In many countries, once an employee become selected in Government Service, treated as 'permanent' until his/ her retirement or death.
Practically, the employee do not face any type of efficiency testing for whole of the service life.
Even, practically they get automatic promotion to the higher posts.
So, it is not required to work sincerely or with any responsibility and to learn anything new in 30-35 years of service life.
Do you support it?
Why?
Why not?
There should be an annual evaluation of the employee's performance and accordingly be punished or rewarded.
The principle of reward and punishment must be applied to every employee and in any workplace.
A good employee should be rewarded and promoted faster than a lazy employee.
If the employee's behavior in his work is routine and without any creativity the results will be negative on the work and the recipient of the service.
Shibabrata Pattanayak
In some countries , mostly in developing countries , permanent govt. jobs means safe and secured place. S/he is free from all difficulties in some ways and involved with the political activities to keep away from the works. Up to the retirement none will terminate him/her. S/he doesn't need any training in the long life. In the time of retirement , s/he will get huge money and pension , insurance, medical allowances, festival bonus in the rest of the life ,etc.
I think this should be stopped! Their work should be challenging as like private organizations for the sake of the countries development and ensuring better services for the people of the country, who are paying taxes for the salary of the govt. people.
What a great question! It's high time this practice should be reviewed. There should be a paradigm shift from old way to a modern way for the sake of creativity, innovation, productivity, effectiveness, efficiency, and thoroughness. Now that there are army of young unemployed and under-employed brilliant brains across the globe in all sectors of human life.
That is true in some sectors but in others it is not. Though appointment is permanent but employees face new challenge at each new role/stage.
Shibabrata Pattanayak D. Mishra
Oyedemi S. Oyekola Segun Michael AbegundeDirtiness are coming through the govt employee who are very inclined and loyal to the govt party to skip their responsibilities, doing anarchy, earning ill money and exercise their power . But I think not all the govt employees are same. There are few exceptions as well.
Thanks
You mean permanent civil service, I guess. The maintenance of any state on the surface of this earth is build on such a professional caste of administrators. Selection procedures are based on loyality, legal and political attitudes to assure bureaucratic stability; in return, a life without greater economic fluctuations is guaranteed, which attracts a certain personality type to apply (if a post would be advertised by application). As a friend of a small state and open markets, I am not in favor of permanent civil service, i.e. democratic market systems need dynamic efficiency in personnel management. In my philosophy of public life, the freedom begins, where the state ends, in economic and human terms.
In the Iraqi Employment Law or act, the employee remains under probation for one year until he proves that He or she are seriousness and desire the job.
'Hire and fire' rule must be implemented in goverment sector, and it must be equipped with transparent process of hiring and firing employees. The old system of hiring and retaining employees for 25-30 years,, most of the time, only adds to laziness, and insincere attitude towards work.
Government services initially offer us security of job which initially attach us for the permanency but those who have an attraction other than routine type of system & may not be satisfied & as such he would prefer to go for private employment when efficiently counts not a criteria of seniority may play a part .
This is my personal opinion
This is sort of legal slaveness, that is never build a free country. conspiracy is the main feature of this system. I also agree with Stephen I. Ternyik
Thank you, Dr. Artur Braun for describing the situation of Germany.
In India (and perhaps in most of the developing countries), the situation is different.
In India, from one Group D staff to the Administrative Service officer, all are recruited in Govt. service as "Permanent" and may continue in service without doing ANY WORK during the entire service life of 25-35 years!
There is practically no fixing of responsibility, no scientific evaluation of quality of works performed even for the promotions!
India is still a developing country due to some reasons. Widespread corruption in each and every sector at each and every level, appointment in service depending on many other factors (caste of applicant, political or other connections, financial corruptions etc. are included) and not ONLY on quality and qualification are the two main pillars for such backwardness.
It is my personal analysis.
Thanks
Permanent employees, regular employees or the directly employed, work for an employer and are paid directly by that employer. Permanent (regular) employees do not have a predetermined end date to employment. In addition to their wages, they often receive benefits like subsidized health care, paid vacations, holidays, sick time, or contributions to a retirement plan. Permanent employees are often eligible to switch job positions within their companies. Even when employment is "at will", permanent employees of large companies are generally protected from abrupt job termination by severance policies, like advance notice in case of layoffs, or formal discipline procedures. They may be eligible to join a union, and may enjoy both social and financial benefits of their employmen . Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Dear Shibabrata Pattanayak
You are right, Work / without work for life
This is what happens in developing countries: there is no system for monitoring work or quality of work
There should be an annual evaluation of the employee's performance and accordingly be punished or rewarded.
The principle of reward and punishment must be applied to every employee and in any workplace.
A good employee should be rewarded and promoted faster than a lazy employee.
If the employee's behavior in his work is routine and without any creativity the results will be negative on the work and the recipient of the service.
Yes Dr. Rama. There should be an annual evaluation of the employee's performance and accordingly be punished or rewarded.
Principle of reward and punishment must be applied to all Employees.
Performance evolution is necessary.
As a permanent job responsible for lethargic action.
As you know you are permanent
moment you become less responsible.
A good employee should be rewarded and promoted faster than a lazy employee. Agree with auther.
Not supporting,
Lost of creativity as no job rotation.
Understanding of service domain is less.
No motivation.
Why do you find creativity and new ideas in the cadres working in non-governmental companies, while not found in government institutions, the reason known to all, is the application of reward and punishment.
A very good question asked and very impressive. Great views from our RG Colleagues. They are really enlightening
As mentioned above , the best solution is the annual evaluation . permanent job without evaluation cause more laziness and corruption.
Interesting thread.
Yes I agree that government employees should be evaluated/appraised annually and rewarded/sanctioned accordingly.
This is a crucial topic. The replies are interesting.
In short , my reply is that I believe permanentship is subjectivein this case.
In Greece, there is this idea indeed and it is quite widespread. However, the law clearly describes caess where civil servants might face challenges concerning their job.
I can assure you that many employees of the public sector feel not so sure around job security, especially now, due to the crisis.
I am wondering if in other countries employees of the public sector feel the same.
Here's a funny story of a civil servant abusing his position:
- https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/12/long-lunch-spanish-civil-servant-skips-work-for-years-without-anyone-noticing
On the other hand, he apparently put his dereliction of duty to good use by studying philosophy and becoming an expert on Spinoza, thereby contributing to civilization and culture. 😍
The best solution is making annual evaluation and the result of this evaluation linked to the salary
System of having annual review of performance and linking performance to some part of salary may work better. It may help in motivating employees to deliver better performance.
It's really a very interesting question. In my opinion too, there must be an annual evaluation of the permanent government employees. This practice will definitely improve the efficiency of the employees and customer satisfaction.
Dear RG Colleagues,
There is one annual evaluation system of Govt. Officials in India, but practically it has NO VALUE.
It requires some online examination and marking for actual evaluation of efficiency. I think no other system will work in such a corrupted system.
It depends on country. In some countries, permanent jobs are also evaluated occasianally by means of written and viva examination. Those who pass, get promotion to higher post.
The principle of reward and punishment must be applied to every employee and in any workplace. Agree with auther.
Unfortunately, in Government sector, performance of employees are not taken care of, so, people i India like to join Government sector. That is why productivity of Govt. sector is continuously going down.
In addition to above great points, civil service job requires virtually low skill to carry out the job functions, hence there is this lackadaisical attitude towards the job, uniquely in the developing countries. Even annual appraisal exercise is somewhat a sham, thus corrupt practices is inevitable.Rather than the system to support and encourage creative and innovative ideas; the entire system is dominated by mediocre. This is a sad situation!
What I feel is if any person is sincere candidate he works honestly.
"Permanent" Government service is an assurance.
Problem start with other category the third category they do not work and spoil others those who work.
There will be annual evaluations, CRs etc. Promote those who work sincerely. In case of automatic promotions train those candidates who can manage otherwise just increase the salary as they put up long service not designation that too for those who work regularly not others.
Thank you for this good question. Yes, they are considered permanent in a number of countries, however, we do have three points; firstly, usually the salaries are so low compared with private sector, secondly, the active person indeed try to upgrade himself and mostly respected and goes up, thirdly, they do an evaluation report for each employee, however, it seems not so seriously. It's good to have a room for punishment and rewarding system. I totally agree with most of the above replies.
In permanent" Government service People feel a secureness life time while in private sector depend on your work ability
Regards
Krishna
Individual commitment to a group effort: That is what makes a team work, a company work, a society work, a civilization work. Teamwork is the ability to work together toward a common vision, the ability to direct individual accomplishments toward organizational objectives. It is the fuel that allows common people to attain uncommon results."
In india people are preferring Government jobs, because they know no one can out them, thats why the Government sectors are worst in india. There should be an annual evaluation of the employee's performance and accordingly be punished or rewarded.
The state service requires personnel to have completely different "virtues" than people working in a private company (however, the biggest companies are like state bodies by these meaninglessness: I don’t remember who said, but the department, which has more than 200 people, does not need of external stimuli...).
Actually: the position of a minister or a major official is determined primarily by finances, which he manages. Therefore, he willingly or unwittingly increases staff to justify the need for increased funding. The activity of this staff is not measured in any reasonable units (even if the profit ...). As a result, without having any positive tasks, officials compete in “innovations” (For example, in Russia, which has a historically quite adequate education system, the “curriculum” changes several times a year, resulting in teachers in a stun. Pupils, during the course of their training, experience a multiple change of goals, tasks, and forms of education, leaving the school with little or no positive knowledge: as one professor wrote: Russia sets a global experiment: it gives higher education to people who do not even received an middle one).
Moreover, the official is not an expert in any profession. He doesn’t care what to command: a railway station or a brothel. His work is evaluated by the degree of his "visibility", and not by real success. Under these conditions, it is impossible to evaluate (or test) him...
There is a Russian joke: Plumber was arrested... Why? He checked water tubes and said that whole system is rotten, it is necessary to change everything...
In India, the administrative services are open to graduates of any discipline.
Like all other government services, 50% of these posts are filled by caste quota.
All administrators are government employees and given supreme power to rule over any department as per his posting.
They are the actual policy makers.
So, it is very common to see that some graduate with History or Economics is the "head" of the department of Health, or department of coal mines or department of Agriculture ..... It is argued by the criticizers that some "always yes" technocrats are given the responsibility to follow and implement the policy taken by the administrators.
So, you can imagine, what may happen!
(I am not adding any comment about corruptions - which is widespread).
I am always amazed by politicians who manage a sphere about which they do not even have minimal knowledge. But maybe this is the arrogance of the researcher from my side? Although I would be very strange if I began to write an article about the art of ancient Egypt, for example. But this has already been said, and for a very long time. "Everyone reflect himself strategist, seeing the battle from sideways" (Shota Rustaveli).
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