Hello fellow researchers,
I just want to add and recommend this recent comment published in Nature.
Pseudoscience and COVID-19 — we’ve had enough already.
The scientific community must take up cudgels in the battle against bunk.
Timothy Caulfield, Nature, April, 2020
doi: 10.1038/d41586-020-01266-z
I would add and emphasis that getting those misinformation from researchers is the worst and devastating more than any other politician as we see every moment a lot of published information nowadays which is just for the the sake of publishing misleading the public and scientific community especially with expedited reviews.
Just replace the word Covid with the word Influenza:
Now check if what is being said and/or done still makes senses?
This is a simple Test-for-BS that anyone can do.
Preprint Use of product labels to investigate the treatment of Covid-...
It has been suggested that ingestion of disinfectants may be beneficial to treat patients infected with SARS-CoV-2. DO NOT DO THIS. IT IS HARMFUL TO HUMAN HEALTH.
The above article is pseudoscience but I hope that it is of interest and provides some light relief.
The Rise of New Coronavirus Infection (COVID-19): A Recent Update
- DOI: 10.14744/ejmo.2020.22222
We are seeing here the consequence of Over-Specialization in Science.
Widespread ignorance about biology and especially the Immune system.
This is why I started writing my Life-Essays series: to share the results of my systems investigations into human life forms.
See attached or in my projects.
Because the damage which happened by COVID- 19 in all the world, so that (the researchers and scientific journals ) in this field thirsty to any information about this so that lead to see pseudoscience.
Pseudoscience is a consequence of ignorance. Medical science is an imprecise business with huge gaps in our knowledge. There is a myth that we have conquered illness or that we are only a short way from doing so. It is pure fantasy.
While orthodox science promotes such hubristic ideas it is certain that pseudoscience and myth will continue.
Barry Turner
Dear Barry:
The term 'Pseudoscience' is JUST rhetoric to shut down the competition.
Medicine is a pseudoscience once we reach the level of chronic
personal conditions. The difficulty is that Medicine is NOT a science
because each of us is unique (both DNA, life/immunity). Doctors,
like so many professionals, are recruited because they have
good memories and conservative personalities. This means
that they are good at repeating ideas that have been accepted
but reject new ideas. We are now meeting Complexity and
Uniqueness in our examination of the 'Objective' world. We
need a new paradigm.
Most practitioners readily accept that medicine is not a science. At my university we have two distinct courses medicine and biomedical science. Those studying medicine do not get taught the higher levels of biomedical science and I know from my own experience that few MD's study pharmacology or have any real understanding of pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics. .
I work with adverse drug reactions and know from many years experience that the mechanism by which drugs work is often poorly understood, yet we nevertheless continue to prescribe based on a loose concept of 'efficacy'.
I do not necessarily however accept that pseudoscience is simply a term to dismiss the competition. I have seen more of my fair share of pseudoscience firmly embedded in the realms of 'orthodox' science, especially in medicine.
I would value your opinions.
https://www.researchgate.net/post/What_is_it_that_makes_us_all_experts_in_a_crisis
Dear Dr. Herb!
Please let me argue that the best way of fighting confusion fueled by pseudoscience is to stick with trusted sources of scientific information and making certain that these sets of information are available quickly to the parties in need:
Editorial (2020). "All that’s fit to preprint: COVID-19 has reinforced the importance of preprints as an indispensable means for rapid research dissemination." 5 May 2020, Nature Biotechnology, © 2020 Springer Nature Limited Available at:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41587-020-0536-x#citeas
The BrightTALK - platform is free of charge trusted source for networking:
1) https://www.brighttalk.com/join/
2) https://www.brighttalk.com/topic/coronavirus/
3) Webinar (2020). "Infectious Disease Outbreak Research: Insights and Trends"
Speskers: Dr. Jayabalasingham (Senior Product Manager), Dr. Hessen (Director, Point of Care) & Mr. James (Senior Product Manager) 30 March 2020
4) Tibco (2020). "COVID-19 (Coronavirus) Visual Analysis Hub: Supporting the community, sharing insights" Copyright © 2020 TIBCO Software Inc. Available at: https://www.tibco.com/covid19 & https://www.brighttalk.com/channel/17090/
Yours sincerely, Bulcsu Szekely
Bulcsu Szekely Barry Turner Suraj Mali
Dear Bulcsu:
You advise that we "stick with trusted sources of scientific information".
Is this just covert advice to listen to Orthodoxy and self-defined "Experts"?
My criticism of Science (especially Medicine) is that we have now reached the
level of atoms and molecules for an "explanation". How on on Earth can we isolate a single virus that is maybe a few atoms in size? We cannot do experiments at this scale, so it's just an act of our imagination and talking.
Medicine has arisen from stable anatomy and observable symptoms.
Science was built on the model of math: we can all agree on the existence of finite objects [number blocks, etc.] because these objects are big enough to interact with our sense organs, persist across long time periods and remain inert. These are NOT the characteristics of viruses that we have imagined as explanations of the source of observable medical symptoms. We are FLOUNDERING.
Dear Dr. Herb!
I do agree with YOU though only partly:
"How on on Earth can we isolate a single virus that is maybe a few atoms in size?""
It is possible to isolate this virus. Actually very recently Prof. Lajos Baranyai (CEO Kelsius Systems Group) managed to develop a new type of active peptide that can block the overreaction of the immune system "cytokine storm" of a human body while fighting against the virus. According to his finding, the biggest problem that leads in many cases to death is this overreaction of the human body. He is developing a new therapy which will be publicly available sometimes in the future. Please let me also comment: " Is this just covert advice to listen to Orthodoxy and self-defined "Experts"?" BrightTALK - platform is community for companies such as Elsevier B.V.: https://www.brighttalk.com/channel/13819/
BrightTALK Inc. has set up an ecosystem with professionals and these people ARE NOT "SELD-DEFINED EXPERTS" - the following channel is a good example:
https://www.brighttalk.com/channel/16527/
Yours sincerely, Bulcsu Szekely
The virus is considerably larger than 'a few atoms in size'
It already has been identified by scanning electron microscope.
Its genetic profile is understood, which is why we know what type of virus it is.
The genetic code of its victims however is considerable more complex since we are eukaryotes.
We are rather more difficult to understand as this event has made dramatically obvious.
Bulcsu Szekely
Dear Bulcsu:
Thank you for sharing information on Prof. Baranyai's peptide project; we can only hope he has every success. However, this does not address my main criticism of examining singular atomic-scale objects, like viruses. As few know, Pasteur created a successful antidote to the Rabies virus BEFORE anyone knew anything about viruses, so some methods "work in the dark" but progress needs bright lights to shine on the objects we are investigating. Pasteur's method did not help in coming up with a vaccine for the polio virus, for example.
Here is the first part of my investigation of the human immune system (innate).
I shall release the second part (adaptive) that addresses the threat from viruses soon.
Barry Turner
Dear Barry:
I have investigated the Transmission Electron Microscope (TEM) that seems to have the highest resolution of biological organisms. However, let me quote from Bruce Alberts' magisterial "Molecular Biology of the Cell" - 5th Edition (2008), where (page 611) he writes: "A protein molecule can tolerate a dose of only a few tens of electrons per square nanometer without damage, and this dose is orders of magnitude below what is needed to define an image at atomic resolution". He goes on to next say: "The solution is to obtain images of many identical molecules - perhaps tens of thousands of individual images - and combine them to produce an averaged image, revealing structural details that were hidden by the noise in the original images. this procedure is called 'Single Particle Reconstruction'. This needs molecular alignment; possible when they form crystalline arrays." So, how do we achieve this with a single type of virus? They are only active when INSIDE a single infected cell. Even micrographs of the polio virus simply appear as dozens of little circles; how do we establish these are actually polio viruses being imaged? What techniques are used to examine the DNA/RNA sequence of a virus? An online reference to a description of the details would be much appreciated? So, are we seeing Computer Graphics in all these images of viruses on TV? Why not?
These panic TV manipulators know the power of visual imagery to convince the public - I'm sure you remember the images of aircraft crashing into the Towers on 9/11?
Herb
I am not sure what your point is. A virus, even a simple one contains a very large number of molecules and it is vastly larger than an atom. What is the purpose of what you describe as atomic resolution?
We do know what these things look like and the CGI images are accurate representations.
It is not necessary to see inside the cell that the virus infects because we know the biochemical mechanism by which it does this.
This article may be of interest.
https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2009-02/ru-ipa021309.php
Barry Turner Just saw your ppt on the scientific method. Excellent. Should be widely distributed and discussed.
Barry Turner
“Most practitioners readily accept that medicine is not a science.”
I do not know how to assess this statement that you made.
I agree that it is important to distinguish science from pseudo-science.
Is there anything between science and pseudo-science? In other words, an idea may not be scientific, but does it necessarily imply that it is pseudo-science?
Dear Joseph Tham it is our planning and implementation to do whatever we plan. If we success means we are good planner if not that means we are not good manger, we have not control on our nature but our nature has control on us.
Medicine is neither a science or pseudoscience. Medical treatment depends on far more than a knowledge of anatomy and physiology. Medical ethics are part of medical practice and medicine practiced unethically is incredibly dangerous.
Medical ethics have been part of the physicians art for more than 4000 years. and the oldest law text ever discovered (The Code of Hammurabi) contains strict rules for medical practice.
So medicine is not a science, it is more than a science.
Modern medicine is far too complex to be 'a science' multiple sciences are at play and the role of the doctor is only one facet of it. Modern medicine cannot function without physics and chemistry but we cannot expect our doctors to be physicists and chemists. Modern medicine is in the main about pharmaceutical science. The apothecaries art is today every bit as important as the physicians.
Dear Dr. Herb!
Please let me again cite from your first comment on 6 May 2020:
"How on on Earth can we isolate a single virus that is maybe a few atoms in size? We cannot do experiments at this scale, so it's just an act of our imagination and talking."
Hereby below I enclose couple of articles:
1) Jeong-Min Kim et al. (2020). "Identification of Coronavirus Isolated from a Patient in Korea with COVID-19" Osong Public Health Res Perspect 2020;11(1):3-7 Available at:
Article Identification of Coronavirus Isolated from a Patient in Kor...
2) Antoni Trilla (2020). " One world, one health The novel coronavirus COVID-19 epidemic" Editorial article, Medicina Clinica Vol. 154. Issue 5. pages 175-177 (March 2020), Citation: " at the beginning of the flu season, until the alert was given due to the increase in severe cases (pneumonia) and it was possible to isolate and identify the coronavirus COVID-19 in several patients."
Available at:
https://www.elsevier.es/en-revista-medicina-clinica-english-edition--462-articulo-one-world-one-health-the-S2387020620300747
3) Victoria Rees (2020). "Researchers map vital atomic-scale protein on COVID-19" 20 February 2020, © Russell Publishing Limited, 2010-2020, Citation: " The team used cryogenic electron microscopy (cryo-EM) to make their atomic-scale 3D model. The molecule the team produced – and for which they obtained a structure.. ..They had already developed methods for locking coronavirus spike proteins into a shape that made them easier to analyse "
Available at:
https://www.drugtargetreview.com/news/56325/researchers-map-vital-atomic-scale-protein-on-covid-19/
Please let me ask, are you still certain about "We cannot do experiments at this scale" and that this is just an ACT OF OUR IMAGINATION AND TALKING?
Yours sincerely, Bulcsu Szekely
Bulcsu Szekely Barry Turner
Dear Bulcsu:
These papers are just "fashionable guesses".
I have finished my essay on the Adaptive Immune system [attached] that shows that a virus attacks one cell at a time. So, when a cell is infected, then How do we know what has infected it. Seems like we have invented Statistical Medicine to match our Statistical Mechanics for atoms and molecules.
Pseudoscience dominates some other popular social media sites. Science dominates on the Research Gate research portal.
Greetings,
Dariusz Prokopowicz
Dariusz Prokopowicz
Dear Darius:
So you BELIEVE there's no pseudo-science here on RG?
Phew! What a relief. Perhaps you can share your Truthing-Method,
to help more of us to be so convinced.
Barry Turner Bulcsu Szekely
Dear Barry:
Western medicine has been a Family Business until about 1900 when it became institutionalized, to a large degree. For over 100 years, young men from privileged families with conservative sentiments and very good memories have been recruited to repeat the Agreed Truths of this profession. Good doctors then started learning by experience; this is why it's the 'Art of Medicine'; not because it's not filled with physicists and chemist. These 'Few Good Men' trusted their first-hand experience, rather than the statistical (herd) medicine being pushed by commercial interests; this is why, it's so vital to find an excellent physician.
Barry Turner Medicine is neither a science nor a pseudo-science. What name should we give it? It is the art of science? The application of science? Engineering is the application of science. Is medicine the same? What is dentistry? Engineering for the teeth?
is it simply non-science with a neutral connotation. i think medicine as a discipline is more than an art or the application of science. please suggest some terms for this strange discipline between science and pseudo-science.
Psychiatry is about as scientific and evidence based as Voodoo.
If virology and epidemiology worked by the same mechanisms the human race would be facing extinction.
Marc Herb How do you think the whole scientific community going to accept the suggestion from a person who has only knowledge of legal, policy, and ethical issues in medical research and its commercialization?
Hassan Izzeddin Sarsak
Barry TurnerWell, if medicine is evidence-based then why are we going through this nonsense of the Covid-19 panic?
Where is the science behind quarantining the healthy to avoid a minimal threat (death risk < 1% if not over 80 years old)?
Where's the science behind the Imposition of Universal Mandatory Vaccine for Covid (with unknown adjuvants and results)?
What kind of science denies vitamins & supplements because they could not afford a multi-million $ Double-Blind study?
What's the sense in misusing our ICUs for people about to die (Ventilators make them worse)?
Where's the science in limiting health research to drugs from pharmaceutical corporations?
Our hospitals where not built for these situations; that's what hospices are for (places to die in).
Where are the sanitaria to isolate the possible sick with observed symptoms (not those emerging "positive" from a bogus test)?
As one can see from these PROVOCATIVE questions, there's a lot of Politics hiding behind Pseudo-Medicine questions.
Herb Spencer Great response. Now if only members of RG would read and think about your comments.
Well, if medicine is evidence-based then why are we going through this nonsense of the Covid-19 panic?
The media and the politicians make it into a panic. In my experience I have not seen anyone panicking. The only excessive emotional response seems to come from those who think that society will collapse if the retail trade does not reopen.
Where is the science behind quarantining the healthy to avoid a minimal threat (death risk < 1% if not over 80 years old)?
People under 80 interact with those over 80. We live in societies that have families. I presume you would not be sanguine about typhoid carriers wandering about in the community
Where's the science behind the Imposition of Universal Mandatory Vaccine for Covid (with unknown adjuvants and results)?
Having rules that are designed to protect society may not be scientific but sensible people don't object to laws and regulations that control danger.
What kind of science denies vitamins & supplements because they could not afford a multi-million $ Double-Blind study?
Answering a question with a question, what kind of science suggests that vitamins and supplements prevent viral infections...they don't.
What's the sense in misusing our ICUs for people about to die (Ventilators make them worse)?
Because we apply medical ethics universally and medicine without ethics is incredibly dangerous. It is a medical practitioners professional duty to attempt to save a patient. In any case patients who cannot be saved are not left on ventilators because triage is applied in ICU's
Where's the science in limiting health research to drugs from pharmaceutical corporations?
Health research is not limited to drugs.
Our hospitals where not built for these situations; that's what hospices are for (places to die in).
Our hospitals are built for these 'things'. We do not transfer people to hospices because they have potentially life threatening diseases or we would need a hell of a lot more hospices.
Where are the sanitaria to isolate the possible sick with observed symptoms (not those emerging "positive" from a bogus test)?
I presume there is validated evidence that the test is 'bogus'?
As one can see from these PROVOCATIVE questions, there's a lot of Politics hiding behind Pseudo-Medicine questions.
Yes indeed, politicians and journalists will always try to make capital out of these crises as do loons who think 5G is the cause of Covid-19 or crackpots who think everything that happens in the world is the result of a conspiracy.
Barry Turner
Barry:
People > 80 die - it's called "Old Age"; get real people.
SAFE is a myth - life is a Risk Adventure.
Vitamins etc. keep one healthy; stronger immune systems resist all diseases.
Health Research is 90% funded by Big Pharma i.e. FOR PROFIT.
Exactly: More sanitaria + More hospices AND Fewer Hospitals.
BARRY: Your responses seem 100% Medical Orthodoxy - the guys who screwed us.
Not all of us do work on behalf of the Pharma industry...even in the Pharma schools
Please have a look.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01266-z
Talha Bin Emran
Dear Talha:
That article you recommended was typical of the Medical Gang: "We are scientists and anyone who disagrees with us is doing pseudo-science".
Such declarations do not constitute Rational Discussion; please supply yourself.
The ultimate criteria should be if it is practically working or not, and it is really doesn't matter if it fits into some doctrines or not.
The problem for current science is, the specialisation creates too many specialities, and these specialities are contradicting to each other without integration. An expert knows "more and more about less and less until he knows absolutely everything about nothing."
One comment on the Cow urine in the nature paper. This is not pseudoscience. As cow needs all kinds of microorganisms for digestion (fermentation in rumen) and later uses these microorganisms as source of nutrition, they developed very strong immunity against these microorganisms. So Cow urine has a lot of antibodies to boost immunity:
Article Chemotherapeutic potential of cow urine: A review
But it is true that this doesn't help in the COVID-19 disease. For COVID-19, we don't need a strong immunity. The innate immunity like these two babies in the following link (which we all have) is sufficient:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12311579.
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-03-05/healthy-baby-coronavirus
What we need is the good health like the two babies. And actually, a strong immunity coupled with bad health (like most case of the old people with metabolic conditions) are the source of cytokine storm. So if we want to be safe in this pandemic, improve our health status. Vaccine may not help at all.
This is a critical time to make the public understand that "Health research is not limited to drugs." However, I'm afraid when scientists concentrate on publication other than proven scientific results.
Has there been any scientific research demonstrating that a person "with" Covid can infect another person who was shown prior to be uninfected?
In other words: WHERE'S THE SCIENCE AROUND ALL THIS COVID NONSENSE?
Agree with Emmanuel Stephen Oluwaseun that health research should not be limited to drugs. Actually, Health is largely worsened by drug research, as Oliver Wendell Holmes said one and a half centuries ago: "I firmly believe that if the whole materia medica as now used could be sunk to the bottom of the sea, it would be all the better for mankind - and all the worse for the fishes.":
Article Hazards of New Drugs: The scientific approach is necessary f...
Dear Herb Spencer , your essay is very interesting, but cleanliness is not the solution. As we human being rely on the microorganisms (viruses and bacteria ...) to activate our immune system and to obtain the essential nutrition:
Article Microbiota activation and regulation of innate and adaptive immunity
Article Animals in a bacterial world, a new imperative for the life sciences
Many pseudoscience and conspiracy theories appear on popular social media sites. On the other hand, scientific portals such as the Research Gate portal have reliable data and scientific knowledge.
Greetings,
Dariusz Prokopowicz
Ligen Yu
How can you deny that Cleanliness is not important to public health? Better sewers alone reduced cholera. Clean water is also vital to most people.
Many diseases transmit via the fecal/mouth pathway. Of course, good bacteria are healthful but these micro-organisms exist at a level we cannot see, so we cannot pick the 'good' ones.
However, to minimize cleanliness is scientific and arrogant nonsense.
Dear Herb Spencer , thank you for reading my comments and reply. The interaction of microorganisms like bacteria with us is very complicated.
Actually, there is no such things as good bacteria. All bacteria will do harm to our body if we hadn't developed our immune systems. This is how patients with HIV infections suffering from opportunistic infections when they lost their immunity.
Yet, if we are healthy with normal functioning immunity, the situation is different. Now the bacteria are necessary for our health, as they activate our immune system, and furthermore, they are the irreplaceable source of nutrition for our body:
https://www.researchgate.net/post/How_a_cow_gets_all_the_nutrients_by_just_eating_grass
Ligen Yu
If you had read my paper [attached] you would see I know all you are repeating here. Biology exposes the simplicity and triviality of physics and linear math.
The human organism is too complicated to describe all the observations unambiguously with the current state of knowledge.
Mirosław Grzesik
Western Science has developed within the LINEAR Approximation ("Good enough"). Cellular biology is driven by enzymes that need EXACT fits for hundreds of parallel activities, needing superb temporal co-ordination; so, huge complexity.
THUS, EVERY human being is biologically unique at the cellular level: this means that western medicine is facing an unbeatable challenge at this time.
Barry Turner Michael A. Cretacci
"Science" is used today like Religion was used in medieval times; as an excuse to get mass conformity from the population that cannot challenge the claims of the "experts". Priests threatened people with infection by a devil, medics now threaten us with viruses. There is NO evidence for either existent. They show the confusion between thinking (ideas) and material reality.
The forge of pseudoscience and conspiracy theories on COVID-19 treatments is pronounced by traditional healers and cocky politicians who are themselves not well-aware of the condition the public is living in and the nature of the virus. For example, to our surprise, Madagascar has announced with diligence the invention of home-brewed remedy to COVID-19 amidst a surge of anxiety although the protocols adopted and the compounds used to produce the thought to be medicine have been remained vague. Traditional healers and even the public prescribe traditional medicines and ritualize to evade COVID-19 or widely prophesize on the fate of the pandemic. Plants like garlic, ginger, hot pepper, lemon have been widely recommended to reduce the impact of the pandemic. Though these plants may possess some anti-viral compounds and they are normally included in our daily meals, their efficacy against the COVID-19 would be the subject of further studies. It has also been noted that high profile politicians, barely knowing the health profession, have tried to prescribe treatments to ease the suffering of COVID-19 patients. There is politically motivated high echoing rumour whether the virus was naturally evolved, escaped from a lab, or artificially created to serve as a bioweapon.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7323368/
There is some evidence that alternative treatments and placebo effects can relieve distress — a common justification for tolerating unproven alternative treatments. But it’s inappropriate to deceive people (even for their benefit) with magical thinking, and it is inappropriate for scientists to let such misinformation go unremarked. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01266-z
Current study identifies resveratrol as a potential antiviral candidate that is capable of inhibiting SARS-CoV-2 replication. Previously, it has been reported that resveratrol reduces cellular inflammation by decreasing the production of nitric oxide. Moreover, there is much evidence showing that resveratrol acts as a potent antioxidant. Another benefit of resveratrol is that it does not cause any serious adversity even when used at a very high concentration. Because oxidative stress and inflammation are common consequences of any viral infection, the scientists believe that resveratrol holds the potency to be used as an effective therapeutic agent to treat COVID-19 patients.
https://www.news-medical.net/amp/news/20201127/Resveratrol-shows-potential-as-SARS-CoV-2-antiviral-study-finds.aspx
Resveratrol inhibits the replication of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS‐CoV‐2) in cultured Vero cells https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ptr.6916
Covid-19 is showing in real time all deficiencies in our understanding of biology and medicine. From this infection we are learning that our scientific research is not sufficient to face real, highly contagious and highly mortal infections.
For example very recently, we started to uncover importance of gut microbiota on human health. Microbiota dysbiosis is shown to be the major player in all civilization diseases and strongly defines our immune response.
There is a chance that healing systemic inflammation caused by gut microbiota dysbiosis that is standing behind almost all civilization diseases can help humans to face such disastrous infections in the future.
We are still at the beginning of this path uncovering the effect of gut microbiota disbios on human, and animal health. You can read paper on this topic shared in the project complexity in medicine:
https://www.researchgate.net/project/Complexity-in-Medicine-Practical-Problems-Their-Definitions-Models-and-Solutions
Jiří Kroc Marc Herb Michael A. Cretacci Mirosław Grzesik
All the epidemiologists ASSUME the exponential equation for propagation of a virus. This is FALSE. It is only VALID when every infected person CONTINUES to keep infecting others. But once these people are undergoing treatment, then they are NOT infecting others. Thus, NO constant R0 once treatments begin (too big).
So, all the Epidemiological models are false.
It's like the stock exchange. One can try to guess and sometimes one will succeed and sometimes one will not. Of course, one can try to rely on insider information as long as one have access to it. In the case of an epidemic, however, there are no such possibilities. Here, using the wrong model and making predictions based on it will cost many lives.
Our modern world seems doomed to be destroyed by failed professionals:
lawyers who become politicians, doctors becoming Chief Medical officers, etc.