hiring IP lawyers and expert witnesses requires substantial payments in advance of any proceedings and losing a case would be likely to end in bankruptcy.

Barry Turner

Appreciate your input, SO what is the solution. Someone has to put an end to such practices and for this a governing body must be made to safeguard all idea sharings. Thanks

Charles Oppenheim

Thanks for the input. Yes, One has to have written proofs and consequently the resources to do the necessary action. But again this is damage control, I am looking into prevention.

Thanks

Waqas

One solution is to negotiate IP contracts in advance of submitting detailed project plans. I have done several of these negotiations and the routine is to give them enough information to attract their interest but not enough that they can take control of the project.

It is not necessarily the case that a project or proposal will be rejected unless you give maximum detail. Be wary of requests for additional data sets or research material.

Stealing of IP is in my experience getting worse as unscrupulous researchers may be able to spot lucrative opportunities the proposer has not themselves seen. This is often sold on as raw data or passed on to other researchers who may gain an advantage by have access to several sources at once.

Generally the creator of a work will hold copyright in that work, providing it meets the various criteria (original work, etc). However there are exceptions to that, eg employees (generally), assignments, contracts, work for hire and so forth. There may also be shared copyright.

Usually the situation is not clear cut, and if you think something high value (eg some confidential information that is worth a lot) you should consult a lawyer.

Barry Turner

Very useful comments. Indeed Raw Data and Ideas hoarding is becoming a common practice at institutions. Specially when applying for a lucrative funding, a researcher can only apply with one specific supervisor at a time. While the supervisor can apply for multiple funding with multiple researchers. So they (the supervisor) increase their chances by applying through various applicants. Its like a gambling problem I am afraid

Mark Perry

Thank you for the input. Highly appreciated

Irene T. Kaipiainen

In a perfect world that would definitely be the case. Unfortunately, cases of plagiarism and IP theft are happening on hourly basis in the academic world...