Imagine Adam Smith would have proposed sustainability markets instead of the traditional market, Would Karl Marx had been able then to make a social case against sustainability markets?. And even if Karl Marx would have still proposed red socialism, who do you think would have won the cold war?
In my opinion, I think that, after a certain time, the battle that you are proposing would have been won by sustainable markets. This would be so because non-renewable resources, when they were about to run down, would increase the price of these raw materials, although Karl Marx had induced red socialism, because people would end up rebelling against the system, which has led to this market prices increase.
On the other hand, people also would rebel because of poor environmental quality of the atmosphere, water and soil as a result of the different types of pollution that cause traditional markets, such as CO2 or H2S emissions or the use of different pesticides, including the phenomenon of photochemical smog. All this would make red socialism disappear.
Dear Daniel, you are right. Under those conditions, Karl Marx would have not been able to make a social case against a market with no social sustainability gaps; and therefore red socialism would not have existed. By even if Karl Marx would have proposed red socialism, then red socialism vrs sustainability markets: we would have had a clash between a system with two active sustainability gaps, economic and environmental( red socialism) against as system with no sustainability gaps(sustainability markets) and therefore red socialism would have collapsed even faster than when facing bare capitlaism.....as both the economic sustainability gap and the environmental sustainability gap would have brought it down....
Daniel you may find these two articles interesting and you can use them as food for thoughts:
Did Adam Smith Missed the Chance to State the Goal and Structure of Sustainability Markets in His Time? If Yes, Which Could Be Some of the Possible Reasons Behind That?
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/286625136_Did_Adam_Smith_Missed_the_Chance_to_State_the_Goal_and_Structure_of_Sustainability_Markets_in_His_Time_If_Yes_Which_Could_Be_Some_of_the_Possible_Reasons_Behind_That
Karl Marx Vrs Sustainability Markets: Who would have won the cold war then? Would the World of Karl Marx Have Existed Then?
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/296849826_Karl_Marx_Vrs_Sustainability_Markets_Who_would_have_won_the_cold_war_then_Would_the_World_of_Karl_Marx_Have_Existed_Then
Article Did Adam Smith Miss the Chance to State the Goal and Structu...
Article Karl Marx Vrs Sustainability Markets: Who would have won the...
In the end, a functional market would win, whereby a market is capable of allocating resources through the pricing mechanism.
Consider the following:
1. As one resource is used, at a given price, faces competition from alternatives that are more convenient to use (or driven by consumer preference), readily transportable and available, and affordably priced, substitution could occur over time.
2. Technology changes could make one resource obsolete while facilitating another. This happened with coal, which declined with the adoption of internal combustion engines (i.e. replacing steam engines) that saw the dominance of oil.
3. Environmental costs are part of the costs of the use of a resource (i.e. coal and CO2 emissions). Consumer preference for cleaner fuels could switch the use from coal to gas, as we have seen in a number of markets.
4. In this case, the state as an economic agent, could internalise the costs of pollution by imposing a carbon tax. In effect, polluting fuels such as coal would be more expensive than gas or renewables.
Through the functioning of the market economy, a transition from fossil fuels to renewables could be facilitated.
I have addressed this in a number of my papers using a portfolio logic that you can download from my page for more details on the arguments.
Dear Ricardo, thank you for your comment. I think you comment came out of the topic,but here are my two comments:
1) the question relates to Karl Marx's model vrs sustainability markets, there is nothing there about green markets.
Given A = society, dominant/active a = society, dominated/passive
B = economy, dominannt/active b = economy dominated/passive
C = Environment, dominated/active c = environment, dominated/passive
Sustainability market's model can be indicated as below:
S = ABC as all components matter
Karl Marx's model can be stated as follows:
K = Abc as only society(A) matters
Given the model structures above of sustaibility market model and Karl Marx's model you can see:
a) that if Adam Smith would have stated sustainability markets instead of the traditional market Karl Marx would not have been able to make any case against sustainability market based capitalism, no social(A), no economic(B) and no environmental(C) case so red socialism most likely would not have existed. under these circunstances
b) however if still Karl Marx would have proposedand found support for red socialism against Sustainability market's then the paradigm clash would have had the following form::
K.S = (Abc)(ABC) = (AA)(bB)(cC) = A(bB)(cC)
If we make ECSG = bB and ESG = cC, where ECSG = economic sustainability gap and ESG = environmental sustainability gap, then
K.S = A(ECSG)(ESG)
The expression above says that the clash is between a system with two sustainability gaps(Karl Marx's model )against a system with no sustainability gap(sustainability market); and therefore the system with sustainability gaps under no win-win situations will collapse....
As Karl Marx's model can not live under capitalism deficits and environmenal deficits for ever, it will collapse under no win-win situation if facing sustainability markets.....probably if would have collapsed faster than it did in 1991 when facing pure capitalism....
You may find the following article interesting and you can use if as food for thoughts:
Adam Smith and Karl Marx Under the Sustainability Eye: Pointing Out and Comparing the Sustainability Gaps Behind these Two Great Simplification Failures.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/290607852_Adam_Smith_and_Karl_Marx_Under_the_Sustainability_Eye_Pointing_Out_and_Comparing_the_Sustainability_Gaps_Behind_these_Two_Great_Simplification_Failures
2) the content of your comment appears to relate to correcting the distorted traditional market to make it consitent with green markets by greening it by means of the carbon tax....
You may find these three papers interesting:
Complex and Man-made Markets: Are We Currently Approaching Sustainability in a Backward and More Chaotic Way in Terms of Economic Thinking?
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281277199_Complex_and_Man-made_Markets_Are_We_Currently_Approaching_Sustainability_in_a_Backward_and_More_Chaotic_Way_in_Terms_of_Economic_Thinking?ev=prf_pub
The Past Versus the Present in Development Thinking: Pointing Out the Structure of the Old Agricultural Development Model After Internalizing Environmental Externalities.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281244857_The_Past_Versus_the_Present_in_Development_Thinking_Pointing_Out_the_Structure_of_the_Old_Agricultural_Development_Model_After_Internalizing_Environmental_Externalities
What If Markets Have Always Been Distorted? Would It Then Be a Good Fix to Add Fair Trade Margins to Correct Distorted Agricultural Market Prices?.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281244562_What_If_Markets_Have_Always_Been_Distorted_Would_It_Then_Be_a_Good_Fix_to_Add_Fair_Trade_Margins_to_Correct_Distorted_Agricultural_Market_Prices
Have a nice day Ricardo
Article Adam Smith and Karl Marx Under the Sustainability Eye: Point...
Article Complex and Man-made Markets: Are We Currently Approaching S...
Article The Past Versus the Present in Development Thinking: Pointin...
Article What If Markets Have Always Been Distorted? Would It Then Be...
Thank you very much for all these articles,Lucio. They will be very useful.
Nice to hear that Daniel. If you would like to expand on those ideas you can find my most recent publication interesting:
Paradigm Evolution and Sustainability Thinking: Using a Sustainability Inversegram to State Paradigm Death and Shift Expectations under Win-Win and No Win-Win Situations
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/298353982_Paradigm_Evolution_and_Sustainability_Thinking_Using_a_Sustainability_Inversegram_to_State_Paradigm_Death_and_Shift_Expectations_under_Win-Win_and_No_Win-Win_Situations
Have a nice day.
Sharing my publications here as formal food for thoughts:
Adam Smith and Karl Marx Under the Sustainability Eye: Pointing Out and Comparing the Sustainability Gaps Behind these Two Great Simplification Failures
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/299885202_Adam_Smith_and_Karl_Marx_Under_the_Sustainability_Eye_Pointing_Out_and_Comparing_the_Sustainability_Gaps_Behind_these_Two_Great_Simplification_Failures
Understanding the Death and Paradigm Shift of Adam Smith’s model: Was Going Green the Only Option? If not, Is This Option the Most Sustainable One?
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/299882613_Understanding_the_Death_and_Paradigm_Shift_of_Adam_Smith%27s_model_Was_Going_Green_the_Only_Option_If_not_Is_This_Option_the_Most_Sustainable_One
The Unintended Consequences of Paradigm Death and Shift: Was the Arrow Impossibility Theorem Left Behind?
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/299879934_The_Unintended_Consequences_of_Paradigm_Death_and_Shift_Was_the_Arrow_Impossibility_Theorem_Left_Behind
Paradigm Evolution and Sustainability Thinking: Using a Sustainability Inversegram to State Paradigm Death and Shift Expectations under Win-Win and No Win-Win Situations
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/298353982_Paradigm_Evolution_and_Sustainability_Thinking_Using_a_Sustainability_Inversegram_to_State_Paradigm_Death_and_Shift_Expectations_under_Win-Win_and_No_Win-Win_Situations
Article Adam Smith and Karl Marx Under the Sustainability Eye: Point...
Article Understanding the Death and Paradigm Shift of Adam Smith’s m...
Article The Unintended Consequences of Paradigm Death and Shift: Was...
Data Paradigm Evolution and Sustainability Thinking: Using a Sust...
An interesting question. If Adam Smith proposed markets for sustainable pro-ecological development, ideologically I think this cold war would win even more, but unfortunately Adam Smith could not propose for sustainable economic systems and markets the principles of sustainable pro-ecological development, because in those ancient times there was no global warmin problem. the scale of environmental pollution at the beginning of the first industrial revolution was too small for anyone to see any negative aspects.
Best wishes
In view of the above, if Adam Smith proposed markets for sustainable pro-ecological development at the beginning of the industrial revolution, few people in those times could understand what is going on in such a theory, then perhaps Adam Smith would not appear in the history of economic thought as one of the most important researchers and precursors classical economics.
Best wishes
Dariusz, your comment is not consistent with the question
But your comment leads to these questions: what is the difference between Adam Smith theory and model structure and the sustainable pro-ecological development model you are talking about?
What type of market your model is based on?
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