Hi

Check PDF attached,  I hope helping  you.

Good luck

thank you, along with several new papers out there I'm starting to believe molecular mimicry may be involved in ME/CFS, it seems to be the only thing out there that might really explain how so many with supposed different causes might end up in the same boat.

Dear Jeanie,

I am afraid that there is precious little evidence for molecular mimicry causing anything much. The evidence for autoimmune disease being due to molecular mimicry is pretty close to zero. Moreover, one would not expect a host serine protease to cross react with  a microbial serine protease. The similar function is probably irrelevant. 

It is probably about time molecular mimicry was assigned to the trash bin. It was originally proposed for rheumatic fever, which is not an autoimmune disease as far as we know. Nobody ever found evidence for that. It has been invoked in Guillain Barre syndrome but I am doubtful it really occurs.

Molecular mimicry would not explain why lots of different organisms cause one disease - each mimicry should cause a different disease. There are various ways of explaining the common pathway of ME/CFS but this does not sound like a good one to me.

if one of the causes or the causes of ME/CFS is chemical exposure, than how autoimmunity may accure leaves the possibility of molecular mimicry open if there is any truth to it, or weither it depends strictly on immune malfunction, loss of homeostasis, than what would fallow would be seceptability to infection, just because viruses are often found does not mean they are the cause.  I know for a fact that severe exposure in a high moisture water damaged building can lead to ME/CFS, I know that I'm highly sensitive to certain chemicals and voc's along with allergens. if molecular mimicry can happen this type of exposure would be a very likely contender, just keeping a open mind and asking questions, but ya, I would think you could see my interest in the subject, I understand your view.

There is an old saying, Jeanie, keep an open mind but not so open that your brain falls out. Science is not just a jumble of words picked up on the internet strung together however you like. By all means blame gremlins, but it is best not to dress them in scientific clothes. 

Jonathan, just because I look into something does not mean I falling for it hook line and sinker, give me some credit as a researcher, please!  don't put me in that box with so many others either because I pride myself for not being so closed minded I cant see the forest threw the trees, I know how not considering something can make you totally miss the boat, I've seen many in the mold/mycotoxin world do that , I'm not stupied.

I don't mean to imply that you are stupid Jeanie. But if you think about it being open minded is really of use in the context of new and unfamiliar ideas. The molecular mimicry idea is the oldest and stalest idea in immunology. It is the old ram sheep that all the other sheep follow without thinking. Nobody ever found any reason to think it makes sense or any evidence that it actually occurs. I was taught it at college in 1971 as a speculative idea. Over the decades it became an article of faith - but only because immunologists' minds were closed to anything more sensible. 

I applaud your desire to research but don't start with worn out running shoes. Get a new pair - open up to NEW ideas!

Jonathan, really it's ok, I've been researching for 9+ years, my hopes and dreams are in no way centered around molecular mimicry, I do however check up on it off and on and if I want to put a question out there relating to autoimmunity and ME/CFS than I think I can, you never know, truly I understand where you are coming from, let it go, I've already got my sights focused elsewhere, sorry my question upset you, I told you I look at everything involved, it was a question and a thought of possablity, who knows , I realized you have your mind made up, however , I've just spent many years doing my own research without following any "experts" involved in water damaged building exposures, yet being in a support group where so many blindly followed the "it's all about "mycotoxins" , I've actually tought them a few things by backing up my mouth with research, however some being to closed minded cause me to leave that group, mainly cause they were so steadfast in their belief they didn't really look at everything involved like they claim, now it's likely to bite them in the butt.  I understand your position on molecular mimicry, heard it loud and clear, you may be right but you never know, you may get proved wrong at some point too.  I know , you don't think so, and that's ok, just like its ok if I still keep a open mind to molecular mimicry.

ps, pretty sure I've found what I was looking for and it doesn't involve molecular mimicry, just so you know

I don't ever have my mind made up Jeanie! I am always ready to be proved wrong. And I hardly ever get upset.

I have a confession to make. I make these comments chiefly to bait my 'expert' colleagues who believe in molecular mimicry and waste years on the subject. Maybe one day they will show me wrong. But I suspect not. I personally suspect that a small proportion of people with ME/CFS have unrecognised autoimmune disease. My friends in Norway may prove it is more than that. But whether it has anything to do with mimicry I suspect we will never know for sure but can be pretty sure not. The great majority of autoimmune disease has nothing to do with mimicry as far as we know.

personally I also have my doubts about autoimmunity involved in all cases of ME/CFS too. hey we agree on something :)  could it be that in regards to chemical exposures causing ME/CFS that it brings out hidden viruses in the body and keeps aggervating them into re-activation and the immune system switches from being over active to suppressed by virus than back to over active?  like for example chemical exposures that lead to sensitivities/MCS where so much in the modern world that you really cant avoid completely keeps your immune system in a pretty constant over active state or and/or with autoimmunity we just become very seceptable to infectious agents and treatment for viruses may be of little value until the unlieing cause is dealt with? like maybe both triggers and virus just keep the condition aggervated ?  for many years after the WDB exposure I never had or reconized when I got a cold of flu, later in years (around 10 years later to be specific, when my reactions to my triggers had mellowed out a little ) I think I reconized a cold or flu but it didn't play out the way it use to prior to WDB exposure, but what would happen is that my sensitivities would become more extreme like they were right after the WDB exposure and for many many years, but it seemed I would quickly get over the cold of flu as they would seem to disappear within a day or 2, it leads to to believe that viruses could possably keep the MCS or non-allergic hypersensitivity and even the allergic hypersensitivities in a more chronic state.

hum, Jonathan Edwards, I think the smoking gun have been found, check out microbiome and autophagy and autoimminity, :)  (look under fungal infections in PR.