At first, I wish to thank you for asking this very interesting question.

I like to add subjects like history of anatomy, history of pathological inventions, artistic morphology and artistic osteology to the technical curriculim of medicine and surgery.

Regards,

Shankhadeep.

A typical course in the field of Mathematics is the History of Mathematics; I would also add a course like the "Beauty of Mathematics".

Thank you, Shankhadeep and Abdellah !

You add to the «beauty» of answers !

(But what if your students complain that they don't have enough time to devote to their fundamental issues?)

Kind regards, M. 

This is not just an important question, but a core principle that must be followed. I seriously think that it must not be contemplated but executed. Scientific inquiry without philosophy is empty. Science without art is just a bunch of procedures without any beauty. Science without history lack coherence in its trail of discovery.

It goes the same in the other direction. The humanities field is enriched by the structure of scientific inquiry and in today's world.  Science and technology form an important part of our society, and its impact must be analyzed and contemplated in the humanities and integrated into it.

I feel that your suggestion is excellent path to follow for both scientists and humanists bridging the gap between them by people who speak both languages

Maria, I congratulate you for bringing this up.

Dear Maria,

In fact such courses from humanities, ethics and morality are very vital to keep the advancement of science and technology and economical gains of society stable and not to sabotage it self to destruction. Lack of not only low cultural knowledge but lack of ethical training and behaviors  gained there off causes formation of wrong social systems. 

Dear @Maria, let me remember about one fine thread related to this one of yours! The interconnection between Humanities and Engineering are obvious. Also, Interdisciplinary research bring it to the light and we do develop new curricula! There are many examples for!

https://www.researchgate.net/post/In_what_ways_will_science_students_benefit_from_learning_arts_subjects_like_history_geography_literature_music_and_other_languages

I think there is scope of adding humanities or non-technical skills in the traditional technical subjects. But it needs a careful formulation of the same.

To make the students behaviorally strong along with technical skills, the following courses may be introduced:

1. Moral and professional ethics

2. Behavioral concepts and issues ( including Doctors, patients, and society)

3. Personality ans Development

4. Cultural Variations Across Countries and Technical Profession

Dear Maria,

There is a Hungarian expression “professional barbarian”. They are degree holders who are totally indifferent to culture (art, literature, music, etc.) even they are proud of this imperfectness. Unfortunately, about 90% of my students belong to this category, even some part of Hungarian scientists. I have tried to build literature, art and philosophy into my lectures and publications but my success is rather limited.

Dear Maria,

I believe the interdisciplinary character is beneficial.

I had architectural design concepts, urban planning and law associated with legal expertise and labor laws for construction and was very  nice to see beyond civil engineering

Best Regards,

Vanessa

Thank you, dear Kamal !!!

Oh boy! How I missed your precious, both wise and humouristic comments!

Bless you! 

Thank you, Iolanda.

I, of course agree with all that's said.

We all agree.

Nevertheless, I would be looking for contra-arguments... But your arguments in favour aqre of course, highly valuable, to give me the strength to build a discipline proposal.

Thank you all!

Maria,

Cecilia's Analysis is correct in offering counter arguments. If offered as an elective the question will be if the students enroll. Another point is that engineering and scientific majors are already stretched in the scope of material offered and fitting additional courses in the curriculum is cumbersome. also, if a steering committee from the private sector is involved in the curriculum assessment, they would argue more for business courses that meet their needs instead of more humanities.

I would argue that  graduate courses that deviates from specialization would be met with resistance, unless one can find a direct relationship I would leave it for undergraduate studies.

My Utopian University includes a core curriculum covering the essentials of knowledge from a scientific perspective: tools for critical thinking and transdisciplinary research, mathematics, physics, cosmology, biology, geography, anthropology, sociology, consciousness studies, perception, language studies, literature, visual arts, music, and theater. Students choose from this menu, including courses in three general categories (natural sciences, human sciences, and the arts), growing from this core phase into their chosen areas of specialization, with an extremely flexible curriculum and guidance from mentors working in the students' chosen fields. Degree levels, including the distinction between graduate and undergraduate studies, are not part of the plan. There are no exams, just projects with concrete goals designed to acquire the abilities and values required for success in future undertakings. A credit system is used, the number of credits taken depending on the goals of the student. The classroom setting is de-emphasized in favor of working in "real world" settings, and students contribute to improve the living conditions of the society that sustains the educational system, which is offered to qualified, motivated students at no cost to them or their families.

Dear Maria,

Thank you for another excellent question and as you can probably guess from what you know of me, it is a question dear to my "humanities" heart!

If you all will pardon me, for the sake of convenience I'll use RG's use of "scientist" to refer to all of you physicians, engineers, technologists, etc.  An English idiom from what a baseball referee says is pertinent:  "I have to call them like I see them."  I've long felt that social studies, humanities, and fine arts are lacking in the program of study of scientists beginning with undergraduate school.

This complete focus on the science (for 8, 10, or 12 years!) creates scientists whose vision and world view are limited to their discipline.  (Sorry, I have to call them like I see them.  It's not just my opinion; it's a fact often discussed in academia.)  This applies to science education in the US and any other country that follows that model.  It doesn't apply to countries, universities, or individuals that include humanistic study with the scientific.

This total focus on the scientific results in well-prepared professionals who often miss the broader picture in their decisions, procedures, results, etc.  To quote an old cliché, they miss seeing the forest for looking at a single tree.  They fail to consider alternatives, to consider the human element, to feel empathy or sympathy, to be compassionate, or to look beyond their immediate (successful) results at the effects caused by those results.  Consider, for example, the endless TV commercials on medicines.  They mention the one thing the medicine addresses and then name numerous serious side effects.  There are even some that say, "These results were obtained in animal trials.  The effects of "whatever" have not been tested on humans."  I was shocked when I first saw that on a medicine commercial and concerned that the FDA would allow the medicine to be sold without human trials.

One could write volumes on the benefits of social studies, humanities, and fine arts for scientists.  Assuming that many scientists agree, what should be done to rectify the situation?  The integration of those disciplines into science branches must begin at the undergraduate level.  The graduate level is too specialized to allow for more than just incorporating a bit of the humanistic into existing science courses. 

On the undergraduate level, this change can begin with a faculty member bringing it up at a faculty meeting.  Perhaps the department can be persuaded to amend their requirements or pre-requisites to include a selection of courses that students may choose from social studies, humanities, and fine arts. 

On the graduate level, if additional courses cannot be added to or substituted in the curriculum, then it's up to individual professors to include aspects of humanities in science courses that lend themselves to it.  If class time doesn't allow, humanities material could be included as "outside readings" or a term paper. 

And yet another wordy response from the guy with far too many words and too few ideas.  I'll bet Maria is sorry she invited me to this discussion!

Best regards,

John   

Thank you, dear Cecilia. 

You touched the important fundamental issue, that I have to consider. 

My country is bankrupt and there is no money for education.

But fees are, obviously a question to consider. And this nearly destroys the issue of multidisciplinarity in the academic world. 

In my particular case, I have been collaborating free of charges in a Masters Course of Anatomy for Artists in the School of Arts. And the fact that I learnt so much and fell in love with the subject, that this is partly where I got the idea of doing the exact oposite, and bringing the Arts and the History of Arts to the Medical curricula, probably, much probasbly in the context of an interchange of Lecturers.

It might even prove useful and enriching for both parts, if we could mingle the students and they could also learn more from the interchange.

As for my particular case, I remember that I devoted the year off from school, before entering the Faculty of Medicine, to travell and learn foreign culture, and to follow a course of Arts, that taught me drawing and photography techniques.

Both were trtemendously useful subjects in my medical practice and in teaching anatomy.

My parents spent a lot of money on this, as they considered (well) that it would be important for my education.

Unfortunately, modern students don't have money to spend on extra courses and they depend on the Government to provide them with the best education that they well deserve.

P.S. -  I am such slow writer, that I crossed my answer with three more, that add value to the issue, so I come back to edit my reply:

Thank you, dear Kamal, the same goes for our Nova Lisbon Medical School: They also undergo Ethics and Legal issues, History of Sciences, as a complement to their core disciplines. And I was very much interested in hearing your expert opinion. Thank you! (I do know that once I convince the Board, the money issue would turn into peanuts, even if we end up teaching for free...just for the fun of it!)

Dear Arturo, you are right. Thank you. The only way to verify if students enroll is to propose the subject. (so far, no one has enrolled in a course of Arts, in the Medical course, bu I do notice that they apply in great number for the optional Regional Anatomy diissection courses and History of Medficine, to the point of having to be pre-selected)

Dear David,

Thank you. The idea of «critical tools for better scientific thought» is absolutely precious!

Dear John !

Your contribute is as precious as a diamond, found in the sand. Reading your thoughts is as enjoyable as the lenght of your words. As you well know, I am a strong defender warrior of multidisciplinarity and interdisciplinary exchange. Thank you, dearly!

To answer this good question, I shall borrow a wisdom from Jesus Christ : Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.'" Applied to university education, a student who is taught Medicine, Engineering, Chemistry...etc. alone will become confined into one narrow mold which deprives him/her of valuable human knowledge  that is pertaining to the specialization & from which a broadening of horizons is procured.

As a humanist by degree and by training, I'd like to see an engineer and a mathematician and a physicist with the heart and mind of a humanist! 

Thank you, dear Nizar.

Music for my christian ears!

Dear Marwan, we do need and complement each others. It takes all kinds to build a Society. Thank you!

Greetings Maria.

I am a professor at the University of Las Tunas in the Specialty of Industrial Engineering, me in my classes I relate everything they have above both you and colleagues who have answered your question, it appears that want those students who in the future will be engineers with not only technical knowledge but a general culture so that they are not mechanical in his actions as citizens of this world.

I would certainly do so. We need a holistic education. We do not want to create narrow minded specialists that are ignorant in all the other disciplines that do not concern their limited area of knowledge. In fact, at the Faculty of Chemistry of the Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México they have a very successful course: Science and Art. It allows students to appreciate art and to learn about the relationships between the humanities and the natural sciences.

Dear Cecilia,

Dear All,

Unfortunately, many scientists(?) do not agree with the enthusiastic phrases of Kamal. I think each of his words is right and just. But not the adjectives “right and just” are really important but that without possessing cultural values a specialist cannot do his/her job as it should be done. Without holistic knowledge it cannot be perfectly/suitably study the “tiny” secrets of nature. If a scientist is not human cannot serve humanity.

„Will scientists be teaching humanities?” I think with courses nobody can become a culturally cultivated man or scientist. One should “consume” with understanding cultural values. One should naturally achieve that culture be a necessity.

Dear All,

I would teach cultural entomology but nobody is interested. Such is life!

Dear Andras, 

I like the Hungarian expression " professional barbarians"  who are prevalent in any society. 

As a multidisciplinary researcher I have employed science in humanities, humanities in social science, and both science and humanities in medical science.

I do NOT see humanities as humanistic personalities. However, I favor integration of skills and disciplines, since it may offer a new perspective.

Here are some examples of my multidisciplinary projects:

• Effective patient-specialist relationship model for the 3rd millennium (discourse analysis + sociolinguistics + medical informatics + communication skills + public health)
• Easy Reading Online Bookstore System (information technology + programming + management & business)
• The Third World phenomenology (anthropology + political science + sociology + international relations + economics + phenomenology)
• ....

So, yes! The study of humanities and principles of social science should be promoted within other disciplines, except natural science.

Just as humanities courses are necessary for the preparation of scientists, the natural sciences have an important place in the formation of social scientists, humanists, and artists. I find that many students have a negative view of the natural sciences, fueled by a distrust of the unknown and caricatures of evil scientists in the media. Last week I began teaching a seminar called "Art in the Embodied Mind" in the Master's and Doctorate in Arts programs at the University of Guanajuato. The topics to be covered include consciousness theory, neuroscience, visual perception, and neuroaesthetics (including its applications in arts education and production). Only three students signed up (maybe a few more will appear next week), but I hope to build from this humble beginning.

This question is similar with a previous one. I will repeat the essence  my answer:

I think the best tactic is tow bridge the two cultures of C. P.Snow:

https://www.google.gr/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCEQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fsciencepolicy.colorado.edu%2Fstudents%2Fenvs_5110%2Fsnow_1959.pdf&ei=u_DDVMaLJ5fvaKSVgIgB&usg=AFQjCNFUDeGIrZrsI8tpp7HJC-70CpxvKw&sig2=-goCzQq85XYqg2v6OKwZQA&bvm=bv.84349003,d.d2s 

Bridge the tow cultures of C. P. Snow:

http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/students/envs_5110/snow_1959.pdf 

I'd like to refer to C.P. Snow's lecture titled 'The Two Cultures', wherein his central thesis is that the division between humanities education and the sciences has proven to be a major hindrance in solving the worlds problems.  Science without humanity, throughout history has often proven to be a destructive force.  It is imperative that the sciences inform the humanities just as the humanities should inform and temper scientific pursuits.  After all, at the end of the day sciences are for the service of humankind.  If we take science in its own cold light alone then for who are the fruits of scientific progress for?

Yes ! C.P. Snow !!! My hero !

Thank you all!

PS - just a little note to add to Kamal's excelent comments: That dynamite thread in Leonardo, actually comes out of his Nombril. (not what we all first thought ! ?! ) After some short analysis, I should point out that the geometrical center of the Vitruvius man, as depicted by Leonardo da Vinci, corresponds to the nombril. - and I've always wondered where Adam's or Eve's body center is...

(I couldn't resist some kind of practical joke, could I????)

Dear Maria,

I'm sure that if you introduce disciplines of Arts and History, it will be a great blessing for students. Sometimes people who are very knowledgeable about technology and mathematics are not very goof at talking or relating to people, they can't express emotions. The life of versatile person is always more interesting.

@Maria, thank you for the question.

Some ideas for Humanities in Medical courses may be

- Bioethics

- Defensive Medicine (law and medical responsabilities)

- History of Medicine

- History of the diseases of famous patients

Dear Marina,

Thank you Maria and I agree with Aurto that a bridge between the sciences be built is of fundamental importance considering future world issues. However, for me one of the most important issues is the communication/interaction between the general public and the scientist/doctor. Subhash's list of topics is off to a good start but I would like to focus on # 3. I would strongly recommend a little lightening up of the tight shirted natural scientists with classes such as; 

@ Andres Teaches New Summer Teaches Course; From Professional Barbarianism grunts to the songs of the Nightingale. How to Speak with Compassion!  

@ Alireza Teaches; "Heart Surgery with a Heart; How to be Serious with a Personality"! Spring 2015

@ Maria: Teaches, "Jawing dem'  Bones Human Anatomy 101: Were talk'n Skeleton's Fall 2015

@ Douglas Teaches. Lost Something? How to find a Personality: Intro to Discovering You Are Human After All.  Spring 2015 and Fall 2015.

In all seriousness it is of the utmost importance we begin to make our research not only assemble but readable to the masses who are unfortunately here in the U.S. graduating high school with less than a 10th grade reading level. Humor is a language all can relate to and also breaks the fear as people face tough and life threatening choices. 

Douglas

Humanities are at the heart of real education. Adding or introducing discipline of Arts or History would be very much interesting.

My answer dear friends is that we need a research.  Please ask the students since they are paying for it.  Here, I have a few things to share with all of you.  From student A:

'Yes. Medical humanities is very important but in my opinion the classes I attended didn't meet the objectives. Found it to be a sad waste. Personally I think a carefully selected medical doctor who by himself encompasses the values in medical humanities should teach the class. He or she wi'l know how the medical life if TRULY going to be. We had a Professor with a degree in TESL & Business Administration teach us. Most days were just about vague topics or bashing the medical profession."

As we can't overload the medical students, some humanities/management subjects may be offered as "Open Electives" and technical course/medical students may be required to opt for at least one according to their interest. These subjects will broaden the horizons of students' behavior and personality.

Dear Maria and all, this is the opinion of Student A, an Indian boy.  He's studying medicine in Perdana University, and needs to pay RM 800K for the course.  The degree is MB BCh, BAO & LRCP & S (I). You can Google it. MB BCh stands for bachelor of medicine and bachelor of surgery, BAO is Bachelor in the Arts of Obstetrics. LRCP & S (I) is the Licentiate of Irish Medical Practice.

His opinion about Skills for Success:

'Skills for Success was OK. We were thought about communication skills, presentation skills and to some level time management and one particular topic I remember I enjoyed was 'protecting sanctity of knowledge'. We had a non-medical lecturer for that. But he was very experienced in soo many fields (it almost shocked me). Acting, geography, business administration, motivational talks, anthropology and many more. He was an actor in the old TV series Kopitiam. His name was Mr.Mano Maniam. You can Google him. The best thing he taught us was that success is self satisfaction and nothing else. I think it was good life skills. He really taught the people approach, how to study the audience and how to make sure the goal of sharing information is met. How the presentation should be structured. He was a very good teacher.'

I hope that you see things from the student's point of view.  My students are close to me.  By sharing the student's view, I hope that we see a more realistic picture.  And it's not putting in courses that we think as good, but what they really AGREE AS BENEFICIAL.

'This semester I have Malaysian Theatre, Drama and Acting. I'll be honest, I don't see the relevance of this class. It's being taught by a Chinese man who works for a theatre company called Theater 360. First day itself there was already negative talks about the medical profession. I hate it when people talk about it like that. They don't know and don't see what needs to be seen. So far the class is only fun because of the games. Thats it. Not yet, involving something I can apply to my career. Fun but not involving any growth into the field we are paying for, what's the use?'

Dear @Kamal, welcome back! On one other thread @Maria and friends have raised a question of your absence! Glad to see you again at Research Gate!

We are so happy ! So thrilled !!! to see our dear Kamal back on the road!

I speak for myself, but am sure to speak for several other too.

Thankj you dear Kamal ! We are fortunate to count you as good friend.

Computer science is very attached to humanities, for example, e-commerce,, the impact of machines on businesses, accounting information systems , internet and social media programming, management information systems, etc.

Ideally all those aspects are embedded in courses or stand alone courses in computer science curriculum. moreover, some universities are teaching IT courses through business schools.

Dear @Maria, here are some good readings and a blog also about humanities and engineering! The Humanities in Engineering helps turn a technical education into an expansively human one. Very good paper The Role of Humanities and Social Sciences in Engineering Practice and Engineering Education is attached!

http://inside.mines.edu/HB-Humanities

http://www.ineer.org/events/iceer2004/proceedings/papers/0395.pdf

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cross-check/2013/06/20/why-study-humanities-what-i-tell-engineering-freshmen/

Thank you, for such interesting and highly valuable contributes.

I usually sdtart my Anatomy course, with the 16th century phrase of the Medical Humanist RABELAIS: «Sciences sans Conscience n'est que ruine de l'Âme»

Science without Conscience is the Ruin of the Soul. !

possibly the students could be taken out for a field trip to feel the issues as a human rather than them learning it in class

Thank you, dear Sriram!

(but in the particular case of my anatomical subjects, either we go to the beach and observe naked human bodies, or I  have to take some human bones, and a buckett full of organs, to the city park).

But I do prepare to take them to museums and see some paintings , to analyse from the anatomical perspective. That would be great fun!

a flower for you!

Dear Maria,

Perhaps your course proposal would attract students if you call it "El cuerpo desnudo en el arte, la literatura, la sociedad y la anatomía."  The society part would be the trips to the beach.  If time permits you could add cinema, but careful not to go into pornography.  The key words are "nude body."  (Young people--if you can't beat them, join them!)

I owe you a response for your kind message but Mr. Parkinson is being mean to me yesterday and today!  I'll write as soon as able.

Dear Sayed,

The nude people on the public beach are there by choice.  It would be difficult for them not to be observed.  No right to privacy in this case can be expected.  Taking photographs, of course, would require permission.

Regards,

John

Thank you very much, dear Sayed Zaheen and dear John.

Of course I was joking, with my direct answer to Sriram's observation «possibly the students could be taken out for a field trip to feel the issues as a human rather than them learning it in class»... My comment was obviously to state that I need a proper room to teach my subject.

Yes, we do take care of ethics. And of our bodies' s total privacy and respect. The students enjoy being part of their very first approach to the Hypocratic oath of respect for every other human.

We usually hold our hands together and pray in silence for the person who donated the body, before we start dissecting.

And yes, of course dear John , that I am well aware of the psychologic characteristics of my young students, as I teach the human reproduction system.

One think that truly helps me, with nearly no effort , is my abolute respect and admiratrion for the aestetics of the human body. Usually, my students follow my admiration and respect. In this case, I may have contributed to educate good future health providers and that admiration and respect for the human body, may lead them to seek for the best treatments they can get to maintain the integrity of the bodies that they treat.

In my particular case, I have the tendency to strangely mix ethics and aesthetics, in one single issue, which is the absolute respect for the human body.

Here's two flowers for dear Sayed and dear John.

(what I do is very simple: I picked them up for you, and I put them directly in the scanner... they are fresh flowers, but not photos !)

I simply can't stop laughing, here on my own, in front of the computer.

I had to share this: I just got a message from dear RG friend Peter Smetacek, who is a butterfly collector in the Himalayas, and he doesn't add any comment here, because he hates my choice of flowers. 

Please forgive me if you also find them uggly.

I simply adore these tiny small scentless flowers, that we call «perfect love / Amor perfeito» in Portugal, or «thoughts / pensées , in French.

I don't have a bigger choice of flowers to pick for you, because i live just across the road from the ocean, and the salted winds destroy my plantations... please forgive me!

Where is my flower, dear Maria?

An overview of the education of a person would be roughly, primary school, an introduction to society, how to get along, how to read and write and understand basics; secondary school, the child is given background material, simplified history, geography, literature, maths, science, etc. In pre-university, the child is imbued with culture, a deeper understanding of the context of civilisation, etc.In university, the idea is that the child (by now an adult) will specialize in a chosen field. It is assumed that the cultural context and humanities have been inculcated in school, upto the age of 17 and that the student will follow whatever hobbies, interests, etc that might have developed during the teenage. If you are witnessing 'highly qualified barbarians', then it is the failure of the primary and secondary education system and there is very little that can be done about it when attitudes, likes and dislikes have already been formed.

Burdening already overburdened students with courses that they see as irrelevant and do not feel that they want to pay for would hardly lead anywhere. However, there is the question of exposure: if humans are exposed to something that arouses their curiosity, then they will learn more about it, whether they are over-burdened or not. So if you think in terms of having entertaining workshops that would broaden the students perspective in a way you want, then i suppose that would get a good response not only in terms of attendance, but also in terms of lasting effect.

The best way, given your situation, Maria, would be to introduce art in terms of anatomy, in the course of your lectures, to weave in the facets of art that you want the students to be aware of, eg, tell them about Rembrandt's painting of the anatomy lesson as an anecdote, etc etc...some of them at least, will become aware of Rembrandt and maybe learn more about him.

Certainly, I wish 'engineers' would have a wider education, then we would not see the environmental disasters being created everyday. But the solution lies in the quality of primary and secondary education, not in university education.

That, at least, is my humble opinion.

Thank you, dear Peter!

Here's a flower for you and dear Marwan. It's got a butterfly, called bea, if you look closely.

Thanks so much, dear Maria. This is very kind of you. Respect, Marwan

Yes, our «Highly qualified barbarians», or over-qualified nerds, are surely the result of misleading secondary schools, that overprepare the students to enter Universities.

But the way to fight this tendency is to direct our technical courses with a trend for humanism in our speech, introducing the students to our own interest for multidisciplinarity.

Most of my students had to choose the direction of Sciences or Humanities, in school, when they were 14 years old (too soon!). Then, they were highly prepared to solve scientific questions, and hardly ever fail multiple choice questions. 

Many of my students never read a romance, or a book of poetry, and they might not stop to pick a flower, except if they expected to be examined on the classification of plants.

They enter Medicine after very rigid and competitive National writen exams, that they finish with highest marks of cc. 90%. Some enter the University at 17 years of age, with very scarce life experience.

But they are beautiful people, and I expect they deserve the best of our efforts. The future belongs to them. (I'm getting old!!!!)

Maria

I am not familiar with the current curricula of educational institutions. I can relate to what I was taught many years ago. There was a once an idea of what constituted an educated man (women were finished, not educated). An educated man was 'qualified' to be whatever ... There were specialties, but there was 'educated.' Specialties ranged from art history to political science to medicine to natural science. Educated was knowledge of art, science, logic, music, philosophy, history, ... , i.e., the humanities. Nevertheless, all those receiving the education were not 'educated.'

Today, I can see where the amount of knowledge required in specialties might preclude depth in humanities education, resulting in well-trained specialists, but not educated men or finished women. I do not believe it is any different now that we have people receiving an education that did not lead to being educated. This must be true, because even highly trained specialists do not grasp the basics of their specialty. They are not educated in their specialty

When you say, "I have been feeling inclined to introduce an (optional) discipline of Arts and History, such as Artistic Anatomy, with a component of History of Anatomy, to our Medical course. I need arguments (pros and Cons...), to build this proposal." I think you may be concerned with uneducated specialists who have not the interest to become educated. This is neither your fault nor that of the establishment. You cannot change these people by offering more courses. You can only teach those who want to learn and hope to inspire a few converts by your example and interest. Do not give up, but face the reality that you will not win all of them.

These aspects remind me of my parents. They both wanted to educate their children with typical phrases "when was Cesar born, who painted..., do you know this latin expression for...", specially during the meal times with punishments when the results were missing or wrong.

Really highly interesting for a young girl or boy, especially with interests in natural science. I was so dreadfully bored by such behaviour. Later on I studied my non-educational-fields with success. And today, you won´t believe it, I´m also interested in "educational" sectors, thinking out of the boy, but never would bug young people. I´m convinced they develop to educated humans.

.

Dear Hanno ! 

Thank U !

I really missed your valuable, positive comments. 

I had that kind of education at home myself, with a Chemical Engineer strict father, who taught us that water was H2O, and potatoes were rich in Carbohydrates. 

And my Auint, teaching us the power of Music, and my Mother, teaching Multidisciplinary Cultures at the University,.

I hated those family meals, and now I miss them so much, and I am now the one that puts babies to sleep with the list of carpal bones...

But my educated backgriound makes me resent the fact that so many other bright human beeings were less fortunate, and never got the chance to discuss cultural issues in the family.

But I also believe that there's hope, and that the fact that education and culture is so much easier to acquire, nowadays,  Ibelieve that the generalization of Culture and Education can save our Planet.

a little bit of humanities won't hurt... would it?

Dear Babak,

of course they wont. But humanistic education is not the same as humanity of educated person.

Dear Hanno,

I think the questions of your parents were right but the punishment was not!

The ”boring” questions and facts may become interesting and useful a bit later.

Dear András,

I think you have read my total enlightenment I feel now. But not as a young boy. And the worst additional, my parents disregarded the natural science as no science. And your "bit later" is  nice comment.

Dear Maria,

Here you are a flower which cannot be harmed by salty winds:

Dear Hanno,

I have become curious on the preferred subjects of your parents?

About 25 years ago I wanted German or English to be the secret language of my family. My daughters resisted like stainless steel to rust. Epilogue: My eldest daughter is English interpreter, translator and teacher and may second daughter teaches also English.

Dear András,

a little bit curious? OK. My father was first gymnasial teacher for history and french. Later on he started to write textbooks about history and educated and examined young teachers. So I hated history and languages.

My mother studied geography with an Dr. degree but never worked in this profession and was convinced that her field is a human discipline. We were 6 children and 3 of us were born during last world war (no money, no food, no.health....).

And I´ll tell you my development. First language latin, second language english, third language french. Bad teachers in math, physics, biology and chemistry. Splendid teachers in music and sports.My interests natural sciences. What a dilemma!

Dear Hanno! The one way out for you was surely... Physics !

Dear András, thank you for the lovely cocquelicots! I love wild flowers.

I usually draw and paint every evening, and  Ihave tryed to paint an imaginary flower, but it didn't work out. I discovered that nature is perfect, and I wouldn't be able to invent better proportions or colours than there already exist.

Hanno

Consider yourself lucky having educated parents and who were interested in you becoming educated. My situation was the inverse. Even my teachers thought I was aiming above my station. 

You make my point that those who are not interested will not make the effort to become 'educated,' yet, someday they may understand and be interested. That is why we never give up. 

I was not sure what I wanted to do at university; engineering, art, history, or music. I finally did them all by going into physics.

Dear Hanno,

Good point :)

Yes, Joseph, the fact that so many need (desperately need) education, is what keeps us going.

And, whatever the subject, whatever the background, we should all thrive and fight to keep this going, We never know how much any particular student needs our support. (I do know that the more silent about it, are those that need us most).

I usually offer a book to my best student, every year. This year, for the best of my students, I chose a collection of Sherlock Holmes short stories. I asked him to read it during his holidays  and to try and analyse the traces of Conan Doyle's medical semiology reasoning, because Conan Doyle was a medical prasctitioner.

The boy told me timidly, what I had already suspected: There were no books at all in his parent's household. This was the first non-technical book that he owned.

And I'm sure he'll read it with delight.

This small anecdote demonstrates that  our underpayed jobs in Education are far more important to the society than we might imagine.

« Let no man who is not a Mathematician read the elements of my work. »

-

« The Book of the Science of the Mechanics must precede the Book of useful inventions. - Have your books on Anatomy bound ! »

Leonardo da Vinci - On his Own Writings / Notebooks - 

Like other disciplines such as medical humanities disciplines of special features, which can be good and useful courses and I agree with your doctor's

Learning is the only thing, that helps us to survive, that's why I appeared on RG in 2011. Thirst for knowledge is the only way to remain a human being in this contraindicative and egoistic world. Being a pure Humanitarian and Linguist, I have knowledge in nursing, massage, simple medical manipulations, try to learn basic computer skills, the foundation of gardening and what not, thanks to my colleagues, students, RG greatest personalities. 

To have the behavioral competence also, various subjects from humanities, as liked by the students, should be included in highly technical fields such as medicine, engineering, basic science, and other fields of science. This is also necessary for the balanced personality development of technical persons.

Yes, I am a strong believer in multidisciplinarity. It will grow in the near future, thanks to the internet and other knowledge sharing tools.

Education and increasing education is the best way to save our World. 

I have faith in the future.

Would you consider the interest of adding disciplines from the Humanities, to the more technical Courses, such as Medicine or Engineering?

To

Dr. Maria Bettencourt Pires

I am totally agree that in technical courses such as- Engineering, Medical, Management etc. ,Humanities subjects must be added.  It is the time to bridging the gap between technical courses and humanities courses. In favour of my answer, below, I am listed some arguments:

1. The aim of education is not only make technicians, doctors, managers, engineer etc. but its aim is to make  a perfect man i.e. to develop certain technical aand professional abilities and skills among the students with moral, emotional, aesthetic, and living maturity. I am very sorry to say that our institutions are making very good doctors, engineers, managers, technicians, industrialists, bankers but we are not producing good humans (Humans that have morals, values, feelings, emotions, etc.).     

2. The humanities remind us that we have an enormous capacity for deluding ourselves.

3. They also tell us that every single human is unique, different than every other human and each of us keeps changing in unpredictable ways.

4. The societies we live in also keep changing–in part because of science and technology! So in certain important ways, humans resist the kind of explanations that science gives us.

5. Humanities disciplines tell us what is the meaning of life?

6. What is the point of life?

7. Should happiness be our goal? Well, what the hell is happiness? And should happiness be an end in itself or just a side effect of some other more important goal? Like gaining knowledge, or reducing suffering?

8. The course of study is designed to impart knowledge and skills that enhance both ability and desire to become a leader in an area of national need. Scholars, who are encouraged to develop plans of study that complement their technical curricula, have developed concentrations in such areas as leadership, environmental ethics and policy, theories of human behavior, health care policies, business organization and communications, and cross-cultural communications.

Please see for more details:

Source: http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cross-check/2013/06/20/why-study-humanities-what-i-tell-engineering-freshmen/

http://ids.chass.ncsu.edu/bfs/history/fiebfs.php

Dear María,

The Trivium and Quadrivium are two Latin words that refer to the "Seven Liberal Arts" which were studied in antiquity and early European universities during the Middle Ages. They used the words "art" Greek "arete" meaning "virtue" and "liberal" because its purpose was to form "free men". This freedom was obtained through knowledge and development of intellectual skills; as opposed to "servile arts" or "minor arts" were the man who provided the expertise to perform trades and manual labor.

Perhaps the origin of this loss, to which we attended today, it originated with the emergence of the Pragmatism. For pragmatists, truth and goodness must be measured according to with the success that they have in practice. In other words, pragmatism is based on utility, the utility is the basis of all meaning.

Unfortunately, today we see, in the education of almost all countries, that practical knowledge is privileged (must learn to survive by adapting to the requirements of technical and scientific development), forgetting that the human being is not so if it is not considered as a whole. A medical professional is no 'healing' a disease, but a diseased; an engineer is not 'building' a building that meets certain planning requirements, but a human habitat; in short, a researcherIt is not producing a thesis or a theory of how it seems to him that things work, but trying to bring some benefit to mankind.

In short, we are facing an increasingly important dissociation between humanistic education and practical education . That is, the study of man (this is science), each time is more distributed in small, isolated specialties, causing them to lose sight, everything that makes us human.

I strongly believe that we should return to form men and women who have the ability to see themselves inserts in the same reality, that is, free men and women.

Dear María:

I personally think that medicine is an art.

And I think very necessary to include both theory and artistic skills in medical sciences. I Believe that a person who knows and appreciates history, can get to know better where stands, before to be a "professional". Otherwise we would have many medics like Dr. House, brilliant but brutally inhumane. General knowledge and artistic sensibility makes people be most human and allows for better inclusion and social interaction. 

A good example is my profession. Stomatology requires great skill, sensitivity and humanism. All science too.

Regards.

It is an excellent idea to include humanities subjects in science courses. I understand that humanities encompasses a large number of subjects, therefore selection of appropriate curriculum to complement the pure science subjects is important. When we were students of agriculture, languages were included in the curriculum of the first year of the degree but later they were replaced with more intense agricultural subjects. The same thing happened in medical, engineering and other science related degrees.  There certainly is a need to rethink on the re-introduction of humanities subjects.

Thank you for initiating an interesting and thought provoking discussion.

Dear All,

Without being familiarised with Humanities any scientific field or profession cannot be rightly placed into society and culture. Thus, Humanities should be taught in each university independently of their speciality. This would contribute to the better performance of intelligentsia and a more harmonised human development. Unfortunately, this is not the case, thus there is a production of professional barbarians in many countries.

Dear András !

... professional barbarians ... !!!!???!!!!

Thank you ! As usual, you said it all in two words. That is certainly the point, an the main issue that I tried to put into discussion.

Dear all !

Thank you for ther recent important contributes. You bring new light to this question. 

-Yes , we all agree. Education and culture, is the only way to build a better worrld, a world where values, ethics and respect will return to cure modern human spiritual ailments.

In my engineering curricula (during B.Tech., M.Tech., Ph.D.), I came across courses related to Linguistics (English / English for Technical Writing / Foreign Languages: German, Russian, French) / Rural Sociology/ Psychology / Logic / Philosophy. Some of these courses were Core Courses while others were offered as Electives.

This is an interesting article about English language dept. at University of Maryland. "The department’s recruiting efforts go beyond outreach. Its course catalogue includes more offerings with crossover appeal for the tech crowd: Literature in a Wired World; Writing in the Wireless World; Science, Gender and Classic Science Fiction; Literature of Science and Technology; and more. There is also broad cultural diversity — with many courses, for example, in literature from the African diaspora — as well as depth in the foundational texts: Chaucer, Shakespeare and the rest...Wallace D. Loh, president of U-Md. since 2010, disagreed. He said he likes to think of the university as a flower. “That flower has a long and very sturdy ‘STEM,’ ” Loh said. “But at the top of that STEM, there’s a flower, a blossom. And that flower is the humanities.” He said he walks around campus “with that metaphor of the flower in my head all the time. We have to nurture that blossom.” "

http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/can-the-english-major-be-saved/2015/04/02/1e350ec2-ca53-11e4-a199-6cb5e63819d2_story.html

A few years ago, when our medical students were questioned on the name of the first King of Portugal, some of them mentioned the name of the latest President... Nevertheless, they went through the technical part of their course, with no problem, and I believe that they are now practicing. with success. 

Let us go further! Dear @maria, I do bring you a story on STEM and ARTS!

http://www.edweek.org/tm/articles/2014/11/18/ctq-jolly-stem-vs-steam.html

Oh, Boy!

Dear Ljubomir!

I hadn't noticed you added this. (I have stopped receiving mails from RG with updates. I have to check daily on myself...) I have been so busy, enjoying holidays, that I forgot to check !!!)

Yes, stem cells are certainly artistic. Most biochemical constituents of our body would build great modern art pictures to cover the walls of our studies and offices.

Thank you !

Dear @Maria, the previous answer was about STEM as Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics. 

I agree with you that stem cells are artistic.

Ask RG support about your mail alerts. Regards!

I knew, someday I would end up stupidified, after this overload of holidays... after 3 weeks of total intelectual inactivity, I may have lost my reading ability... sorry! (can't stop laughing!)