It's a question that gets asked quite often. But ideas are very welcome! Give me your views please.
I'm not quite sure what your point is, but this is a recurring and serious question in English culture. You don't wish to treat it seriously, stay away from it. I do take it seriously, and look forward to some serious responses. Some playful ones as well. But not this sort of bland nonsense, thank you.
NOCK
Why would you think the English are hated?
'Everyone' is quite general - everyone as in who?
When someone/something is hated, is it not a reflection of simply not understanding that someone/something?
Or - is it a fear of the unknown? - is it because 'everyone' does not really know the English?
Hmm.
Ah well Samantha. The Canadians call us the Slimy Limies. The Australians call us Poms. The French call Les Rosbif. The Americans describe a sneaky curly pool shot as hwaving English on it....and on and on....
Who's left to love us?
NOCK
Now there's a nice Australian car sticker: "Grow your own dope: Plant a pom".
NOCK
Is that right curly? 😁
My point to date is merely that those I've mentioned are supposed to be our friends! What are our enemies saying about us.
NOCK
Anyway curly, what's the word on the English from local Chinese in Hong Kong?
NOCK
My earlier point was about the presupposition in the why? question, namely, that "everyone hates the English". It's unlikely to be true but can, of course, serve as a starting point for collecting insights and ideas, especially regarding the meaning of the three central concepts ("everyone", "hatred", "English").
Such a discussion -- even playful contributions -- can help us identify relevant
This discussion can then lead to operational definitions, making a discussion of the topic more meaningful.
For example, is the existence of nicknames a symptom of hatred? Some of the nicknames have socio-historical origins, and though still in the dictionary, may have little currency today. Also, things change. English cuisine did't have the best reputation for years but that has changed radically since the end of the 1990s.
Though the above approach may be somewhat tedious (compared to an animated conversation), it's more likely to benefit anyone with a stake in the answers. From a CBT point of view, some beliefs are self-enhancing while others are self-defeating. It's not helping anyone to set out from a belief that everyone hates the English (untrue), and that the world is made up of friends and enemies (untrue).
"Everyone" seems quite general. The question remains: is that so? Are nicknames really a good indicator for being disliked? Even if we said: "Yes, the English get nicknames, they are often not favorable and this indicates them not being well-liked." (We could argue about that, but lets' stick to it for the sake of the argument.)
The definite conclusion of "everyone" does "hate" the English assumes that "The English" are being treated speacial. Would that not mean, that the English are not as well liked as others? That other Nations do not suffer under unfavorable nicknames? I am German, and as such I am used to be confronted with the idea of "The Germans" either being Nazis still which still results in Germans either not being liked for that reason or (even more creepy) being liked for that reason, or recently striving for world-domination via automobile industry. I also remember having heard a lot of unfavorable nicknames that are used in England to describe the French, and Danes and Swedish people tell a lot of jokes on the expense of each other (there are many dealing with the question of how to deduce the nationality of drunk people by the extend they are being induced with alcohol). Danes will know many jokes about people living in Jylland just as the Swedish will know jokes about Swedish people living in Malmö. Do they hate each other? I don't think so. If we were arguing based on nicknames we come up with for each other we'd have to conclude: people of all walks of life, of all nationalities hate each other!
But lets' skip the nicknames: in times of Brexit I would not be amazed to find out that the painful process (I call it slow motion political accident with unknown number of casualties) results in many people being fed up with the whole issue. Even the toughest Brexiter might understand that the process as such calls for animosities with others. I am not sure whether those animosities that I consider as being based in the painful process we are all currently witnessing goes as far as creating animosities or even hatred with "the English".
Consummation (for Chris):
- Argument: "everyone" hates "the English": very general
- Asumption: nicknames on expense of the English as indicator for not being liked or even being hated
- no singular situation since all nations use nicknames for each other, even for groups within their own nation
- conclusion: nicknames are a weak indicator, nicknames are no singular occurence when it comes to the English
- current policy (Brexit) might cause animosities towards England. This might have started with animosities towards Brexit (unresponded love, as in a divorce), stretched to political class and government.
- Question: are animositeis being extended to "the English" as a nation?
Conclusion:
I doubt that "the English" as a nation and as a people are generally disliked or more disliked than other nations.
Boy, oh boy you guys are serious. Blimey. It's not a thesis. It's a general sense that the English seem to get from time to time. Everyone's against, nobody loves us. Why, when we're such nice people? Well except those people up north (or down south). They're just gits. But us! Well, we hate them anyway.
And so it goes on....
NOCK
If that is so, the question should rather be: "Why does there appear to be the notion of the British believing they are unjustly not being liked from time to time?" - The initial question stated the British (or rather the English) not being liked as fact and asking for the reasons.
Now, now Stephan! I'm English, asking a question in English, about the English. Why do you dislike me so...?
Oh Christopher, I had no idea. I did not know you were English, I thought you might accidentally have stranded in that country. I had always considered you a fairly reasonable person, but this revelation changes everything! (O_O)
One of the points here is that it's a question driven by emotion and permits no reasonable answer. And yet you seek reason. You insist on it meaning something, when it doesn't by the standard of reason.
But why does it's emotional roots countt against it? Should they? Aren't emotions "reasonable"? Should we not allow them here?
NOCK
In short, look critically at the nature of your own reaction to a question you clearly don't like. Why dislike it?
NOCK
This self pitying is a major component of the Brexit drama
Just listen to David Davis or that Farage person.
Poor gallant Brits holding out against these devious Europeans who want to keep us in the EU. As if!
To understand the English psyche today you need to go to an Irish analyst. We know them well, actually like them on the whole, but find the current self pity mood a tad pathetic.
See https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/16/brexit-paranoid-fantasy-fintan-otoole
Well, I'm so glad you agree Ronaldo! Didn't see that coming. And of course we're still desperate to undo the soft Irish border. Oh no, that's the Irish nationalists after events in (London)Derry, I fear.
NOCK
Well, at least I don't have to blame another people for all the bloody cock-ups my own have made,. Your humour is anbout as in insightful as your comments. I should keep both to yourself..
NOCK
A fantasy of glorious, defiant aloneness is at the heart of Brexit’s wish-fulfilment. It is a great warning about being careful what you wish for. What we are seeing at the moment is a sneak preview of England standing alone. It is not surprising that it is a preview of a horror show. For when you really are alone, what are you alone with? You are alone with your demons.
Dear Lord, the question here is quite tongue in cheek. It's picking up on longstanding opinions of the English (some quite humorous). Not everything here is about Brexit. Indeed, that matter is now so boring no one really care how it ends apart from second rate British politicians.
NOCK
I can sympathise with that view
But still Brexit is there for all of us
A catastrophe unless some sense erupts
I'm sorry Ronald, but from here it is what it is, and so is the outcome, whatever it is. When I say no one cares, I mean no one cares. That doesn't literally mean no one, rather like in this question everyone doesn't literally mean everyone. But enough people don't care anymore to make the final outcome a matter of chance. The majority opinion seems to be, just get it done, and however it's done we'll find a way to live with the consequences, whatever they are.
The English, unlike the celts, have a very short attention span.
NOCK
It is what it is for sure
Don't think it's about attention span
More being sick of it going on for years with more to come
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