Modernity comes in 3 states, ideally highly interchangeable, but alas it's more linear in the past Century, give or take...:

There's probably CRYSTALISATION too...

I'd say the EPICENTER of MODERNITY probably started in Germany...

(3) Why MARVEL XMEN, not STAR TREK/WARS, are for Connoisseurs? | ResearchGate

https://www.researchgate.net/post/Why_MARVEL_XMEN_not_STAR_TREK_WARS_are_for_Connoisseurs

(3) Why must one READ MARX IN GERMAN (why DAS), LISTEN TO KINDER LEID, & WATCH HEIMAT in order to THEORISE ABOUT VAPOUR MODERNITY? | ResearchGate

https://www.researchgate.net/post/Why_must_one_READ_MARX_IN_GERMAN_why_DAS_LISTEN_TO_KINDER_LEID_WATCH_HEIMAT_in_order_to_THEORISE_ABOUT_VAPOUR_MODERNITY

I would be happy to comply to your request. But first, please follow the Lyrics. It tells story of Hans, who leaves his village, when he returns, his relatives have trouble recognising, even his mother.

You asked me What's Modernity?

Well as you know, it's a preoccupation of mine. To me, it seems Modernity started with the Reformation. Modernity is a break from the ARGRICULTURAL NORMS, where somehow, the village was not large enough, or that someone like Hans has to go far a field to seek out a living, hence the expansion of migration to British colonies like the US, Canada and Australia.

The Reformation introduce the possibility of being AN INDIVIDUAL, UNFETTERED by the COLLECTIVE NORMS. New INSTUTIONS needed to be built. Then you have GOETHE's BILDUNG ROMANCE, which unlike it's MODERN VERSION, "The Hero's Journey, it ends with DEATH OF THE INDIVIDUAL. How Geothe's story became a popular sensation of its time is something worth pondering.

Perhaps you might something to say about this posting. I only ask you not to prematurely judge POPULAR GENRES, especially ones such FAIRY TALES AND CHILDREN'S NURSERIES. I suspect MODERNITY, via the Reformation and the Guttenberg Press gave rise to the FORMATION OF THE INDIVIDUAL IN MOSTLY HIS OWN RIGHT.

These VENECULAR GENRES are also inexplicably tied with NATIONALISM, ultimately the NATION-STATE. From there, one could tie FOUCAULT'S CONCEPTION OF GOVERNMENTALITY and its NEED FOR THE CALCULATION OF ITS POPULATION.

Drazen Pehar

You struck me as someone who kinda need your writing to reach for immortality. For me, I just like connecting the dots. Any topic could developed in many directions, why would you need to insist on some kind of censorship? It strikes me as rather ironic.

You also struck as someone kinda angry and bitter. I mean no offense, it's just a hunch. Perhaps you do have something to add to MY TRAIN OF THOUGHTS. I would be very curious to see where you would take my reply.

It's a bit harsh to call Children Songs as NONSENSE. CHILDHOOD didn't exist until arguably the rise of developments like SONGS FOR CHILDREN. I would say to be INDIVIDUAL, CHILDHOOD HAD TO BE INVENTED.

So having made my defence, I hope you will grasp why CHILDREN SONGS AND NURSERY RHYMES have STEEP NATIONAL FAVOURS. If you pay attention to the British versions, it's actually still quite feudalistic. Not so for the German versions!

Best,

I also suspect TERROR is a modern invention. Previously one might have FEAR OF THE PLAGUES/ AN ANGRY GOD/... but TERROR is A FEAR OF OTHERS... ?

I am curious, therefore I write. Mostly I like putting different pieces of the puzzle(s) together.

Take this painting of Goethe, he's holding a Silhouette of possibly Charlotte. Silhouette Cut Out became very popular jn places like Germany, I think it is the predecessor of PORTRAIT PHOTOGRAPHY.

See:

How Has Paper Cutting Evolved Around The World?

https://www.culturally.co/blog/how-has-paper-cutting-evolved-around-the-world

"Silhouettes By Hand", Traditionally Cut Silhouettes - A Brief History of Silhouettes - Colonial, Victorian, Edwardian, and Modern Day Page

https://www.silhouettesbyhand.com/history

Movable Press was invented in China, and cut outs were also popular there. But MODERNITY didn't take roots in China until the 20th Century. Even during the HEIGHTS OF THE CULTURAL REVOLUTION, it WASN'T the CULT OF THE INDIVIDUAL. It WAS THE CULT OF THE DICTATOR.

European Romanticism seems to me to be inexplicably tied to the CULT OF THE SELF AS THE INDIVIDUAL.

Image Source: https://www.britannica.com/video/Johann-Wolfgang-von-Goethe-works-love-affairs/-194144

You wrote: "I also suspect TERROR is a modern [sic] invention. Previously one might have FEAR OF THE PLAGUES/ AN ANGRY GOD/... but TERROR is A FEAR OF OTHERS... ?"

I dunno. I think Viking raiders, rampaging Mongolian hordes, and other barbarians at the gates were pretty fearsome in their time.

Karl Pfeifer

Terror and Fear are ontologically different. Fear is silent, Terror is an UNHEARD HOLLER.

You're invoking a species of the "if a tree falls in the forest" conundrum? But pace vous, some folks do go on about their fear.

Karl Pfeifer

Boy it took me a while to figure out your last comment. So lets come down to Earth. I take it you mean:

Fears aren't always silent or unacknowledged—many people talk about their fears quite openly.

Fair point. Thanks for that, you response has prompted me to refine the difference between fear and terror as invoked by style of architecture, whereby corridors as they are manifested in MODERN ARCHITECTURE, hence MODERNITY, are places where people go to their death. Panopticon is not about death, but DOCILITY.

The difference between fear and terror largely lies in intensity and immediacy.

FEAR is a less intense, longer-lasting state of anxiety or worry, while terror is an intense, immediate reaction to a perceived danger.

FEAR is a general feeling of unease or anxiety about a possible danger or threat. It's a more manageable, sometimes rational reaction that allows us to prepare or respond to risks. For example, feeling fear before a big presentation or in a dark, unfamiliar place is common. FEAR can be long-lasting, and it might not always be overwhelming.

TERROR, on the other hand, is a more intense and overwhelming form of fear. It’s usually sudden and more visceral, often involving a sense of immediate danger that triggers a "fight-or-flight" response. TERROR is typically short-lived but can feel paralyzing in the moment, like seeing an intruder in your home or encountering an immediate, life-threatening event.

You started out by making odd (to me) remarks about differences between fear and terror, but I do find your last answer more illuminating. For me the relevant point is that they often coincide: a feeling of fear can be a feeling of terror and vice versa. In different contexts, we might use the terms to draw different distinctions or make different emphases, but there are no characterizations that apply unequivocally across the board. The concepts are also vague; if you try to deploy them in a manner suggestive of a spectrum you will have no sharp boundaries between them and will have borderline cases that spark disagreements. But your idea of terror qua "modern invention" is a nonstarter for me.

An interesting side-question: Can one feel terror without fear? (Can one fearlessly face up to terror? As the character Ripley in the movie Alien, perhaps....)

Hi Karl Pfeifer

I wrote a whole tonne of stuff, anyway ResearchGate refreshed, so I lost a whole of lot stuff. Not the first time this has happened, in fact, I had a few too many times happened to me. I console myself with the idea that second time round would be stronger than first time. Anyway, this is to say, I will get back to you. For now, I am thinking of subjects, objects, and sobjects... I recall you referring me a paper on objects long time ago.

Karl Pfeifer

Lets trying guessing games... firstly, I had forgotten I already started exploring terror versus back in 2023:

See:

(6) What is the difference between Horror & TERROR? | ResearchGate

https://www.researchgate.net/post/What_is_the_difference_between_Horror_TERROR

(6) What's the DIFFERENCES between COURTYARDS & CORRIDORS? Why might CORRIDORS be MORE DEATHLY than the PANOPTICON? How might GOVERN-ABILITY be relevant? | ResearchGate

https://www.researchgate.net/post/Whats_the_DIFFERENCES_between_COURTYARDS_CORRIDORS_Why_might_CORRIDORS_be_MORE_DEATHLY_than_the_PANOPTICON_How_might_GOVERN-ABILITY_be_relevant

Actually where I now want to muck around is to go back to REIGN OF TERROR. One could trace that to Stasi. Maoist denouncements, in contrast, are not terror. My accupunturist doctor describe an incident where she WITNESSed a MAOIST MOB chased some people/ person over the cliff. I would say that's more HORROR.

I suppose I would like to fuse the subject and object as a Holobiont, separate entities but undivisble, hence my concept of the SOBJECT.

So modernity and terror are subject/ object, highly interchangeable, but indivisible. This means the connections they form becomes a SOBJECT/ HOLOBIONT.

See where I am trying to go with this?

CORRIDORS are INTEGRAL to TERROR, think no further than corridors found in Stasi Headquarter...

Whereas in Maoism, HORROR IS LINKED TO THE COURTYARDS...

How about helping me a little here Karl Pfeifer

@KP

Take H.K as the most recent example: the open trial of the IV-VII, would the STASI do such a thing? I think not, though the Nazi did do show trials. Just think of how the Nazi "gathered" anyone associated with Stauffenberg post assassin attempt. This has happened to the 4-7 gang chain.

Show trials are intimidations. Zersetzung is a targetted form of terror. What's the difference? Something to do with eyes and the gaze...

Conside REIGN OF TERROR AS A TROPE (don't get why everyone confuses meme with trope):

This trope is for the aftermath of a revolution or rebellion, when the former leaders of the uprising find themselves in power and may become tyrants themselves, while the ideals that led to the revolution are forgotten by the populace and buried under bloody infighting between former allies.

This is often a consequence of The Revolution Will Not Be Civilized and having an army of Knights Templar in your ranks.

A subtrope of The Purge. Compare and contrast with Full-Circle Revolution, which has virtually no change in the way things are governed after the revolution. These revolutions are compatible in that a revolution can produce no real change even after ruthlessly slaughtering large chunks of the population, and indeed, after all this slaughter, people may be quite content to merely get back to the old ways. The Imperial variant is Crushing the Populace, where you make sure no one will oppose you again through sheer brutality.

Quote Source: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ReignOfTerror

Put it this way: George Orwell's ANIMAL FARM perfectly encapsulates the REIGN OF TERROR. We think this trope only exists in Communistic (what did Marx really understood about of collective cultures!) TAKEOVERs. But look NO FURTHER THAN DER CAPITAL HILL... are they not saying, depending where you stand as OBJECT/ SUBJECT, it's ALL ARE EQUAL BUT SOME ARE MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS.

T-rump just goes the other way: Some/we are less equal as others, but we can be all equal (richest person = the poorist).

Lots of people are still scratching their heads about WHY?

It's precisely because the machinery behind T-rump 2.0 could project such SOBJECT.

See:

(6) Why does one need to still distinguish virtual from actual in the META-VERSE? | ResearchGate

https://www.researchgate.net/post/Why_does_one_need_to_still_distinguish_virtual_from_actual_in_the_META-VERSE

(6) Where might the new iron/ silicone/ lithium curtain be found? | ResearchGate

https://www.researchgate.net/post/Where_might_the_new_iron_silicone_lithium_curtain_be_found

(6) What if governments are the corporations, and the big 6 (Ama zone, Ap-ple, Face!book, G oogle, Micro soft & Tes(t)la) are the des potic states? | ResearchGate

https://www.researchgate.net/post/What_if_governments_are_the_corporations_and_the_big_6_Ama_zone_Ap-ple_Facebook_G_oogle_Micro_soft_Testla_are_the_des_potic_states

(6) If there's a long queue for those to sign up to go to Mars, why did we send animals to space first? | ResearchGate

https://www.researchgate.net/post/If_theres_a_long_queue_for_those_to_sign_up_to_go_to_Mars_why_did_we_send_animals_to_space_first

(6) Is it POSSIBLE THAT THE TRUE SHEPERDS of PRINCIPLED JUSTICE are LOCKED UP in PSYCHIATRIC WARDS such as BREMEN-ÖST? | ResearchGate

https://www.researchgate.net/post/Is_it_POSSIBLE_THAT_THE_TRUE_SHEPERDS_of_PRINCIPLED_JUSTICE_are_LOCKED_UP_in_PSYCHIATRIC_WARDS_such_as_BREMEN-OeST

Tieu-Tieu Le Phung

Where/when does your notion of modernity start, historically? With Descartes? Then I suppose the idea of an (?quasi-) institutional Reign of Terror (la Terreur) associated with Robespierre can be considered as somehow a (distant) consequence of modernity (inter multis alia). But that is not terror-in-general but a highly specific notion with a capital-T proper name.

So you've given up on Neo-mung-bean and reverted to Tea-for-two, huh?

Karl Pfeifer

I admit, I am fumbling and muddling through this IDEA of TERROR. But I think there's a nugget to be found. When did MODERNITY start? Firstly, I am going with Hayden White's HISTORIOGRAPHY. I would say it began SOMETIME with INDIVIDUALS MIGRATING ELSEWHERE. What kind of MATERIAL CONDITIONS did these new PATTERNS OF HUMAN RESETTLEMENT require/ depend on?

In Economic History, we are apt to go with NECESSARY/ SUFFICIENT CONDITIONS to SUPPORT CHANGE. Explaining the INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION is a CLASSICAL ECONOMIC HISTORY 101 EXERCISE. I don't recall any writers focus on the MIGRATION FROM RURAL TO URBAN LANDSCAPES. Is more like TECHNOLOGICAL DETERMINISM/ REDUCTIONISM: Was it the railway? Was it steam power? Heck, was it COLONIALISM/ IMPERIALISM?

I think what got lost are the INDIVIDUAL STORIES OF MIGRATION. In German NURSERY RHYMES (along with their CONCEPT OF CHILDHOOD), only do I find such narratives of ECONOMIC MIGRATIONS. None is more fascinating than the HANSCHEN KLEIN. The song unfolds from the MOTHER'S PERSPECTIVE. Hans goes off to a world "hinein", when he finally returns, his mother struggle to recognise him. This narrative of the PRODIGAL SON returning goes all the way back to ODESSEY. But in German narratives, they stay in the DORF.

Similarly in HEITMAT, a very incisive moment in German Cultural History, HANS also goes away. He comes back from US like a fat cow. The whole DORF struggles to make sense of this PRODICAL SON. In essence, he becomes a FOREIGNER. Meanwhile, it's Maria, the mother who's holding up the roof over her head. I remember thinking this new Hans is somewhat abnoxious. He comes back, dripping in wealth but he is no longer that young man who left long ago.

What are the NECESSARY CONDITIONS that enable INDIVIDUAL MIGRATION? That's where you might say is the ONSET OF MODERNITY. Somehow this is connected to how IMMIGRATION (not EMIGRATION) is the LIGHTENING ROD that it is in recent times.

Karl Pfeifer

To be precise, it's pointless to contest where one stands from LEFT TO RIGHT. That's barking up the wrong tree. SURPLUS CAPITAL HAS DRIED UP. But who is HOGGING THE SURPLUS, that's what is being contested. That TROPE OF THE LAND OF THE FREE/ OPPORTUNITY is over. In Weimar Germany and what follows after, it was the lack of employment and deflation. Now it's EMPLOYMENT / HOUSING FOR WHOM/ WHAT. No one is better qualify than MUSK when it comes to JOB ELIMINATION/ CREATION. He read Marx aged 13 in original German. The STATE IS NO LONGER LINKED TO NATION, IT'S A CORPORATION caught up with DESPOTS. Now it's all HAIL TO THE US CORP, one a JOKER, who has the full ears of the ONE WITH THE CROWN.

Where is the SURPLUS CAPITAL?

You are either TERRIFIED/ HORRIFIED or both... it depends on where the CREATION/ DESTRUCTION OF CAPITAL GOES. Deep Throat wouldn't know where to follow the money. For a start, there's NO LONGER the old WASHINGTON POST as a a NEWSLETTER.

Be Fearful When Others Are Greedy And Greedy When Others Are Fearful.

But only if you have spare change.

Karl Pfeifer

Neo Mung Bean is still around. She comes up with crazy ideas, some could actually be useful. I have stop erasing her trails. It's more like switching between the world flat/ round. It's always a rude awaking. That much is true. Heck, if Homer Simpson can actually be POTUS, why not me as Neo Ming! Even if it's self assigned.

We are way past STATE BUILDING. IT'S now, INCORPORATING THE NATION. Too bad if you're a late comer. Heck the queue is already long enough.