This idea of Bonhoeffer's can probably be unpacked on several levels. For example, it seems to me that this idea captures aspects of a theme that appears in the bible; e.g., "God requires that people act justly and love mercy" (Micah 6:8); "true religion is to look after orphans and widows in their distress" (James 1:27 and elsewhere); "faith without works is useless" (James 2:14-26). Viewed in this light, engagement with the world's problems may not simply be the "path towards faith" but also the very expression of faith. Thus suggesting that Bonhoeffer's idea of genuine faith was that true spirituality is not to be equated with those forms of spirituality which are content to be inwardly focused.

It depends if one's intentions are to contribute in finding just solutions to these problems or to profit from the situation! God of course knows everything.

" genuine religious faith " I hope you mean individuals need to be strong believers...

With that assumption - I do agree

If you have a faith in god then why don't you walk on the path of righteousness without getting lost !!!!

Thanks for the question

Dear All,

I advice you to read a bit on Dietrich Bonhoeffer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietrich_Bonhoeffer

The counterexample being, profound religious faith can also lead to not grappling with the world's problems, on the principle that God will provide the solutions. Not pretending to make any sort of scholarly argument here, I am merely stating something that I have observed, on more than just a few occasions.

This idea of Bonhoeffer's can probably be unpacked on several levels. For example, it seems to me that this idea captures aspects of a theme that appears in the bible; e.g., "God requires that people act justly and love mercy" (Micah 6:8); "true religion is to look after orphans and widows in their distress" (James 1:27 and elsewhere); "faith without works is useless" (James 2:14-26). Viewed in this light, engagement with the world's problems may not simply be the "path towards faith" but also the very expression of faith. Thus suggesting that Bonhoeffer's idea of genuine faith was that true spirituality is not to be equated with those forms of spirituality which are content to be inwardly focused.

Sem dúvida. A Igreja é definida como a "luz do mundo". Está ao serviço da Humanidade e não instalada na estratosfera.

Jose, obrigado por sua resposta.

Yes, I agree with Dietrich Bonhoeffer, who in my opinion was one of the most important Theologians of the 20th Century. Two books I would recommend are God Is On The Cross by Bonhoeffer and Bonhoeffer & King: Speaking Truth To Power by J. Deotis Roberts. It should also be noted that Bonhoeffer attended Abyssinian Baptist Church in Harlem when he was a student at Union Theological Seminary.

Dear Kirk,

I think that the issue should be put in a different way or, better, turned upside down.

“The ultimate and decisive question: with what reality we reckon in our life? With the reality of God’s revelatory word or with the so-called realities of life?” (Ethics, p. 49). That means we don’t have to make the mistake to presume that the World could know exactly itself, its possibilities, its faults, its real hopes. When Bonhoeffer -and the whole New Testament- says that the place of the christians is the world, he means that they have here a very uncomfortable task, i.e., testify the reality of Salvation here and not later, here and not afterworld, or against this world.

Thank you for your attention and happy 2018. Marcello Tobia

Totally disagree.

The question as worded assumes that the world's problems and issues that generate perplexity have an absolute existence in themselves.This misses the whole point of religious faith. Religious faith is not about looking at issues differently or believing obvious fallacies. Religious faith is going beyond what can be empirically known. If the world's issues were actualities in and of themselves then they, and their solutions, could be determined empirically without any need for faith at all. Thus the world's issues can never generate genuine religious faith. All the world's issues can generate is further drawing the active social participant away from any genuine faith.

To put this whole concept another way it would be better to note that without genuine Christian faith it is impossible to usefully engage the real problems of the world or to meaningfully debate the complexities that arise from worldly existence.

Bonheoffer's idea resonates with many Christian religions that changing the world's problems as an expression of faith can be a genuine indicator that one's faith is authentic, faith without good words (liberation) is "dead". Sociologists believe in the plurality of normative standards in society. His standard is only one of the many normative standards of different religions how one can best express their genuine faith.The hermits and contemplatives in the Catholic Church, for instance, believe that they serve God by silent prayer and contemplation inside the monastery. The story of Martha and Mary in the Gospel indicates that there are different modes of expressing one's genuine faith through social action or contemplation or a combination of both. Thanks for this insightful question.

Dear Kirk,

In my opinion all of our other friends already said everything on this issue.

I have only to put a question (and my answer to your question) about:

is it a strict matter of morality, spirituality, logic, strict religious dogma or maybe we have to think it in a pure ontological way?

The world we live in, complex or not, is a perfect made world by the Creator, as is our existence: Γέν. 1:27 "και εποιησεν ο θεος τον ανθρωπον κατ εικονα θεου εποιησεν αυτον αρσεν και θηλυ εποιησεν αυτους

(et creavit Deus hominem ad imaginem suam ad imaginem Dei creavit illum masculum et feminam creavit eos). So the engagement with the world's problems and perplexities for -most of which- we are responsible is something we have to face directly in our history, trying to make the long(?) road to eschata better for-among and with others, in a eucharistic way of being. After all, maybe this is (some)what Bonheoffer is trying to say about "genuine religious faith". Look also after father Florovsky's opinion on the same issue, i.e. facing our responsibility in its prophetic historical-eschatological perspective.

Thank you for your attention and the mind intriguing question. Vasilis