Durkheim's fatalistic suicide has been examined from the psychology perspective. In a paper by Lester (2014) examining OPPRESSION and SUICIDE, degree of social regulation has been discussed from the perspective of "degree to which the emotions, desires, and behaviour of people are governed by the norms and customs of the society [and laws]".
Some examples examined include:
Previously, I brought up some discussion of potential "ECONOMIC-DRIVEN" SUICIDE given our current economic system which dictates most part of our behaviour and thoughts, from going to schools, universities, work, family matters, lifestyles, having a family, etc. Those who can't make into the system reasonably well may feel marginalised, discriminated, alienated, frustrated, extreme stress, extreme depression, etc., and there are hardly much alternative for them instead of try to work harder to fit in?
Durkheim’s tenet of chaos is not referring to daily stress which is naturally increasing with urbanisation, congestion, competition, globalisation, etc. He was referring to the way people have to adjust to their work and lifestyle due to division of labour created by industrial revolution. Families also become chaotic due to the role and hours the labour works as compared to agricultural age. Durkheim was not focusing on materialistic gains or advancement of technology in manufacturing, but more on the well-being of the individuals and society. We are now about 40 years into our current revolution of information age, digitalisation, and with it, electronics, communications, globalisation, and the huge growth of financial capital markets. A lot of suicide factors are related to modern lifestyle pressure. Although we are not saying that economic development and technology advancement is not good for civilisation, but from Durkheim’s context, wouldn’t these have more element of economic stifling and fatalistic (for some) and chaos (anomic) for the general middle-class (especially seen in the long-term process of which the building blocks were originally built for). The word “Anomic” was not meant to describe short-term chaos like increase of suicide after certain epidemic (e.g. SARS, Aedes, Zika), stock market crash, etc., unless they bring in long-term changes and decay in a society or community. Durkheim described stock market crash phenomenon by referring to the Paris bourses’ crashes during 1800s, and after a while the society suicide rate stabilise back. His model is meant to explain longer-term analysis and fundamental changes in societies (what he termed as a functioning society) and certain phenomenon in the society he has observed during his time.
Any thoughts or comments are much appreciated.
i think all (or most) suicides have sense of fatalism in itself
In my humble view: irrespective of the reasons and degree of hopelessness - in most cases suicide is a spontaneous action
well, research shows, that it's not always so. there is such thing as impulsive suicide, but even then there is a long presuicidal period, unconscious, but when you analyse it, it shows that it's been there for a long time. and there are carefully planned and thought-through suicides
OK, I cannot disagree. But your argument is not consistent with the fatalism of suicide.
why? a person can feel fatalistic suddenly - like there is no choice, no way out of the situation other than that. or he may feel fatalistic, but accept it, until something comes out that acts like a last drop - and "i can't take it anymore"
Dear Ksenia:
Fatalistic is defined as: "acceptance of all things and events as inevitable OR " the adjective fatalistic to describe someone who believes outcomes are determined in advance and can't be changed"
In other words: Fatalist believes that some event is inevitable . This means that a person hardly can become fatailstic suddenly - the fatalism is ingrained, and the person lives with it (it may be long time) - until he gets "the proverbial last drop".
I have to confess that all the above is based on my own experience. And every time when I face a new bad adventure - I have to convince myself that - this adventure - is not the last drop YET.
well, i agree with you, but still that's the question of state and trait in psychology. everything - hope, nostalgia, anxiety, even fatalism - can be a trait (that you've described) and a state. impulsive suicides often have the sudden growth of hopelessness, psychological pain, fatalism. one may be prone to fatalism, or psychache, but it's like a pain that you live with and that even sometimes may leave you. and some event may provoke acute pain, or fatalism etc. acute state
in our dispute - the main problem is - terminology. Namely - your interpretation of the term fatalism includes much more aspects which is quite natural as you are a psychologist; whereas my specialty is the structure of polymers. Besides - I write science fiction and as the writer I know when I need to put the end.
Of course we can ask prof. Sergei Enikolopov to be a judge over our dispute. But I see no reason to bother him.
With every good Wish to you.
Leonid
P.S. As a famous (in the narrow circle of friends) writer - I would like to note that the start of your message sounds much better than the rest of it.
Well, Ksenia,
I have to carefully consider now whether - your upvote - was the "last drop" I have been waiting for.