Hallo David,

If you consider an organized human society as a superorganism, you can see that it is a network. In particular, is a kind of "genetic network of networks”. In fact, it is divided in districts with different peculiarities depending on karyotype specification, it adapts and "exapts", grows, has several centers of functions.

Check this diagram to pin the concept: http://dx.doi.org/10.6084/m9.figshare.784938

In such a system, is substantially different to be [or be placed] at the margins or to be "deprived" of resources.

In terms of sociological peculiarities, a group can be kept in a district far from the center, so marginalized, even without determining a true "deprivation" of resources for it. The slums, for example, are far apart and even at the antipodes from the center [therefore, far from determinations of choices, decisions, power, democratic exercises], yet they are not "deprived" of resources. Indeed, slum dwellers, for their position, have learned to implement a super-exploitation of resources, and - for example - they waste much less and recycle much greater then the population closer to the center of the system. At the same time, a group could live at the margin, for example determining a niche, having a limited class of resources, and nevertheless being more relevant for the superorganism, and having more power.

This means that not the position nor the resources make a district poor, but its value for the whole significance of the common habitat. The ideal is to create a system that circulates the same sap at the margins, keeping them alive in their karyotypical specification, genetic differences, and increasing the way they use resources.

g

Impressive, Guiseppe dear, thanks a lot for the great enlightenment. I really have learnt a lot from your response. Your statements are well noted

Very well put, Guiseppe. But is such a social system as you describe in your last paragraph tenable in the modern globalized world? I think you are taking human greed and geopolitical avarice for granted.

I agree that marginalized groups need not necessarily be deprived. A group in the mainstream, for example, the low income groups may be deprived of certain basic needs such as access to quality housing or clean water. What it means here, is that, they may live in a house but the conditions are not of a quality suitable for habitation (not maintaned, not safe etc) or they have access to water but it's not clean water. In the context of marginalized, groups left out in many of the urban policies like the disabled, the women can be considered as marginalised.

Oh ok, thanks a lot Ahmad for the great response. Your point is well noted

Hi David,

I live in an affluent Northern New Jersey neighborhood with a nice house on 5 (unkempt) acres; my mortgage is paid off and our 3-car garage contains 2 late model Volvos and one classic Mercedes. We are only two people living in a large house with three bathrooms and a sauna. In short, I am not deprived. But, boy, am I marginalized, I am the only Democrat on my block and indeed the county in which I live (Morris County) is so Republican that a few years ago I registered as a Republican just because I was tired of being disenfranchised -- having been excluded from the polls at the primary for 15 years simply because there were never any Democrats on the slate. That, David, is what it means to be marginalized (with the only deprivation experienced being the poverty of Democratic candidates to vote for in Republican territory).

Gwen

@Gwen:

Great! A concrete reification of how 2 different properties are differently reflected into individuals and human societies.

g

Very Impressive,,,,Gwen, thanks a lot for the great example given. Your opinion is well noted and very much appreciated.

In my opinion, the loss of symbolic functions that support personality is important to ditinguish the difference between these two terms. Loss of representations ot the body (it become only symptom or function but not self-image), of the time (it is quantitative but not qualitative.."when I eat" not "When I feel good"), of the space (the citizen of the world is only customer of the place that allows him to satisfy his basic needs "place where I can eat or sleep"), of the other (allowing for exchange necessary for survival in society)...This slip ditinguishes deprived people and marginalized people (in this last case, the people is foccused on immediate needs, in an unstable present and facing a future marked by insecurity).

Many thanks for this very important question and answers.

Jean.

Thanks a lot Jean for the impressive and brilliant opinion shared. Your point is very well noted and much appreciated

marginalization is the prior stage of deprivation, true some literature takes both same, but when people are at the margin (to be worse off or better off) then in long run they become socially excluded and deprived. it is not necessary that some one is marginalized as well as deprived. ZEFF, university of Bonn has good research on this issue, at micro level, slums, minorities, gender, geographic marginality exist, which is different from deprivation, however at macro level, the identification of marginalized population may use some indicators which also represent deprivation as well

Thanks a lot Zahra for the wonderful opinion shared. Your point is well noted

marginalization leads to deprivation and not the other way... to counter marginalization of the rural poor being deprived of the opportunity which industrialized society offers to the Urban areas, the following article may throw some light......https://www.researchgate.net/publication/261360379_RENPER_4-_REACH_THE_POOR_THROUGH_EMPLOYABILITY_SKILLS_DEV_-_Automobile_Segment?ev=prf_pub

Data RENPER 4- REACH THE POOR THROUGH EMPLOYABILITY SKILLS DEV - ...

Dear All,

Many thanks to Krishnan for the references; very interesting.

In my opinion poverty refers to the socio-economic status, while precarity is linked to the perception of insecurity in the present and the futur.

Social deprivation is a state of instability which modifies the relation of the subject with other people (and environment). The perception of time is altered (overestimation of the past, fear of the futur, invasion of the thinking by the difficulties in the present).

Zimbardo Time Perspective Inventory (ZTPI) is a scale to assess the relationship of a person with the time. These changes in time perspective prevents precarious persons to find a job or to transfom health behaviors (instead, they can increase risky behaviors: use of addictive substance, self aggression or violence against other people, etc.).

More than the low level of income, the insecurity due to social precariousness decreases the chance to get a new place in the society (the "world of others or the other world" perceived as hostile).

This state of uncertainty is even greater than the level of education is lower...Gradually loss of self-esteem exacerbates the level of insecurity and reduces hope... and leads the person to high exclusion.

Regards.

Jean.

Zimbardo PG, et al. Putting time in perspective: A valid, reliable individual-differences metric. J Pers Soc Psychol 1999; 77: 1271-1288.

Emmanuelli X. Yes, there is a syndrome of the great exclusion. Press Med 2009; 38:1557-1559. (French).

@J Perriot

Your pointers are well taken, but that research was hypothesized and proven on HEALTH as an independent variable which influences the choice over the

Command of Good & Services thereby leading to POVERTY.

My personal experience in Uganda (2006-7), i have seen people who are potential (Knowledge, Skills & Attitude) enough fallen prey to ILL HEALTH which affected there regularity to work or business and thereby could not afford to betterment of life....

Dear Krishnan,

I fully agree with you. It's not possible to select only one model or concept for understanding the complexity of situations in life and in the society and to think that everything is organized according this system.

However, the feeling of insecurity arises from a person far beyond his income and his good or bad health. Ability to exchange or trade with others, within the human community (society) respecting the laws they have given, recquires a balance between the individual (their needs and expectations regardless of their knowledge and skills) and possibilities offered by the society in response to the expectations.

What remains of Adam Smith assertion "give me what I need and you'll have me what you need" for those (people living in extreme social insecurity) who have lost the symbolic function which gives an individual's personality (representation of the body, of the time,of the space, and of the others)...I fear that it remains only "You cannot give anything; then learn to have no needs"...

Yet man is a social animal who needs other "If men did not need it, they would not have spontaneously organised links" (Diderot)...This finding is a brand of hope and our commitment to improve the human condition.

Jean.

Regional Network on Poverty Eradication (RENPER) is considered an international forum on poverty elimination for all universities in Southeast and Southern Asia. RENPER is one of the initiatives for the internationalization of participant universities and its establishment is timely in that poverty is one of the primary concerns in all societies throughout the world in general, and within our region in particular. RENPER hopes to act as a strong coalition of universities, aiming to realize the importance of academia in complementing the roles of government and nongovernment agencies in combating poverty.

INVITE ALL Like minded people @ J Perriot- to participate in RENPER forum....next....

THE 5 INTERNATIONAL SEMINAR OF REGIONAL NETWORK ON POVERTY ERADICATION at THE 5th BANKING UNIVERSITY OF HO CHI MINH CITY, VIETNAM

22 - 24th OCTOBER 2014

http://renper5-buh-vn.webnode.vn/products/announcement-no-01-renper-5-organizing-board/

Dear Krishnan,

Many thanks for the information done.

Jean.