Dear Dr. Babchin:

Some years ago, here, a specific cell to impedance measurements in liquids was developed. The impedancimeter work in the "radio frequency", from some microhertz up to 13 megahertz; typically from 1 Hz to 2-3 MHz. Along of these years, biofuels, automotive oils, vegetable oils, biofuels blends, alcohols and another have been further characterized. All fluids exhibits further response below and above 500 Hz. Polar fluids exhibits further dependence with electric field magnitude with specific enhancement depending on the of existence of bond hydrogen or conventional dipole moment. of molecule. In this sense, impedance spectroscopy of polar fluids can be sub-divided into two great-areas as follow: the first involve high frequencies in the range of microwave or highest, which can actuate under the dipole moment of the molecule, while the second in the radio-frequency domain which does not actuate on the molecular dipole moment. Here, seems that measurements in the radio-frequency can be detecting dipole-dipole interactions. In this sense, seems that similar information GHz - THz can be gained since further interpretation can be derived. As an example, seems that molecular clustering or some particular interactions between molecules can be further detected. As a whole, the called excess-properties can be easily observed in mixtures of polar fluids or polarizable fluids. It is possible to mention blends diesel-biodiesel, in which electrical and dielectrical function depending of mixture composition; that are not linear due strong molecular interactions.

Well, yet exist the question of a single liquid and its surface tension. As above-mentioned, electric field exhibits actuate under polar fluids. The combination of both specific frequency and magnitude of field also will be show further effects on the physical-chemistry properties of fluid. In this sense, new properties should propagate to the tension surface parameter also. In the practice, such properties can be reflected on the surface tension magnitude giving a surface tension "hardening" or surface tension "softening”. I expect such phenomenon be further detected in a mixture, or in additived fluid.

King regards

Marcos Nobre

I believe that this would be very interesting. However, the superposition of a strong DC would make the phase sensitive detection of the frequency dependent AC signal component very complicated. Additionally the liquids should be very pure to avoid conductivity effects and the electrode polarization at the blocking electrodes,or, alternatively the electrochemical reaction at  non-blocking electrodes. I have seen AC dielectric spectroscopy results with DC bias, but there the DC voltage was typically a few volts - probably not enough for orientation. I believe that this special effect could be studied if the liquid is place into a strong DC field and the dynamics could be studied in the other direction by mechanical relaxation (e.g. ultrasound) or by some scattering techniques, as light scattering or neutron scattering.

Very nice and deep answer from Gyorgy. And I would like to see the opinion of 2 friends of mine, Hanno from Germany and Demetris from Athens, both are professional Physicist. And so is from Mohamed, Alexandria, Egypt, who is a Theoretical Physicist of high standing..

Dear Alex,

please wait a little bit. I first must read and understand the papers.

Optoacoustics

 Luis,where are you ?  In Germany ?

Some time ago I proposed a somewhat related combination of IR spectroscopy with dielectric spectroscopy that would allow studying the relaxation behavior of specific functional groups. (It was a question here in RG: Combination of IR spectroscopy with dielectric spectroscopy?)

In the case proposed in this question, viscosity depends not only on the field strength and AC frequency, but on the shear rate of liquids as well. Both attached papers confirm this effect. This gives additional degree of freedom in studying of clustering phenomena in liquids.

It will be useful to connect up with the theories related to Magneto Hydro Dynamics (MHD) a phenomenon pursued by power engineers for mounting high efficiency thermodynamic cycles using plasma or high temperate gases. Vortex formation under the influence of terrestrial magnetism was another phenomenon explored by Soviet scientists.   

To GYORGY: With any new change RG decreasing the capability of the system, so, they reject to send my answer to you, So, I type it here.

The process of adsorption is practically instantaneous as the adsorbent contact the surface. Thus, the process is controlled by diffusion, in the absence of convection.

The characteristic time is determined as T* = ( L^2 ) / D, were D is the Diffusion Coefficient of adsorbent in given solvent, L is the characteristic length and depends on your particular process, but, in your case, can not be smaller then the length of the polymer molecule.

Regards,

Alex

Many thanks

Sure, Gyorgy, we are here to help and consult one another. This is my duty to share the knowledge with my peers, and Surface Phenomena is my major.

Dear Dr. Babchin:

Some years ago, here, a specific cell to impedance measurements in liquids was developed. The impedancimeter work in the "radio frequency", from some microhertz up to 13 megahertz; typically from 1 Hz to 2-3 MHz. Along of these years, biofuels, automotive oils, vegetable oils, biofuels blends, alcohols and another have been further characterized. All fluids exhibits further response below and above 500 Hz. Polar fluids exhibits further dependence with electric field magnitude with specific enhancement depending on the of existence of bond hydrogen or conventional dipole moment. of molecule. In this sense, impedance spectroscopy of polar fluids can be sub-divided into two great-areas as follow: the first involve high frequencies in the range of microwave or highest, which can actuate under the dipole moment of the molecule, while the second in the radio-frequency domain which does not actuate on the molecular dipole moment. Here, seems that measurements in the radio-frequency can be detecting dipole-dipole interactions. In this sense, seems that similar information GHz - THz can be gained since further interpretation can be derived. As an example, seems that molecular clustering or some particular interactions between molecules can be further detected. As a whole, the called excess-properties can be easily observed in mixtures of polar fluids or polarizable fluids. It is possible to mention blends diesel-biodiesel, in which electrical and dielectrical function depending of mixture composition; that are not linear due strong molecular interactions.

Well, yet exist the question of a single liquid and its surface tension. As above-mentioned, electric field exhibits actuate under polar fluids. The combination of both specific frequency and magnitude of field also will be show further effects on the physical-chemistry properties of fluid. In this sense, new properties should propagate to the tension surface parameter also. In the practice, such properties can be reflected on the surface tension magnitude giving a surface tension "hardening" or surface tension "softening”. I expect such phenomenon be further detected in a mixture, or in additived fluid.

King regards

Marcos Nobre

Magnificent, Marcos, I applaud ! 

This property could be used for the design of diodes and other devices--pl comment!

Ah, Marcos, and what is the cause for that strange behavior at the radiofrequency band? This effect causes no greater consternation than within biology and biological tissue.

Article Kramers-Kronig analysis of biological skin

Article An electromagnetic model for biological tissue

Thanks are due to Luis Cundin, my friend on RG, for posting 2 high class papers, which I am going to study in details.

Luis, please, give me e-mail at    [email protected]  about your current state of employment.. 

Dear Dr. Babchin and Dear Dr. Cundim:

I know the paper "Kramers-Kronig analysis of biological skin".

I read this paper tens of times. As the Professor Babchin had mentioned is a high-class material, author and referees made a beautiful work. In specific, I have a great faith in the Corollary 2.4 on the page 4.

Well, can be seem a bit strange, in fact very strange, but system based on water are very very complex, here in the Lab. there is a law that say that..."nobody can work with water if have not at least one PhD". In this sense, there is two type of phenomenon that have been detected in a series of analysis. The first class is associated to the charged species in solution. The second phenomenon is based on the presence and its concentration of some kind of organic molecules seems that: long chain, degree of branching of the molecule, charge effective of the radical group "change the water response". Also, both carbohydrate and dissolved gas exert further influence in the system based on the "water response", as tissues. In fact, my feeling is also of consternation and sometimes frustration, but is a beautiful frontier.

Kind regards

Marcos Nobre

Good examples, Marcos, thanks a lot.

Marcos, thank you kindly for your remarks... The transformation of RF dielectric values for tissue is controversial; but, I know them to be true, both theoretically and experimentally, where experimental truth is born out by Specific Absorption Rate measurements. As far as the model proffered up...I still think the explanation is up for grabs, especially, regarding fine structure, where my model treats the phenomenon in a rather coarse manner.