Dear Shibabrata Pattanayak

Although it is an interesting discussion, I not agree with you on the form in which it began.

The phytochemical screening of both the fresh and dry parts of the employed plant may lead to define if there is any difference between these parts in concerning these chemicals.

Regards

yes

An idiot, in modern use, is a stupid or foolish person. It was formerly a technical term in legal and psychiatric contexts for some kind of profound intellectual disability where the mental age is two years or less, and the person cannot guard himself or herself against common physical dangers.

Yes maybe!!!!

Fruits of sensitization normally achieved late.

Yes, I think we are not some idiots.

We are not idiots but just followers. I think it is due to the modern view of medicine since about the 14th century: they thought that plants act by the "quintessence" i.e. plants have an "essential" part which gives it the effect. You can see the history of development of western medicine.

3Aparna, the efficacy of treatments are subject to economical and political interpretations.

One of my research subjects is psychiatry with its prodigous use of drugs and equally prodigous claims for their benevolent effects. I am afraid we are being taken for idiots there. The trials for drugs are done on rodents with yes observation on patients. But understanding mental states is difficult especially when mental states are artificially suppressed. The evidence of efficacy is purely determined by psychiatry. They would, woundn't they?

Yes, we are not

An idiot, in modern use, is a stupid or foolish person. It was formerly a technical term in legal and psychiatric contexts for some kinds of profound intellectual disability where the mental age is two years or less, and the person cannot guard himself or herself against common physical dangers.

we are not some idiots

Dear Shibabrata Pattanayak

Although it is an interesting discussion, I not agree with you on the form in which it began.

The phytochemical screening of both the fresh and dry parts of the employed plant may lead to define if there is any difference between these parts in concerning these chemicals.

Regards

Yes we are not

All is business where mediators (industrialists) between people engaged in manufacturing (staff in manufacturing units) and people using (customers) attempt to gain all financial benefits.

Previously, Vaidyas (doctors in Ayurveda) did not accept any money for their services.

Dear Dr. Yasser Fakri Mustafa ,

Please add some example/s of analysis of succulent part/s of medicinal plants for validation of traditional claims. I will admit my mistake, if you can show such example/s.

Thanks.

Interesting

Tests with plant maceration is normally made at the begining

Sorry to give a positive answer. And any medicine has nothing to do with it. I will note that Dostoevsky also did not consider this character trait negative. As long as the world consists of idiots, there is room for improvement, in other words, we continue to live. The world will cease to exist as soon as all idiots disappear: there will be no one to improve, therefore the meaning of life will disappear.

Dear Dr. Vladimir Valentinovich Egorov ,

YES, the succulent parts of medicinal plants have relation with both "MEDICINE" and "TREATMENT".

But the concept is not developed among the researchers (all are having a basis of use of only synthetic chemicals as medicine) and no study has been performed on this subject so far!

How can you certify anything negative without studying it properly?

The whole scientific community is doing the same!!!!!!!!

Do you think it is not something idiotic???

Thanks.

I think yes.

Dear Dr. Shibabrata Pattanayak ,

This is far from the only and even the most terrible "gap" in medicine. It is quite possible that those vaccines against coronavirus, which we will begin to use widely in practice, apparently this fall, will be effective. For example, when I am going to visit your beautiful country in December, I am planning to give myself this vaccination. However, it does not at all follow from this that modern medicine has any fundamental knowledge on this subject. All knowledge is exclusively empirical. Many practical actions are based on past experience (read prejudice), which is modified to suit the new situation. I share your concerns, but I repeat that you are far from the only victim of the inertia of human thinking (read the inertia of "scientific" thinking).

Best regards,

Vladimir Egorov

Dear Dr. Vladimir Valentinovich Egorov ,

In relation with the marketable COVID -19 vaccine, but I want to share some previous incidences.

1. "FLU Vaccines" are produced and sold from past a few decades. It was seen many times that more people were died due to reaction of vaccines than due to original disease. So far I recollect, some such articles were punlished in 1990s.

The "tests" of the vaccines are performed in a controlled condition among some healthy individuals,, but in the population, the conditions are of numerous types and totally different from the controlled test conditions.

2. Once I thought to vaccinate my family members with Chicken Pox vaccines. But after reading their instructions and after studying the possible side effects' list, I left the desire.

3. The SARS virus (very near to COVID 19 virus) spread also made a panic in (perhaps in 2006), but no mass vaccination was planned by any country for unavailability of vaccines with less side effects and long lasting immunity.

4. The COVID 19 virus are having the ability to change their surface proteins (depending on which vaccines are developed and also antibodies work on them) regularly. I think this may be a problem for their effectiveness.

5. As per news, the antibodies developed in the persons cured from COVID 19 infection, can only able to protect them for only next three months.

How long vaccines will be able to protect? only for less than three months?

Generally, the cured person got highest protection than the vaccinated persons..

We have to wait for actual answer.

BUT

If business is the only considerationof production of COVID 19 vaccines, I can not say anything about these incoming Vaccines.

Thanks.

Dear Dr. Shibabrata Pattanayak ,

Thanks for the warning. But I understand all the risks: what about "war is like war".

Best,

VVE

The galenic pharmacy of the first half of the 20th century, at least in Poland, Germany and Japan, and probably of many other countries, covered the problem of persistence or loss of active bodies during drying or extracting the herbal stock. In the early 1900s a new type of basic preparation was introduced. It was the alcoholate/alcoholatura (when fresh plant parts were treated with warm spirit). Other solvents were tested, too, and the scientific term 'stabilization' was proposed. It became obvious that nothing could be reproduced in the lab that is practised in the folk medicine due to crucial discrepances in preparation process, drying, storing, harvesting conditions etc. The other discovery of those times was the role of secondary metabolities other than the known pharmacologically active ones, both in extracting process, persistence of the fluid preparation and in its resultant pharmaceutical activity. This is a long story and I don't know how these discoveries of the early 1900s are regarded as important today. Another new plot of those times was the daily or seasonal fluctuation of the secondary metabolites in plants. Etc.

Hope it could help.

Dear Dr. Jacek Drobnik,

Though to some extent long, but try to read the FAQ against Herbal medicines and their possible solutions of these questions added below.

Validation, quality and safety issues of Herbal medicines – the constrains and

possible solutions

A possible holistic approach to healthcare by herbs may be very attractive to the people, but some very strong challenges are also there. Such challenges can be removed by modifying the contemporary concept and following some new formula.

I. The herbal medicines generally used in combination and their sources are variable in many cases. Species of the plant, their growing conditions, availability of biologically active constituents among them etc. are main issues.

ii. The source of herbs may be non-dependable in nature. The medicinal parts of one herb may be contaminated or adulterated with other alike looking parts of another non medicinal herb. Herbs may contain toxic compounds as a nature of the plant variety or due to the effects of soil, fertilizer, pesticides etc.

Cultivation of medicinal plants with legitimate source of supply of seeds and cultivation of them near to their natural habitat or at any alike environment can solve these two problems.

iii Like the chemical medicines, herbal medicines may have undesirable side effects to some patients, may have drug-herb interaction of herb-herb interaction.

iv. Quality of herbal medicines has impact on their efficacy and safety. Regular evaluation of the quality of herbal medicines is required for that purpose. Facility of such study is not available.

Creation of required facilities to study these two issues is necessary.

v. Organisational, national and international data base regarding composition and quality of herbal medicines is very important for their commercial cultivation, preparation of medicines and their widespread global use.

That is not available due to the reasons like lack of proper policy at national and

international level and inability to think about a separate policy for herbal medicines. A positive approach can remove the problems.

vi. The present system of drug approval process involve identification and measure of quality and concentration of each component among a medicine beside other issues. But the herbal medicines are generally used as some mixtures. It is very much difficult as well as time and money consuming to identify and measure all the components present in an herbal mixture in the laboratories.

In the Allopathic system of medicine, different manufacturers of the molecule of each chemical medicine follow different systems to synthesise them. They generally keep it as a secret document. It is not uncommon to find that a single drug marketed by different manufacturers are having different level of activities. This problem is still there in case of marketed chemical medicines.

To solve the said problems of herbal medicines, analysis of main basic ingredients near the area of cultivation and then transport of them in sealed condition before mixing/ direct use by the consumers may be the option.

vii. As the raw herbs are purchased by the supplier from the market, there should be some technology to identify the quality of the materials during purchase. Such technology is not available.

Shifting of present system of purchase of raw herbs from the market to lifting of them from the field of cultivation may solve the issue.

viii. An efficient succulent herb may not be so effective at dry condition or in processed mixtures. So, the efficacy testing in all such steps are essential and such technology is not available.

ix. Determination of dose depends on the available effective or toxic phytochemicals present in the finished herbal product. Research report in that area is scarce.

x. A single effective herb contain multi-components. Some of them may be present at a negligible quantity, but may have strong influence on the efficacy of the herb. Identification and study of all such phyto-components is not possible with the present stage of knowledge in this field.

Creation of proper facility is the only solution of these three issues. It requires some new concept to create separate facilities particularly for herbal medicines. A copy-paste of the technologies applied for chemical medicines may not be effective to answer the issues related with herbal medicines.

For solving last a few questions, shifting of analysis policy from the contemporary

system followed during development of synthetic medicinal drug to a separate modified system for herbal medicines may be accepted as an effective option. As the target is different in these two systems, the analysis systems should also be different.

Presently practiced pattern followed for chemical as well as herbal medicines:

Diluent/ Chemical extraction/other source → active constituent isolation → safety and efficacy study → proceeding towards development of marketable medicines.

It may be shifted to a new pattern of study for herbal medicines:

Finished products/succulent bio-medicines → in vivo or in-patient study for validation of efficacy → dose and safety study → chemical composition analysis.

As the metabolic products of the phytoconstituents taken orally actually work inside our body system, so emphasis may be given to the effect of metabolic end products of such medicines, not on the isolated phytochemicals.

The other related research methodologies should also be different from those used for chemical medicines..........

Source:

Book Use of succulent bio-medicines to control COVID-19

Thanks.

it is a rhetorical and a psychological question. The answer depends on our definition of ’idiot’. However, in general, human beings are own a high level of intelligence that differentiates them from other species.

If we weren't idiots, we would put aside all fruitless squabbles and differences and would build "a heaven on earth".

Maybe to face life

"The ape went mad and became a human", V.Ivanov.

“Anybody who has traveled this far on a fool's errand," said Salo, "has no choice but to uphold the honor of fools by completing the errand.”

― Kurt Vonnegut, The Sirens of Titan

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/7899867-anybody-who-has-traveled-this-far-on-a-fool-s-errand?fbclid=IwAR1xqJxPLdFcOG1S6GfhA39FMcVKKRTCBwWUzpIXGQHK_OcB8oWQage036k

Sometimes we see ourselves as being unnatural

"A fool has become a norm, a little bit more and s/he will become an ideal", the Strugatsky brothers.

Not at all. Some times it comes true.

May be.

Actually some people really over than idiots.

The idiots destroy our life

with my regards

I think yes

I think yes

“I have the impression that if he didn't complicate his life so needlessly, he would die of boredom.”

― Boris Pasternak, Doctor Zhivago

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/293632-i-have-the-impression-that-if-he-didn-t-complicate-his?fbclid=IwAR0gguYOxtTd-DdKrCibWRZKesljwz2fG6XBOgqR4qbnK2uS_NYS0iQqBmE

Some times yes

“I am two fools, I know, For loving, and for saying so.”

― John Donne, The Complete English Poems

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/35148-i-am-two-fools-i-know-for-loving-and-for?fbclid=IwAR0iM9QQYWK5_WSk-2nCZQwfRMOFNCJnli61_SdTEF0Dt5A3w_wQD8cSKpw