Hello Alex

This is not something that I know much about, but wondered if this was of any help:

Ginewikwe, O. (2013). Gikinoo’amaagowin Anishinaabeg (Teaching the Anishinaabe People) (Doctoral dissertation, The University of Winnipeg).

http://ocwtest.freeculture.ca/bitstream/handle/10680/744/UWinnipeg_2013_McIvor_Colleen_Thesis.pdf?sequence=1

Very best wishes,

Mary

To Mary,

Very interesting thesis.

Surprised to see many words in Anishinabee resemble very ancient Greek. There must be a connection.

Cheers

Hi Alex:

I agree that there is much misleading literature on historical Anishinaabe spiritual practices. I would not consider waabanowinin a "ceremonial complex," although I think it is fair to call the Midewiwin that. The Midewiwin was an organized society with priests and levels of initiation, etc. In contrast, the way I understand it, waabano and shaawano describe different types of ritual experts, who may or may not also be members the Midewiwin society. The most commonly encountered Anishinaabe ritual expert that you've not mentioned is the jessakid. These ritual practitioners are classified by the types of powers they possessed and the types of ceremonies they performed. They were not organized into religious societies, but rather they served their communities based on their individual abilities. During the reservation era communities often became embroiled in spiritual contests among such practitioners, which has contributed to confusing the ethnographic record on their traditional roles. 

The term ogima refers to chiefs. It is not normally associated with religious practitioners, although some chiefs may have also been religious practitioners. I've never encountered the form ogimaawiwin, although that is not saying it doesn't happen. 

When studying historic Anishinaabe spiritual practices, I think it is important to become familiar with the classic ethnographies such as portions of Schoolcraft's five volume set, Hoffmann's work on the Midewiwin, Diamond Jenness on the Parry Island Ojibway, Frances Densmore's Chippewa Music (which deals with the Dream Dance), some of Ruth Landes' work, Samuel Barrett's work on the Menominee Dream Dance, and a few more sources that I'd have to search for on my shelves. Even though you will find errors in these works, their degree of descriptive detail cannot be matched by any current works available today. 

Hope you find this helpful!

Hello,

When you are looking for answers you should not be quick to discard the ones you are given. Then you applaud answers that give more questions than answers. I thought RG was a serious site for fruitful discussions?

"The term ogima refers to chiefs" Cory explains above. We are talking about the word "igemon", in ancient Greek "ηγεμων" the traditional chief or king of a community. His role was like a king. If his status was elevated by his actions (like Alexander the Great), then he would have religious power as well and more influence over his people or a whole nation.

To find the answers to your question, I suggest you read Homer and ancient Greek drama where cultural celebrations are described in great detail and are known well among archeologists / historians.

Hi Michael:

Thank you for your interesting insight into the similar-sounding ancient Greek word for chief or king. It is remarkable!

But, do you know the Anishinaabe language? Or any Algonquian languages? I'm puzzled to know your theory of how or why Anishinaabemowin would have any relation to ancient Greek. Even if that one word sounds the same, are you suggesting that the Ojibwa language somehow derives from Greek? This reminds me of the nineteenth century belief that North American indigenous peoples were the Lost Tribes of Israel. 

Since language is purely symbolic, in the Peircean semiotic sense, then the only way languages can be related is through culture contact - a theory of culture change known as diffusion. Please explain your theory of how Greek and Ojibway peoples may be historically related.

Thanks, Cory

To Cory,

I just saw your comments.

It is a very very very long story starting by the ancient Historians / philosophers / writers from Greece and Rome (Plutarch, Homer, Diodorus,Diogenes, etc, then tragic poets like Aeschylus just to name a few).

The Age of Exploration of the ancient Greeks started around 3,000 years BC(?) and the epics that have survived (Argonauts, Homer, Dionysus, etc ) describe travels throughout the world. The Greeks lived in islands and surrounding land with poor soil and limited resources. They had to travel to find arable land and metal resources for their industries. The Egyptians called them "Sea Peoples". Nobody else knows the sea, because they don't need it. Today, Greeks still owe the bulk of the world's commercial ships.

When Alexander the Great was leaving for the "conquest of Asia" he sought the advice of the philosopher Diogenes who was living in a barrel. Diogenes told him that Asia is not very big compared to the other continent which is across the ocean (America). That was 335 years BC.

The ancient Greeks used the name of Ayas or Ayioi (travellers) for the people going to and coming back from the Americas (Cronus land).

I worked 25 years teaching native peoples in Manitoba and I knew the language was "familiar" from the first day at work. To prove it was/ is a big task. I have been studying Cree dictionaries for years to find similarities and eventually it "clicked" not with modern Greek, not with classical Greek, but with Homeric Greek. 

The similarities are very easy to see, some words are identical (example, assini for rock). The "root" words in Cree are same or similar. Not only that it works the other way as well. Words in Cree like Mikina (turtle) explain Greek names that nobody knows what they mean, because they are very old and the knowledge was forgotten. Today, there are people in Greece who have explained literally every native name in North and South America (example, Oklahoma means red soil, Nicaragua means the place where the people have won, Guatemala, the place with lots of forests).

Language is one thing, similarities with facial features, social structure, governance, festivals, sports, ability to navigate in water are other aspects to consider.

You can ask the native students at Cross Lake, Manitoba who visit Greece for their school trip. They tell you they feel at home when they get there.

The story is big!

I have been trying to get a grant from the Canadian Government to get experts to study the languages and give "an expert opinion". Maybe we will find the answer?

Thanks for your response, Mary C R Wilson. As Alex's supervisor, I can tell you that he is familiar with Colleen's thesis as I supervised her thesis as well. It is very rewarding when your students' work is recognized! 

And thanks for Cory Willmot for your thoughtful response as well - it will be helpful to Alex's work.

Michael Issigonis, as a scholar, I am supportive of research inquiries, even when the particular proposal strikes a negative chord with me. I agree that cultural diffusion can and has happened throughout the world. However, as an anthropologist and Indigenous studies scholar, I am also acutely aware that cultural diffusion has also been used to diminish and deny the knowledge, practices, languages, beliefs, and sciences of Indigenous peoples. I hope that you find the answers you are looking for and hope that you are also cognizant of the painful and often shameful history of misrepresentation of Indigenous societies arrived at through western research. 

Hi all. Thanks for engaging with my question. I apologize for my (very) late response. 

My rather limited understanding in part comes from some of the instruction we got in our program from Anishinaabeg elders who were Midewiwin practioners here in Treaties 1/3 (Manitoba and Northwest Ontario).

As I can recall its explanation from 8 years ago. The waabanoowiwin, shaawanoogaa, ogimaawiwin, midewiwin are all Anishinaabe institutions are all related. The way I understood it was that they in part lined up with stages in your life, but your participation was also predicated on facing adversity. 

Ogimaawiwin has been translated specifically as leadership. But one thing that I learned was there was ceremony specifically tied to it that amounted to an institution beyond a singular ogimaa.