Dear Aieman,

Empirical observation of family development convinces me that most of our identity lies beyond our control, although personal traits--- which are quite different from identity-- can propel us in unexpected directions. Most of my three children´s reactions to situations have been predictable from birth. In the main, there has not been much change. Yet, one of them has used his socially acquired talents to give his life an unforeseen turn. Hence identity equals psychodynamic energy plus, to a certain degree, social influence.

Yes, "it is a complex amalgam of both of these..." As Nelson has mentioned rather correctly, I completely agree that "most of our identity lies beyond our control"... However, the surroundings are also important... Even a very strong personality may have difficulties to resist, if exposed to a constant influence from his/her social environment... What is right and what is wrong is; however, most probably a generational choice..., not what the parents would have liked to have seen...

That Svetlozar is a genius! Now I know why my children turned out so strange. It´s the fault of their generation, not my fault!

Nelson, at least it´s a good excuse to not blame yourself... isn´t it....:-)

It´s a poor excuse, dear Svetlozar: while they are minors, the law blames me for their strange misdeeds.

Aieman,

I think you may be interested in McAdams's life story model of identity. Here are some references:

McAdams, D. P. (2001). The psychology of life stories. Review of General Psychology, 5(2), 100.

McAdams, D. P. (1985). Power, Intimacy, and the Life Story: Personological Inquiries Into Identity. Dorsey Press.

Thank you Reem for the references.

May I ask what your definition of identity is? Since it isn't equivalent to personality in literature at least.

Biologically speaking, identity, to my opinion is beyond our control. However, a developmental process must follow: so as to form other human social traits towards a social interaction. To my view, the truth is that identity should cover both aspects, either psychological or social. if psychological it should regard formation aspects of the "self", if social it should regard a communication process with the significant others. I am actually writing a paper on Identity as a cultural heritage component, and actually got stuck with exemplifying my own national and Albanian ethnic identity, as so-called political ( not making policies) contexts have simply artificially changed their status. As an ignorant in psychology and social science, I am trying to establish so called narrative structures, for the purpose of a semiotic method in terms of application. Hope I could help.

I think it is a bit of both. One on hand we come to a world of not our own making and the social structures that we come to be part of shape the way we identify as individuals and the way we view and interact with others. On the other hand, we contribute to who we are by the choices we make.

Both are important in development of identity, but they play out in different ways. Our biological identity for example, creates tendencies for us to see the world or respond to stimuli in specific ways.A gross example would be fight or flight response. Some people tend more to fight while others tend more to flight. Social factors however impact on the edges of our personality traits. They lead us to think in certain ways based on our existing biology. So a person who has a tendency to fight back, but receives negative feedback about this tendency from an early age will suppress that response. Similarly a person who is naturally positive will read negative feedback as a challenge to try harder, while one with a negative tendency will see negative feedback as a sign of their inability to continue trying. These are gross examples only of course.

You might be interested in Vignoles work, which is compatible with both, in my opinion:

Vignoles, V. L. (2011). Identity motives. In: Handbook of identity theory and research (pp. 403-432). New York: Springer.

Best,

Patrick

I am researching the identity changes in post deployed war veterans, and through my own experiences believe that at one stage my self identity (soldier) and my social identity (soldier) were compatible.  After deployment  to the Falklands it stayed the same until my discharge.  Then the pressure of the 'social identity' of civilian was in constant conflict with my self identity of soldier....and still is.

My identity was forged by the removing of the 'civilian' out of me during basic training (rather than the military being 'beaten' into me).  I still now consider my self identity as 'soldier'...which is a tad weird but what I know is that I do not consider myself a civilian.

I would be interested in any research that includes a conflict between self and social identity and management systems to this phenomenon.

dear aieman

construction of identity is massively influenced by process such as

'' identity conflict. identity commitment, identity  confirmation, social distance, identity divergence, identity  convergence, identity , social pyshological ideological alientation, and organizational culture

Comparing what is real and what is the law is not a good thing to do.  The law works without emotion, we do not.  

I would like to see research that investigates just how these 'social structures' were developed... on the back of what? capitalism? greed and avarice? religion? survival? nature? 

In the military we placed the group before the individual (and if you did not it was the system that would direct you to becoming an effective team player i.e. no promotion, the military is a meritocracy within the rules of the military; in civilian life it is generally accepted that the individual comes before the group, and it seems the system punishes those who place the group before the individual (maybe divide and conquer has some merit).  

I can talk about my feelings of identity alienation when I left the forces; not being a member of the military culture and not being a member of civilian culture i.e. I did not, and still do not, understand the culture of civilians...I just cannot see the benefit of placing the individual above the group (and I do realise that it is not everyone that does this in civvy street, as it is not every person in the military that places the group above themselves)... I believe that narcissistic individualism only makes sense in a  capitalist or classical liberalist system... where the ownership of money is placed above the welfare of the poor and needy. 

I believe that developing identity is a collaborative process between the person and their perceptions of their own experiences of the influences in their life (parents, teachers, siblings, friends and so-on... I believe that when self-identity is affirmed by social-identity and society, it becomes a very strong identity, however if central identities are in conflict (like the military and civilian) identity interference takes place, which, research states, can impact negatively on emotional and mental health well-being, therefore a danger to one's identity.

So maybe my identity of soldier (my self-identity) was affirmed by my social identity (military) and vice versa, and maybe I hold onto my identity of soldier because the alternative social identity is civilian, and that does not affirm my self-identity (which maybe a safety anchor.  Therefore to become a civilian I would have to feel unsafe in an unsafe environment to feel safe enough to change my identities to that of a civilian.  Maybe...

Identity formation may well be beyond our consciousness, however gaining insight into what we are, and what we are perceived as, goes a long way to enabling a better understanding of 'us' therefore can lead to the process of changing identities... but if we are at odds with our central identities we may believe we are making changes but really we are not...

Why have I not become a civilian?  Simply because civilian culture does not attract me... and I am not saying one is better than the other I am saying that they have different ways of developing identities, and they also have conflicting cultural aspects and qualities...these are my own thoughts and opinions and they are not aimed at any individual or group...  

A myriad of parameters may affect identity formation. The fact is that identity development may be formed or reformed by a large number of norms and values. Macorstructural and micro stuructural elements encompassing sociopolitical, cultural as well as personal specificies can shape or reshape  manner and praxis of identity formaion. The norms and touchstones specified by organizations, intimately tied up with the organizational culures, are far from unequivocal and symmetical in different countries. Rather, identity development is fraught with complexities and idiosyncracies of the relevant cultural circumstances.

According to Brewer and Gardner (1996) we have three kinds of identitiy:  1) individual, 2) relational and 3) collective. " Individual" identity refers to who we are as a person and what attributes we have, " relational " identity refers to the attributes that the person claims for the people whom s/he is related to and "collective" identity refers to the attributes that a person claims for the group(s) s/he is believed to be a member of. Therefore, some attributes which the person has are out of his control, but some are the ones that he can choose himself.

thanks Ms Bahman for this classification , can you share the reference please?

You are welcome Dr. Rahimi! The reference is:

Brewer, M. B. & Gardner, W. (1996). Who is this “we”? Levels of collective identity

     and self  representations. Journal of  Personality and Social Psychology, 71(1),

    83- 93.

subjective (self) identification is affirmed by objective statements...so how do you decide which forms the identity?

My self identity is different than what some of those who know me think...and when my actions do not fit with their idea of me, they say I am eccentric...that is when they affirm my identity...this seems to be a subjectivist v objectivist argument in fluffy sheeps clothing...