Can gravitational waves be stopped? Gravitational waves carry energy. The sticky bead argument shows that this energy can be extracted: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sticky_bead_argument
But Lee Smolin points out that "In principle, nothing can screen out the force of gravity or stop the propagation of gravitational waves, so nothing can be perfectly isolated. I discovered this important point during my PhD studies. I wanted to model a box that contained gravitational waves bouncing back and forth inside, but my models kept failing, because the gravitational waves passed right through the walls".
If energy from gravitational waves can be extracted, does this mean that gravitational shielding exists?
Gravitational waves have all of the properties of all other waves. This is distinct from the issue of ``shielding" or ``screening", however.
That gravitational waves do work doesn't imply that they can be ``screened''.
Gravitational waves don't ``polarize'' matter.
Because nobody knows how vacuum works, I'm going to share with you one paper (as I see it).
For me is just the quantum vacuum. We are going through it with no resistance so complex to extract energy from something we traversed (as I see it we can even extract the energy from the vacuum, not from the waves) Please have a look to the attached file.
“…Gravitational waves have all of the properties of all other waves. This is distinct from the issue of ``shielding" or ``screening", however.
That gravitational waves do work doesn't imply that they can be ``screened''. …..”
- gravitational waves are coherent flows of particles “gravitons”, what is well similar to EM waves, which are coherent flows of particles “photons”. However what is rather principal difference in this case, since Gravity is extremely weak Force, in Matter some quantum gravitational structures don’t exist – in contrast to Electric Force,
- and so if EM waves interact with some material structure, they can be scattered and absorbed, while gravitational waves can be only scattered – though because of again extreme weakness of Gravity – mostly propagate through small material structures only with very partial interactions.
Nonetheless partial transmission of gravitons’ energy at interactions with macroscale objects happens, and so the waves are partially a bit screened. If waves impact on some cosmological object, the energy transmission can be large.
More about what is fundamental Nature Gravity [and Electric Force also, though] force - see the Shevchenko-Tokarevsky’s 2007 initial model of Gravity and Electric Forces in
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/365437307_The_informational_model_-_Gravity_and_Electric_Forces
Cheers
Wolfgang Konle,
"Black holes stop gravitational waves."
Would you care to elaborate on this statement?
Charles Wohl
Gravitational wave can enter black holes. But like photons or particles with rest mass, gravitational waves cannot leave black holes.
If there is ``shielding'', then there should be interference fringes. Observations of Moon and tides on Earth suggest addition without shielding by Moon of Sun's gravitation. But then it may be a matter of the size of the shielding. One view of inertia is the one side of the gravity force acts on test matter before the other side can be impacted by internal forces (not the force of gravity from the main body). But this doesn't hold as the force of gravity seems to ac on all parts of the test body at then same time. So, if there is shielding, it must be at the subatomic scale. Like a rock in a stream, the flow around the rock is disturbed for a short distance, but downstream there is now evidence of the rock. If the shielding is femtometre in size, then angstrom size scales wouldn't detect it, like the rock.
John Hodge "If there is shielding..."
No, we can explicitly exclude any static shielding of gravitation by mass. We also can exclude any shielding of electric fields by charges. Only a superposition of fields occurs. Opposite charges do not shield fields, they only superpose fields with opposite direction. Even a dielectric behaviour of matter is not a shielding of electrical fields.
A shielding of force fields would imply an extremely strange property of matter. Matter is concentrated in tiny spots, atomic nuclei. Mostly, matter is filled by empty space. These spots cannot shield something as extended as a force field. This is geometrically impossible, because shielding requires an impact with the same geometrical structure as what is to be shielded.
But we cannot exclude a gravitational impact of moving masses. We call such an impact to be a gravito-magnetic impact.
Dear John John Hodge ,
Wolfgang ( Wolfgang Konle ) has the right: ' A shielding of force fields would imply an extremely strange property of matter. Matter is concentrated in tiny spots, atomic nuclei. Mostly, matter is filled by empty space. These spots cannot shield something as extended as a force field. This is geometrically impossible, because shielding requires an impact with the same geometrical structure as what is to be shielded.'
I formulated an axiom not so long ago: Because the expression of nature takes place in a fractal form, for this reason, the laws of physics also become fractal, and this imposes a certain hierarchical order limit on these laws, which is itself a fractal dimension.
There is an example that gives a response to the question and satisfies the before-mentioned axiom:
Release a piece of stone on the surface of the water... then you will experience that the shielding of the Earth's gravity takes place in the water itself. This can also be checked with a scale. I didn't do it. but if I stand on the scale in water, I'm sure my weight will be less- Everyone says that it is caused by the buoyancy of the water. Let's accept that they are right.
Let's accept that they are right- Let's take a piece of iron, the weight of which is 1 kg. and let it fall in the water. When falling, a 1 kg iron weight will not weigh 1 kg on the scale... its value will be lower. Now it is no longer possible to say that the effect of buoyancy alone causes the change in weight, but we can note that the water itself affects the gravity field. In oil exploration, the places of boreholes are planned in the wrong place in many cases because the engineers cannot properly interpret the phenomenon of gravity in question...
Regards,
Laszlo
Wolfgang Konle , László Attila Horváth
Note: ``If the shielding is femtometre in size, then angstrom size scales wouldn't detect it, like the rock." The scale you mentioned were much greater than atomic scale. I speculate that the nuclear structure may show some shielding in the shape of nuclei. Note 2 things. 1) the proton vs neutron content as nuclei increase - there seems to be several jumps to plateau levels (several isotopes for a given proton count). 2) the metalicity (upper case Z) vs. radius observations of spiral galaxies, which is currently poorly explained (if at all), would be neatly explained if the nuclei were subject to gravitational shielding - note the shielding effect wound be on the surface (cross section a r^2 growth) and the gravity by the number of nucleons (a r^3 growth),
Dear John John Hodge ,
My concepts are incompatible with the current theoretical mainstream concepts. but what is interesting is that they give simple and acceptable answers to natural phenomena... I can thank you for this elegant principle:
'A világmindenség alap-létezésformájának kifejezése az apriori entitás (entitások) segítségével biztosítja a természetben jól működő következő axióma megfogalmazását: az apriori entitás segítségével kimutatható, hogy a természet létkifejeződése fraktál formában történik, ezért a velük kapcsolatos fizika törvények is fraktálodnak, csak egy bizonyos hierarchikus sorrend szab korlátokat ezeknek a törvényeknek, ami maga is fraktáldimenzió.'- The expression of the basic form of existence of the universe with the help of the a priori entity (entities) ensures the formulation of the following axiom that works well in nature:with the help of the a priori entity, it can be shown that the expression of nature takes place in a fractal form, therefore the laws of physics related to them are also fractal, only a certain hierarchical order sets limits to these laws, which itself is a fractal dimension - I am asking for your help to express the same thing in a more elegant way- Two months ago I got stuck on the brief description of the graviton this sentence helps me get out of this dead spot...
My idea is original, if it's good, it should explain the problem you raised. One thing is certain: you cannot explain the problem you described..
Regards,
Laszlo
László Attila Horváth
I'm puzzled by you last post. I also have held a fractal (self-similar) principle in the development of my STOE. (see 1). For example, the behavior of heat from a source and it's flow to a sink was used to model the CMB temperature of the universe (paper in 2006). Also, indicating another self-similar characteristic of negative feedback loops (which are seen in galaxy structure and room air conditioners). In my last post - the our scale observation is the use of fractional distillation that separates crude oil, for example.
So, ``... it should explain the problem you raised.'' What problem is that?
`` ...the problem you (me) described.'' What problem that is not described?
To me, fractal means to describe observations of the very big or very small using equations and causative processes (because our everyday experience from birth includes causation) of our everyday experience (our classical scale).
``...Two months ago I got stuck on the brief description of the graviton this sentence helps me get out of this dead spot...'' How? What was the solution?
1) Scalar Theory of Everything (STOE) unites the big, the small, and the four forces (GUT) by extending Newton's model
http://intellectualarchive.com/?link=item&id=2414
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YlJGdTvuTU
John Hodge "If the shielding is femtometre in size..."
Then it is no shielding. Gravitation is a weak force without a significant impact on atomic nuclei. Your shielding theory would require such a significant impact, that this impact itsself leads to a modification of the gravitational field, which causes the effect.
You only can expect something like this on the scope of black holes.
Dear John Hodge ,
Do not be puzzled, I do not want it. Proving the existence of the graviton particle took two years of hard work and thought... The inventor of fractals was inspired by nature. and thus created a mathematical concept. I don't do anything else, I just use the interpretation based on which it was created. So far, the idea behind the graviton seems very good.
Dear Wolfgang, Wolfgang Konle ,
. Gravitation is a weak force without a significant impact on atomic nuclei. Your shielding theory would require such a significant impact, that this impact itsself leads to a modification of the gravitational field, which causes the effect.'- 'A gravitáció gyenge erő, amely nem gyakorol jelentős hatást az atommagokra. Az Ön árnyékolási elmélete olyan jelentős hatást igényelne, hogy ez a hatás maga a gravitációs tér módosulásához vezet, ami a hatást okozza.'
Think for a moment, what happens in a small way happens much faster and its intensity is much more pronounced.
Fleas should be compared to fleas, goats to goats. Compared to its own size and mass, which jumps higher? and imagine if we go down to the atomic level: the quantum-sized jump. effects...
The effect of elementary gravity, - mascons, gravitons, varies greatly...
Black holes don't exist they may not be what they are made out to be.
Knowledge of the Earth helps in all respects in how to imagine those celestial bodies the size of stars that cannot be seen with telescopes, but produce a strong gravitational effect close to their surface. These celestial bodies are invisible because they do not emit light...
Black holes don't exist
Regards, Laszlo
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