Writing comments in poor English by some RG colleagues may lead to confusion and misunderstanding. Do you agree?
In my opinion, RG is a platform for researchers from different fields coming from different countries with different languages. You can be best in your field yet poor in speaking English language if your country is not speaker of English language. Thanks to a platform like this where learning is possible without a direct teacher and assessing yourself without being marked. Blaming them for bad grammar is like blaming them for coming from their countries. However, as researchers will should be able to read mind because that is what we do every time in assessing our students.
Dear Hazim,
As a linguistic, I am much inclined to believe that the most important is communication - rather than perfect English grammar structures. If this is happening (if readers can understand the main message implied there), mistakes and errors become secondary. This is my personal opinion.
Also, sometimes, the corrector from smartphones can get in the way - this has happened to me before...
Dear Hazim, I agree with Caroline, I would prioritise communication over specific grammar-orthographic errors, although this is not an excuse for neglecting accuracy.
Dear Caroline and Alesso, I agree with you if the post includes only minor spelling or grammatical mistakes. But if it contains a lot of mistakes leading to ambiguity or confusion, then it will become really confusing. Best regards. Hazim.
I think your effort to communicate is the most important, we do not all have the same opportunities to learn English, so it is very valuable that we value RG researchers who do not have good English but who ask and answer because they are improving every day
In my opinion, RG is a platform for researchers from different fields coming from different countries with different languages. You can be best in your field yet poor in speaking English language if your country is not speaker of English language. Thanks to a platform like this where learning is possible without a direct teacher and assessing yourself without being marked. Blaming them for bad grammar is like blaming them for coming from their countries. However, as researchers will should be able to read mind because that is what we do every time in assessing our students.
Sure it has been lead to confusion and misunderstanding,
English is a passport for all researchers and scientists and is the most important tool for communication among them
regards
Thank you, catia, J.M Koli, Mushtaq, Segun. Actually, we do not blame anyone for their incompetence or underestimate the performance of our colleagues since understanding is achieved. But if there is misunderstanding due to a poor wording of the question or answer, ambiguity will occur. Humanbeings are not always able to access the meanings or what is going on in the brains of all writers. Best regards. Hazim
Thank you Paul, Hidouri, Hassan Nima for your answers. Best regards.
I fully agree with Dr. Hazim that writing in a poor language results sometimes in misunderstanding and confusion and makes it very difficult to access the intention of writers .
Writing clearly and accurately maintains understanding that we are all looking for.
Thank you very much, Mohamed and Mohanad Hazim. The question has criticized no one. It is further explained in a general statement looking for clarity and avoiding ambiguity that is expected to occur. Best regards.
Some RG colleagues write comments in a very poor English. It is reflected in their questions and answers. Does it affect your response to them?
Yes it does - but I try to make sense of the content that the RG colleagues try to communicate rather than the language packaging of the question. However, the way the question is being structured might influence the way I interpret the question that might prompt me to provide different answer. So in my reply I will state my understanding of the question before providing my answer hopefully for knowledge contribution.
Dear Hazim Al Dilaimy and readers, it is true that sometimes some questions and responses are difficult to understand due to lack of clarity resulting from the mode of of communication and the use of the English language. As worrying as this may be at times, it is always appropriate that in order to help make meaningful contribution to the subject been raised by the researcher, we seek for clarifications from them. By so doing, as already indicated by other researchers above, we may be learning and contributing to knowledge in diverse ways.
Moreover, we can deduce from the researcher's question the main issue(s) that need(s) to be addressed and in trying to answer the question rephrase his or her statement to clarify our understanding of the question. This if done properly may draw the questioner's attention to his or her mistakes without necessarily hurting their feelings.
We must once again remind ourselves that RG members come from different backgrounds with different languages.
My humble opinion.
Dear Thomas Prehi Botchway. Thank very much for your marvellous answer and interesting suggestions. Asking RG members to give further information about vague questions will be very valuable. Best regards. Hazim.
One thing, I really felt comfortable about RG, that researchers with actually less correct English (due to many factors) were not being pointed out by others! so that's a great thing; and yes we can improve along the way, but it is good idea to participate with not so good English, as compare to not participating at all. Diversity of participants is strength of this RG.
Thank you very much Nazia Asad for your excellent answer. I do agee with you that there are a lot of variations in the levels of English competence among RG members. Best regards. Hazim.
RG colleagues have different levels of competence in English as they belong to different countries that speak languages other than English. The most important condition here is to have the message clear and understandable
It is the content of the question which is more important. After all research does not distinguish what your native language is. If the question is stated as clearly as possible albeit with grammatical errors it would elicit adequate number of responses that may benefit the person asking the question.
Hello Hazim,
Whatever the question is, I always try to paraphrase it and pose it back to person asking it. Even questions in perfect English are many times hard to parse, for me, and require clarification, sometimes multiple clarifications. We are not engaged in an English composition class, we are trying to communicate; with language, it is always through a glass darkly. Communication requires a sustained effort and a willingness to meet the other person halfway or more, sometimes. Using the questioner's lack of facility with the English language as an excuse to give them anything less than my best effort would be, for me, a reflection of my own incompetence.
Regards,
Tom Cuff
Thank you very muchdear, Sabri T. S Ahmed, Srini Vasan and Tom Cuff for your interesting answers. Your suggestions are highly appreciated. Best regards. Hazim.
Yes Indeed Some of our RG Colleagues used Poor Writing and Grammar in English which gives obviously not a Good Impression. It Also creates Misunderstandings and Confusions in front of me and Also it’s Difficult to Understand What other person is conveying. Nothing for Offense but mostly I found our European and African Colleagues has this Problem. Regards
Thank you, dear Ahsan Siddiqui for your nice answer. Confusion for incorrect wording of questions or answers may happen with all colleagues regardless of their educational background or they countries where they come fom. Best regards. Hazim.
Very nice question dear Dr. Hazim Al Dilaimy. thanks a lot.
Dear RG-colleagues, I would like to say that my dear colleague Dr. Hazim Al Dilaimy did not mean to underestimate or blame his RG-colleagues but he wanted to open a window to discuss this problem and to suggest appropriate solutions in the form of tips for all our RG-colleagues in order to improve their English language.
Personally, I find that my colleague Dr. Hazim Al Dilaimy is very much interested in raising the level of English language to the maximum extent. In fact, I think that my colleague Dr. Hazim Al Dilaimy has more than 40 years of experience in the field as a teacher of English language and I am very happy to benefit from his great experience.
For this purpose, I suggest some of the ways in which anyone can improve his/her English:
1- Read the articles from books and newspapers. Start with such articles which are written upon the topic(s) that interests you, say, gaming, sports, politics, science, psychology etc.
2- Try to read out the articles loud. This helps to build up the confidence, helps to concentrate upon the articles that you are reading and helps to improve the fluency in reading as well as speaking.
3- Interact with those of your friends and family whom you trust that they won't make fun of you in English. This might be difficult for you in the beginning and you might feel shy and hesitant but ask them to correct you whenever you make any mistake.
4- Every day when your mind is fresh and when you are filled with energy, write a diary entry or write a paragraph. Re-read it again and again to rectify it yourself. Then get it checked by someone who is good in English. After getting it corrected, re-read it with calm mind and with full concentration.
5- Try to think in English. Till now you must have been thinking in your mother tongue as that's comfortable for the individual but try to make a habit of thinking in English. If you get stuck take help from the person who is good in English.
6- Watch your favorite shows and movies in English. For the starting this habit you may take help of English subbed TV shows (including anime series) and movies. This will help you understand the interpretation of the dialogues, will improve your reading pace and will help you understand the accent.
7- Listen to your favorite genre of English songs. Whenever you relate the things you wish to learn with the things that you love and enjoy, it helps to grasp it sooner. First, listen to the English song of your liking with full concentration and try to understand the meaning of the lyrics.
8- Translate your favorite Hindi songs into English and vice-versa.Then get them corrected by someone who is good at English.
9- Try to practice speaking in English in front of a mirror. This will help you gain confidence and will improve your fluency.
10- Most importantly, disable auto-correct option in your android! This feature might hinder your progress as the user becomes too dependent upon it that he/she forgets the spelling of even simplest of the terms.
I hope these methods will help anyone for improving his/her English.
Kind regards
Dear Dr. Hamid Gadouri, thank you very much for your marvellous detailed answer. I do agree with you.The tips and suggestions outlined in your answer are useful to all people. Best regards. Hazim.
their comments and the way they convey their message can certainly influence their interactants/ they believe that they are not informative and knowledgable enough to understand some complicated concepts and constructs. so their interactants simplify their answers to make themselves understood.
You're right dear Dr. Farangis Shahidzade, thanks a lot for this best clarification.
That said, I am very sure that the intention of my colleague Dr. Hazim Al Dilaimy is pure and unblemished. But I regret because of some my RG-colleagues' answers who turned the question away from his true direction. Personally, I have some problems with English, but this does not make me angry due to the question of my dear colleague. But he has right to say this and I respect everyone who shows me my mistakes in all matters of life because that will lead me to correct them and improve my level in all fields. So, I intervened in order to clarify the good meaning of the question of my respected colleague Dr. Hazim Al Dilaimy.
Kind regards
Every one try his best to give his/her opinion. If we get the idea, that's enough.
Dear RG colleagues
Writing clearly and accurately is the hope (optimal objective) of every writer who seeks wider readership. However, as everyone in reserach knows, there are well-established researchers who write well in their native languages but fail to do so in English (as it can be their third or fourth language!). The risk of requiring high standards in RG interactions may result in excluding a number of colleagues who may have great ideas but may not be able to express them in reasonably good English.
The intent of this message is to urge colleagues to give priority to ideas and reasoning rather than to language! Adopting a more lenient attitude towards those who struggle to put their ideas in a foreign language will probably encourage them to improve their level in that language!
It is true that in some situations we should read a paragraph three or four times to work out its meaning but I reckon that, in most cases, the challenge lies more in ideas than in the language itself!
English is just a language. In my view, if you get a point or hint of what the writer tend to deliver, English is just not a barrier. Quality answer can be delivered by a simple English rather than meaningless verbatim with no ideas.
English is just one medium for expression. It happens to be the scientific standard in most of the world (at least in many disciplines) but that doesn't require that everyone master the language. Even as a native speaker, I would never claim mastery. In my experience, any confusion resulting from weak English is an opportunity to start up a conversation and create a new relationship that may not have otherwise been possible.
In some cases, I ask for clarification of a question and its meaning before answering it. Otherwise, I don't respond.
True fluency in many languages is very, very difficult. (But practice makes perfect, so I believe people should keep trying, and they will improve.)
I trust, it is the core ideas that people want to see, not so much perfect English, especially in a scientific forum like this one.
RG is for scientific networking, English language in quality may be for 'British' or Language teacher of 'English'
'Quality' of message is real purpose of RG over 'Quality' of language
As long as the message conveyed in the Question is understandable, Replying to it is not a serious issue, regardless of the grammatical errors in the body of the question.
I agree that when asking questions, it is important to express your ideas in a very high level of English Language, especially if these ideas represent questions that pose challenging scientific problems. This is even more important when answering questions because you are giving directions that have to be clear and precise. ResearchGate (RG) is a networking site for researchers and scientists. It is expected from us to be able to communicate our ideas in a correct, clear, precise, scientific language. I understand that for a great part of the RG members, including me, English is not our first language. However, this is not an excuse for not doing what is right for us and science in general, that is, to be able to communicate correctly in the international language of scientific communication: English language. There are many tools online and also in our computer that help us to write correct English. My advice for some RG colleagues, who, without doubt, are experts in their fields, is to use these tools or simply take additional courses to improve English proficiency. English language proficiency in the scientific world is just crucial if we want our ideas and contributions to be known and fully understood.
Not likely to affect our RG activities by way of response to questions,I believe.
The English language is a communication tool and it does not reflect the person. For me, a helpful answer that helps me to solve a problem with bad english is better than a useless answer with good english.
Totally agree with Dr. Hazim. Poor English will lead to miscommunication and the main idea won’t be comprehended by the readers of the question. So one has to try to obey the rules of grammar so that ambiguity will be eliminated.
Best regards,
Marwah
Many times one does not give the correct answer because the poor english affects his/her understanding of the question.
Several times I extracted splendid ideas from bad english activities, though more efforts are required to clarify such ideas.
English though considered as universal language...is not so in practicality.
Great research has been done and being done in many part of the world in their very own national languages....which is unable to reach to many because of this misconception that only English speaking can do ask or answer the research related questions.
if you can understand the essence of question without undergoing critical review of grammar...you can answer.
Dear Dr. Hazim Al Dilaimy
Peace upon you !
It's clear, the language is the vehicle of thought ... and knowledge. I would have liked to do it in Arabic. With you it would be perfect but how many people will understand us. I can very well do it also in academic French, but also how many people will understand me. So, I do my best to communicate in English, because it is the universal scientific language by excellence. So be a little indulgent with all the RG colleagues whose mother tongue is not English and who make efforts to communicate in English with more or less success. Sometimes it's linguistically dramatic, I agree with you. But, the essential is to try to transmit the message.
On this topic, there have been several discussions on RG. In my opinion, one of the possible solutions would be to represent two versions of the text. The first option is in bad English and the second option is in a quality native language. With the help of Google Translator it is possible to translate both versions into any other language. These translations will well complement each other and in the end we will get a good understanding of the original text.
Taking advantage of the case, one thing can be noticed: When we see a non-quality translation of the classics of fiction into English, we are not indignant. When translating very often, specific features of the national language disappear. For example, I saw the translation of my favorite Chekhov story "Ionich" into English https://www.ibiblio.org/eldritch/ac/jr/192.htm . The translation is certainly good, but it is no longer the Russian Chekhov. The flavor of the tongue has disappeared. Therefore, let's be tolerant to each other, in the end RG is not a scientific journal, where first of all it respects the quality English and only then everything else.
Dear colleagues,
Each of us has a mother tongue that he/she uses daily to communicate with family, friends, etc. In some countries, another language such as French or English is used for example, for science (exact and medical) and technology higher education, for several reasons, in particular historical (colonialism, etc.).
It is clear that the mother tongue reflects our personality, our culture, etc...
A literary text, or an American or other film, in its original version clearly better reflects the author's message, and the quality of the artistic work, or the literary novel, remains intact.
A translation is rarely perfect, it always distorts the original text, or the artistic play of an actor. I have a lot of fun when I watch Lieutenant Columbo speaking in French or German...
However, we all need a neutral and practical universal language to communicate with the rest of the world. Now, for various reasons, it's English. Yesterday, French was much more widely used. Tomorrow may be Chinese... So the world goes. That's all.
Kind regards,
- Mohamed
There are several researchers from different part of the world both English and non-English speaking so I wouldnt have issue with someone managing to express himself in a language that is not originally his once the idea and meaning is perfectly understood.
Most of the time, given sufficient expertise, few problem is caused for questions and answers, but there ARE cases of language-induced problems, so better language proficiency is for better communication, that is for sure.
Dear Mohamed Akbi,
Your phrase "However, we all need a neutral and practical universal language to communicate with the rest of the world. Now, for various reasons, it's English. Yesterday, French was much more widely used. Tomorrow may be Chinese... So the world goes. That's all" stimulates the creation of a "practical universal language to communicate with the rest of the world". However, practice shows that many people find it very difficult to learn English, e.g. in China
https://www.researchgate.net/post/English_language_is_the_most_used_in_the_world_why_not_Chinese_Indian_or_others "Tingchang Yin: No Chinese answers, that's a pity. Chinese is very difficult to learn ...", although the Chinese produce an overwhelming number of products around the world. However, already there is a universal language - this is the Language of Mathematics, in which scientists from all over the world communicate. Maybe it makes sense to take this language as a basis and develop a more advanced universal language. In addition, there are at least two other universal languages - the Language of Music and the Language of Images, which everyone understands and we often underestimate these properties, but these properties have a huge potential for their practical implementation. Thus, maybe the time has come to combine together the Language of Math + the Language of Music + the Language of Images to create the Universal Language.
Reading the questions and answers of RG members, I never thought about the quality of the language. I am only interested in the content. In addition, there was no case that I did not understand what person wanted to express (at least it seems to me). This is enough for me. Of course, native speakers have an advantage. However, is there a uniform English language? (In one of Thornton Wilder’s novels, there is a phrase: "His awful English, cleared by a long stay in US ..." (author was talking about England-born man, reverse translation is my).
Can we demand high-level English? Take a look around. Do all your compatriots speak their native language well? I live in a Russian-speaking environment, I think and I speak mostly Russian. Therefore, I can see perfectly on what barbarous language people around me communicate (I will not say anything about epistolary samples, this mostly is out of analysis). I cannot demand an ideal language from them. I speak with everyone using understandable variant. It would be very strange if I started to speak by Turgenev's language in the store, for example. I can do it (as well as speak by Moscow, South-Russian, St. Petersburg, Ural-Siberian dialects; local street, scientific, computer slangs and so on), but I do not want look like a fool. If we talk about the attempts of some foreigners to say something in Russian ... As a rule, it is funny, but a normal person always tries to understand the meaning, and not correct language (although there are different national traditions here ...). On the other hand, each language changes over time. Both Russian and English were changed during last 50 years. For example, my teacher at the university told us: "A policeman is investigating, but a scientist is researching". Now, as I see in the articles, the scientists mostly investigate... I have never seen physicochemical articles written by Shakespeare's language. Moreover, I hope that I will not see.
In conclusion: A Russian anecdote (I understand that I write long, but I cannot do anything with myself). The preliminary note - in Russia now there are two main dialects: St. Petersburg (art, literature, etc.), it is the language of the upper layer of the intelligentsia; and the Moscow dialect which is mainly used for politics and business. The majority perceives the third - South-Russian dialect as unacceptable and rude. So:
Three men: a Muscovite, a St. Petersburger and a Southerner are travel together in the train. After a few cups of vodka, the St. Petersburger tells where he comes from. The Southerner answers: "Yeah, I hear that you have such strange talk!" (This phrase pronounced with a strong southern accent) ...
Vadim S. Gorshkov
I fully support your opinion. I can add the following. Yes, I confirm that St. Petersburg Russian is the most literary language in Russia. When I was in St. Petersburg many times, I was always surprised that the speech of the citizens of St. Petersburg was very poeticized without any words of parasites, all the phrases were built one to one without any superfluous words and it was always very pleasant to listen regardless of what they were talking about. In Moscow speech unlike St. Petersburg is worker-peasant, Russian words are often used as parasites such as "значит", "вот" and so on. Yes, by the nature of the dialect, you can always determine "Where are you from". There is a phrase "All northerners save on vowels". When a director Valery Todorovsky moved to live in Moscow from Odessa, all people around him laughed at his Odessa accent. I heard such a scene: In the USA there was a meeting of the team of "Club of Merry and Resourceful" (in Russian КВН) former Russian citizens and the КВН team from today's Russia. They have been answering questions from the audience. There was such a question from a Russian immigrant to the team from today's Russia: "Advise how to be, we are in a very difficult situation. If we speak English then all around laugh, if we speak Russian then nobody understand". The answer was the following: "We advise you to speak Hebrew and at least to you will be sympathetic".
Because English is not my native tongue, in most cases I understand what one is trying to say. I was in that situation before.
I disagree with the question
This forum is for discussion of researcher all across the globe
and most of the time English is not native or first language
You are free to agree or disagree with the question, Rai Waqas Azfar Khan. If you have read the question carefully with its additional comment, you will realize that I have mentioned the word(some) not (many or a lot of) and I have also mentioned the word ( may) make mistakes that create ambiguity. This is a universal phenomenon that happens in all languages of the world, with native and non-native speakers. Actually, I didn't mean to be aggressive or underestimate the talents of my RG colleagues. I ask you and all my other RG colleagues to go back to my question again and have a look at it again and make sure if it has any aggressive or bad connotations. I agree with all that understanding the question is the first priority. If this requirement is met, then there is no problem. Best regards. Hazim.
English today is the most popular language among academia worldwide. And English is versatile & takes local forms.
So scholars & researchers, please do not hesitate to put across your questions & views just because you think your English is weak. The essence of your message all will be able to understand.
I totally agree with u Dr. Hazim. Honestly, when we try to type a comment, we need to review it before submitting it. In this case, this will avoid having this kind of language that we call "poor language."
Dear Gennady Fedulov,
Have a nice day!
I agree with you on a lot of things and I hope that your wishes will one day come true... But by remaining pragmatic, the reality is quite different. My brother prepared a Master's degree in image processing at a university in Beijing and the teaching there was in English and not in Chinese... That's is the reality of the world, now.
Regards.
Dear colleagues
it more accurate to write research in our native language.
In future, I think that journal will accept all languages as the translation tools will be more efficiently than now !!
Thank you very much , Kareem Sebaa for your answer. Currently, many RG colleagues write. Their research papers in their native languages. Clariry is of questions is always needed so as to rule out any confusion or ambiguity. Best regards. Hazim.
I occasionally came across with this discussion when it seems to be ended. English is not my native language and I perfectly understand how difficult is clearly formulate the question. There are two things which really irritates me in questions/answers. The check spelling is embedded in RG platform, but often the people ignore it. Very often the first and last names are misspelled and don't start with a capital letter. Incorrect scientific terminology, uncommon abbreviation are often used. These are the cases when the problem is not in bad English but in careless writing. This can't be tolerated. My main concern in RG forum is not English but the quality of questions and answers, which deserves a separate discussion. .
Thank you very much, Yurii Geletii for your marvellous answer. Best regards. Hazim.
True! Sometimes we encounter posted questions and discussions that are composed in poor English. However, since it is not their native language it is to a certain extent acceptable. And yes, sometimes question written in poor English affect our answers since it is sometimes difficult to understand intention of the question.
Dear All,
Obviously, RG colleagues with a low level of English will improve over time. This type of forum will help them for this purpose. So, let's help them by being indulgent to them. Above all, seek the meaning of their questions and turn a blind eye to grammatical mistakes. They are usually, above all, scientists. Do not worry! Others who do not want to make an effort to learn English will sooner or later leave this kind of discussion. I know a lot since I come from a country where French still occupies an important place.
Kind regards.
Thank you very much, Mohamed Akbi fot your interesting answer. Best regards. Hazim.
Poor English in this regard is not that important as far as the message or the communicative intent conveyed by what they write is understandable. However, it becomes a problem when what they want to communicate to others cannot be got or got wrongly.
The problem of poor English cannot be solved instantly. However, it is irritating to see certain questions and answers with spelling mistakes. Use the edit button on the top right corner for correcting your already uploaded question or answer. While you write, you can also use the spellcheck facility.
Thank you Professor Fareed Hameed Al- Hibdawi for your interesting answer. I do agree with you that understanding the message is the first priority. I look forward to seeing you. Best regards. Hazim.
Thanks Dr.Hazim. By God's willing, very soon.I do also aspire to meeting you as we haven't seen each other for ages. I'm happy we are here together communicating ideas on RG. My Best regards.
hi, it seems unimportant while focusing on the message not the form . however, while answering their questions, we don't know whether they can understand you . their poor English demotivates us to talk about the complex structures or concepts. it can influence our communication unconsciously.
Accuracy is important to avoid misunderstanding. It is an indicator of linguistic competence and being well educated . Errors are unavoidable as a result of poor linguistic competence, or lack of practice. But as long as you can comprehend what is said correctly, and the errors made are minor not affecting receiver's understanding of the thought.
Of course. But English is the link language, particularly to the to be developed countries. Ours mother tongue is different from language difficulty you mentioned. Since, childhood in home, society, schools, in always, the communication is in local language. Other thing, many of the people, include me, think and frame the reply content in our local language and made effort to answer in English. Anthor, point to mention is typing errors. But, many researchers will give preference to the content not the grammar. Language is only add colour to the content. Sorry if I am wrong.
Dear vasudeva rao b.s,
I guess that in all languages the first and last names should start from capital letters. Yours, "Anthor, point to mention is typing errors." Careless in writing is not acceptable for professionals, especially for teachers.
" many researchers will give preference to the content not the grammar. " Yes, but this does not mean that you could be careless in writing.
While reading the questions and the answers of the experts on the RG, I noticed that most experts focus on receiving the right meaning from the questioner and sharing their knowledge. However, as @ Yurii V Geletii Sir mentioned, "careless in writing is not acceptable for professionals" and, sometimes, they may be upset and the questioner pays the cost of that.
If the English in which the the question is written is too poor that we cannot understand the meaning of the question ( eg. bad expressions, word misuse, etc.), this may lead to misunderstand it, and then to affect the response. However, the little typos due sometimes to fast typing, shouldn't be a problem in my opinion.
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