Can we be judged in an ethical way if we are immoral in our dreams? Reality, and not dreams, matters regarding the question.

Interesting question that does not suggest a path to answers. I dont yet know of any ethical standards to which people in a dream state could be expected to conform to since (almost) by definition the unconscious mind is not under the constraints usually obliging people making ethical decisions. Morality is, after all, a social construct and there does not seem, so far as we know, possible dreaming participants in a dream state. I think the key aspect of morality and ethics is that the unethical act must either be possible, but by choice avoided, or actual and avoided by choice in a space that impacts on other people. Trivially, judgement implies judges and it is hard to know who might be judges in a dream. Faith-based belief systems heavily exploit our internalised ethical judgements as a means of at-a-distance social control, sometimes for good sometimes clearly causing various degrees of personal distress.

In a related area, the issue of unconsciousness has challenged the medical profession when dealing with the ethical issues around the care and treatment of patients with varying degrees of unconsciousness. And here we go on the first contentious issue: what exactly is unconsciousness/or dreaming?

A useful discussion of the medical issues is found in:

The Ethics of Unconsciousness

by Moheb Costandi

June 19, 2012

http://www.dana.org/News/Details.aspx?id=43226

With several references to pertinent literature.

And the sad but instructive legal case in:

Fenwick, Peter. 1987. Somnambulism and the law: a review. Behavioral Sciences & the Law 5(3): 343–357.

Dear Belemir,

I am a developmental psychologist and I am relatively well aware of the moral developmental literature. For example, I am much interested in Kohlberg's theory of moral development.

"Can we be judged in an ethical way if we are immoral in our dreams?"-- You ask.

I do not think that we can be judged in an ethical way if we are immoral in our dreams. Our dreams are what they are, but they are are not moral or immoral, ethical or unethical and the like. It is clearly the case that to steal in our dreams does not make us thief. Rather you are an innocent because you didn't steal anything in the it in a real world.

As I see it, we are a thief if we steal something from another or have the intention of doing it. Nothing of this happens we dream that we are stealing.

KInd regards,

Orlando

Dreams are a form of internal entertainment and have no involvement with morality or immorality. Fantasy and dreams are not the same.

Can we be judged in an ethical way if we are immoral in our dreams? Reality, and not dreams, matters regarding the question.

Firstly thank you for reply dear Orlando. You mentioned "intention" at the end of your reply. So you mean, intentions as important as actions. I think, dreams involve our hidden intentions so that we can discuss their moral dimension. Orlando M Lourenço

Fantasy and dreams are not the same. That is a really good point. But another question come to exist. Intention or action, which one is more important in morality?

Stanley Wilkin

I do not think so! We cannot be judged while we are unconscious!

In the past, intentionality was considered as separate from action. Therefore if you imagined yourself doing something reprehensible but did not act than that demonstrated character. Nowadays, thinking of something is enough to get you jailed. i am making no comment on either result. Times change.

Dear Belemir,

Intentions mean a lot in morality. Suppose that you wanted to steal someone. Even though you had not stolen because, for example, a policeman was nearby, you are morally and legally responsible. Not to steal because of external reasons is to steal ultimately. Equally, if, for example, you push a door and, without intending it, you kill a person who was behind the door, you did not commit an immoral action and no judge will say that commit a crime. Of course, dreams may involve hidden intentions in Freud's terms. But we are not conscious of them. I even think that for a action to be judged moral or immoral we need to know the intention underlying such an action. So, both intentions and actions should be taken into account for us to declare a given action as moral or immoral.

Kind regards,

Orlando.

Dreams are there to keep you asleep. What you do in your dreams has nothing to do with the reality. You do not act upon your dreams but dreams sometimes fulfill your desires mostly in a concealed and for you acceptable way.

Dreams and their content are not within the conscious control of the person dreaming. It is not clearly established what the causes of dreams are and how they manifest. This being the case, think of dreams as a sort of fiction and you experience it for what it is worth. You are not ethically or morally responsible for the contents of dreams.. It is possible that one may wake up with negative feelings such as guilt or shame after experiencing one of those "unethical" or "immoral" dreams, but you are not responsible and so get over it.

Everyone agrees, being conscious is essential to be judged in an ethical way. Some people can control their dream so they have a conscious. Can we discuss their behavior being moral or immoral?

Belemir,

Please assist us by defining what you have in mind when you use the terms, 'moral' and 'immoral' and the cultural context that is your reference point. Thanks.

No real dream can be controlled while you are asleep. If you can control them they are not dreams de facto. There are four dream theories in psychology. Those you most benefit from are creative inputs. The one who invented the sawing machine dreamt how to do a whole in the needle. John Lennon dreamed about his famous song "yesterday" and then woke up and wrote it. Our brain is detoxified during the sleep, many good ideas come when you wake up. Some wake up for a while and write down there new creative inputs, other get them after s full night sleep. Some experience their most awful dreams or nightmares during the wolf-hour = between 3 and 4 in the night. This is due to our biology. Victor Frankl always felt pity for people with nightmares. However in the concentration camp he did not wake them up because no nightmare could be more awful than the reality there.

We studied children with leukemia. After bone-marrow aspirations they had nightmares. When the hospital introduced anestesia the nightmares decreased.