Dear Ronaldo,

Industrial heritage and industrial monuments of all kinds and at every location on earth today serve as an information carrier of technical conditions and developments. These developments include socio-economic conditions and the overall context in every society, in particular:

- Social conditions in the work environment.

- Geological and deposits-related conditions.

- Justice and legal conditions.

- Ecological and climatic developments.

- Medical and hygienic conditions.

- Artistic understanding.

- Religious and ideological conditions.

- Personal and individual events.

In Germany, the interest and the documentation of testimonies and monuments of technical developments in teaching and research is very advanced.

The major institutions that deal with this problem area, are visitors mines, industrial museums and museums of archaeology, ethnography and prehistory.

Best regrads,

Guenter

Dear Guenter,

thanks for your response and collaboration.

Best regards,

Ronaldo.

Dear Ronaldo,

As I mentioned in my ResearchGate page, I have an extensive collection of pictorial documents in the form of original photos and ancient picture postcards from all over the world on the subject of mining architecture, machinery, workshops, mills and factories, mines and sites for processing and refining, etc. See two examples of my papers attached.

If you need out of my collection anything (from Brasil?) on this issue, please tell me about it. I'll see what I can do for you.

Best regards,

Guenter

Dear Guenter,

I appreciate your attention and sending yours works with industrial heritage theme.

My work in Brazil refer to Company Towns and Railway Heritage.

If you know of any source references - books, articles, photos etc.

I also have stuff in my ReserchGate page, but largely is in Portuguese or Spanish.

I hope we can keep in touch and knowledge. Thank you.

Best Regards,

Ronaldo.

Dear Ronaldo,

please find enclosed a little collection of old photos related to railway heritage in Brazil. Maybe you can use some of them.

Best regards,

Guenter

Dear Guenter,

Thanks!

I send for you the book of 100th. Brazilian Railways (1854-1954). That the book be useful for you.

In time, I have a book published in Portuguese of Sao Paulo Railway, about Paranapiacaba what is in the World Heritage List of UNESCO for appreciation.

Regards,

Ronaldo.

Dear Ronaldo,

Industrial heritage is a particular kind of heritage. Unlike other types, industrial heritage is less concerned about tangible part - industrial buildings and industrial architecture. Many scholars consider it as a shell, a wrap around more important things - its intangible part - processes, techniques, technologies and people employed there. In this Guenter is right.

However, when it comes to the protection and preservation, most usually it is on the buildings itself, leaving the important part completely out . Just think about the adaptive reuse of former warehouses or docks around the world, especially since it became fashionable to own a refurbished loft. In many cases even the responsible institutions (like Monument Boards or conservation institutes), due to the lack of specific knowledge and basing their role on the previous experience with other types of heritage, allow this "preservation" and "adaptive reuse", unconsciously preserving the shell and discarding everything else.

I am from Serbia and here the industrial archaeology and protection of the industrial heritage is still at its initial stage and mostly are connected with mines and mining industry. There are very few cases from other industrial branches, although there are several catalogs listing the existing (often not functioning) industrial facilities.

If you are interested into the post-industrial landscapes, I can recommend you the book by Tim Edensor: Industrial Ruins: Space, Aesthetics & Materiality.

Best regards,

Srdjan

While the TICCIH definition is useful, it cannot be considered exhaustive. Should not 'industrial heritage' to refer to the whole of the industrial period, and all of the engendering social relationships; not only machines or buildings that were sites of economic activity?

Thus, the question of 'what is principal in the world' is a very difficult question. While one can describe specificities (acts, phenomenon, objects), nothing in any society stands outside a web of relationships.

Certainly, in regard to practices of the past ~300 years – and 'western' activity of 20th c. – one would have to include Auschwitz and Hiroshima as (horribly) definitional of the epoch, as well as the Ford River Rouge complex or the Autobahn.

Dear Ronaldo,

Many thanks for sending me the book Brazilian Railways (1854-1954). I can use it very well.

Best regards,

Guenter

Dear Ronaldo,

Interesting question. In the case of Switzerland I would say especially the case of the watch industry. La Chaux-de-Fonds and Le Locle, for example, were desognated, because of this feature, UNESCO World Heritage sites some years ago. The city plan and the architecture of both sites were radically influenced by the appearance and the surge of this industrial activity. The sociological influence was also, and still is, impacted by this issue.

Kind regards.

Rafael

Dear Ronaldo,

Interesting question. In the case of Switzerland I would say especially the case of the watch industry. La Chaux-de-Fonds and Le Locle, for example, were desognated, because of this feature, UNESCO World Heritage sites some years ago. The city plan and the architecture of both sites were radically influenced by the appearance and the surge of this industrial activity. The sociological influence was also, and still is, impacted by this issue.

Kind regards.

Rafael

Dear Rafael,

I appreciate your response and interest.

I stay happy to know about the cities of watches, it is the Switzerland examples I cite in my work as an industrial heritage.

If you know of any work and can be shared, thanks.

Regards,

Ronaldo.

 Dear Srdjan,

thank you for participating and for bibliographic statement.

You share the concern with relation to different aspects of industrial heritage, in particular the issues related to the intangible heritage and social relations.

Also I believe that buildings make up only part of the material of an heritage that is related to industry, infrastructure and other areas of interest.

I would ask you, if you can share some work about industrial heritage and I thank in advance.

Best Regards,

Ronaldo.

Dear Kevin,

I appreciate your cooperation with relevant questions about the industrial heritage.

As well as other areas or fields of research, I believe the concept is still under construction, as well as the recognition of industrial heritage elements.

Regarding the importance, the word "principal" in question refers to assets previously recognized formally. I mention the example of Brazil which also possesses innumerable cases, but only one is on the list of the federal agency of cultural heritage (IPHAN): the Real Fábrica de ferro de Iperó (first Brazilian iron plant), in  Iperó/São Paulo.

I hope that our discussion can collaborate not only with the development of the concept, but also with the valorization of the multiple examples of industrial heritage.

In time, we are seeking value a Ford Complex installed in Northern Brazil (Belterra/Pará), little-known ou unknown nationally and internationally. If interest do a search for "Fordlandia - Brazil".

I send link of documentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2SpGRuwqA4

Regards,

Ronaldo.

Dear Ronaldo,

Although La Chaux-de-Fonds' watchmaking industry is still active and quite successful, it's town planning and some abandoned workshops could be considered as being specifically industrial heritage. Here and there in Switzerland you find abandoned factories or for example also railway (depots, vehicles, etc.) or hydroelecztical infrastructures (hydroelectric power plants). Some buildings formerly industrial have been transformed in museums, flats and lofts, shopping centres, etc.

It's quite difficult to identify a really outstanding and specific feature in this area in Switzerland.

Kind regards.

Rafael

Dear Ronaldo,

Yes, I concur with you that the concept of 'industrial heritage' is 'under construction' - and probably will remain so for some time. Within the discipline of industrial archaeology, a great deal of attention among USA practitioners is focused on 'nuts and bolts' but only glosses social relationships or overarching theory. (With notable exceptions, of course.)

Thanks also for the citation re: Fordlandia. I am familiar with Fordlandia, via Greg Grandin's anglophone history, which you may know. If not, I suggest it to you. I do not know if it has been translated.

Grandin, G. 2009. Fordlandia : the rise and fall of Henry Ford's forgotten jungle city. New York, Metropolitan Books.

best regards,

Kevin

Dear Kevin,

thank you again your attention to the topic.

And also by the book stated. I hope to find it in any bookstore in Brazil.

We will continue our exchange of ideas about industrial heritage.

Best regards,

Ronaldo.

Dear Ronaldo,

regarding the written sources dealing with industrial heritage, I would like to recommend you to check the website of English Heritage (http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/) and their bookshop. As England was first to start with the industrialization, it was also one of the first to experience de-industrialization and post-industrialization. I know that in 2012 Council for British Archaeology published a book "Industrial Archaeology (CBA Practical Handbook)" which is quite ok.

One of the first books (at least that I know of) dealing with the topic of industrial heritage (with a strong emphasis on built heritage, its conservation and revitalization) was 1995 Judith Alfrey and Tim Putnam's "The Industrial Heritage: Managing Resources and Uses". More recent books dealing with a specific part of industrial heritage (waterfronts) is the edition of Richard Marshall "Waterfronts in Post-Industrial Cities" from 2001.

One of the best options to access some sources is through google scholar if you have an access through some university.

I hope that you will be lucky in finding the necessary material.

Best,

Srdjan

Dear Srdjan,

I appreciate your statements and I can some of them.

I mentioned the work because I think in heritage in your country. I have little knowledge about industrial heritage of the Eastern European countries.

Thanks for your participation in the Forum.

Regards,

Ronaldo.

Dear Rolando,

Without doubt the principal industrial complex in Venezuela is Ciudad Guyana. I will upload an article published by Docomomo Brazil that I prepared.

Yours,

Carlos

Dear Carlos,

I appreciate your contribution and sharing of work about Ciudad Guyana in Venezuela.

Certainly, the work will contribute to aggregate knowledge about the Latin American industrial heritage.

Regards,

Ronaldo.

The oldest ones are the mines. Both coppwer, silver and iron.

For all trades there are the fishing industries and the timeber logging and sawmills.

Later, teh aluminium smelters and other metal products that need much electruicity to produce.

Thwere are, however, a great variety of industrialheritage  products in our many museums.

Thor Flognfeldt

Dear Thor,

thank you for your contribution and for sharing some ideas abut national industrial heritage of Sweden.

Could you contribute with material: book, paper, websites etc?

Regards,

Ronaldo.

My answer is that TICCIH publishes reports every three years on the state of industrial heritage in each country where there is a TICCIH section. Some of these are on the TICCIH website (for 2015 and I think 2013) and for others you can always ask TICCIH how to obtain copies.

These report will go a very long way to answering your query Ronaldo.

Regards

Iain Stuart

TICCIH Board member

Dear Iain Stuart,

I appreciate their contribution and ask you to send me some reports of TICCIH Triennial Meetings, please. I am a member of TICCIH-Brazil and contributes to the Report 2006 (along with Prof. Dra. Cristina Meneguello) and the Report 2015, about Brazil.

The reason of the question here, it's would be placed in instigating other researchers who are not entered into the world's industrial heritage to identify exemplary in their regions / countries.

Thanks for your answer.

Regards,

Ronaldo.

Dear Ronaldo,

when I consider the topic "Industrial heritage" I refer to 18th and 1th9 centuries when the Industrial Revolution occured, but in an extensive meaning of the term you should compare "industrial heritage" with "raw material processing", so that, as Thor Flognfeldt wrote, the oldest were copper, iron silver mines. A crucial theme is the relationship between industrial buildings or sites and the territory infrastrucural networks. The most updated list of the principal Industrial heritage are the World Heritage reports published by TICCICH, which is the most authoritative source of informations. In the attached file you can find the paper that with other co-authors I presented to TICCICH Congress XIV in  Lille (September 2015) : the Panzano District in Monfalcone was the workers' city realized by the Cosulich shipbuilding company. Another interesting example of Industrial heritage in Friuli Venezia Giulia (North east of Italy) is Torviscosa, founded in 1938 by Snia a chemical industry, yet operative. Friuli Venezia Giulia shares with Slovenia and Croatia a transboundary Industrial Heritage due to the fact that the territories were under the rule of Absburg Empire.

Regards

Diana

Dear Ronaldo,

it's quite reductive to answer with a single specific site. for example I live in Torino and there are many industrial heritage form FIAT and other factories from the automotive sector now dismissed. Many have been converted to toher functions i.e. you can search LINGOTTO in TORINO - http://www.rpbw.com/project/62/lingotto-factory-conversion/.

Interesting is the FILATORIO ROSSO IN CARAGLIO. the oldest silk factory in Europe, now a museum - http://www.marcovaldo.it/pagine/ita/luogo.lasso?id=4E98738B079841AF48TmQt9DBCEE

Regards, Michela 

Dear Michela Rota,

first, I appreciate your contributions, especially web pages.

I know the Lingotto but not of textile manufacture.

I know the challenge of the question and the reductionism of answers.

But they are only one target and the perception of individuals, without meaning to reality itself.

Regards,

Ronaldo.

Dear Georgia,

Thank you for sharing part of your job.

The history of Greek mining industry is part of the great industrial history of the world and so we can create a timeline that defines thousands of years.

I thank also the sending of links related to it, because then you have an overview of social and economic relations.

This is always a sharing experiences channel.

Best Regards,

Ronaldo.

Dear Ronaldo,

selecting one is hard, and not just because there are a handful of options but during the 20th century the teritory of Hungary was cut to 1/3 and many industrial heritage elements are now abroad.

So, within the existing borders of Hungary, I would vonte perhaps on metallurgy and iron craft, or on a bit broader scale metallurgy and machinery. If we look at the historical perspective, I would mention mining, of which herigate places can be found mostly  in Slovakia and Romania and only some in the today's Hungary.

The situation is the same with the line of the textile and leather industry branches.

Best regards,

Ferenc

Dear Ferenc

I appreciate your contribution and brief explanation about the history of Hungarian industrial heritage.

I recognize the difficulty in choosing one, even if it is an especific industrial field.

But the idea is to get as only a personal and particular opinion and not  determine the degree of importance of the heritage element.

Thank you for your contribution and I hope to know something more on the Industrial Heritage in Hungary.

Best regards,

Ronaldo André Rodrigues

Dear Ronaldo,

I find this interactive UNESCO World Heritage map very interesting for researching industrial heritage sites. If you search for 'industrial' and choose 'cultural', as a result you will get what could probably be considered as principal industrial heritage sites in the world (though not all results are industrial heritage!): http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/?search=industrial&searchSites=&search_by_country=®ion=&search_yearinscribed=&themes=&criteria_restrication=&media=&order=country&description=&type=cultural

Speaking about Serbia, this is one of the most important industrial heritage sites in the country: http://senjskirudnik.biz/index.html

Kind regards,

Jasna Cizler

thanks for the link Jasna.

Of course, UNESCO World Heritage is dependent upon the various national governmental bodies that nominate sites. The dearth of listed sites in North America is telling.

As Kevin noted the World Heritage list is very politically driven - apart from the heritage politics where industrial heritage is often dismissed or poorly treated (e.g. sites "conserved" by removing the machinery and reusing the buildings), there is also the UN politics (e.g Taiwan which has some industrial sites isn't a UN member) as well as internal national level politics.

In my view - as a TICCIH member we aim to encourage the identification and protection of industrial heritage, there is far too much attention placed on the Word Heritage listed items and not enough on sites of importance at the State and Local level,

Dear Jasna, Kevin and Ian

I am grateful for the contribution and I would just like to add that the question seeks to identify elements of industrial heritage that have only local recognition and are not disclosed internationally.

Or even, those elements that do not have local or national recognition, but that contribute to the cultural heritage.

This fact is complemented by Kevin and Ian who present the concern to value, preserve and conserve different material and immaterial elements of the industrial culture and that have relevance as cultural heritage.

As a member of TICCIH-Brazil, I believe that the issue allows us to know better the position of people and the identification of local industrial heritage that we do not know.

Thank you and have some interesting new contributions.

Perhaps we can develop a world map of industrial heritage, independent and complementary to UNESCO.

Best regards,

Ronaldo.