You are right to state that, under the current economic conditions, money is access to energy, i.e. your mind game, Lucio, requires a different monetary system, where the money supply is tied to a clean energy index or the like. Coasian bargaining could be a helpful tool to develop such an economic thought model. Economic systems evolution does not happen from alone, it requires creative thinkers like you, who anticpate alternative pathways for the eco-logical working of future markets. Concerning horses, our last working horse (‘Rudolph’) for farm work died in 2012, but I never went to school by horse, only by a little donkey (‘Francis‘).

https://www.sociostudies.org/almanac/articles/world_system_energetics/

https://ideas.repec.org/p/pra/mprapa/44850.html

Conference Paper Money To Capital?

Book Global Wave Energetics/World System Thermodynamics

If you have no costs whatsoever, you have no production whatsoever, I would say.

Thermodynamics says, rock solid proven, that nothing can be done without energy involved. And energy is the 100% core or any production factor.

So, you can basically put everything back on energy involved.

In the other way round, a production with no cust therefore can only be realized with no input at all, since any input is only possible by some energy in on form or another.

Ok, if you find someone delivering you the input factors without any bill for it ... You have a thermodynamical open system with external (unpriced) input.

Then you can have a production of zero.

The price of those goods is then calculated simply by the sum of all products compared to the sum of all available money.

If you have a model with only one good - you have your price.

Dear Olaf, thank you for your comment.

It tells me you have thought about this carefully which I appreciate.

Framing this throught perfect market competition theory, short term and long term, helps us to see how full cost externalization leads to over all system collapse....

There are no production costs as any social, economic or environmental inputs needed is free of cost.....what drives markets is profits and if the nature of profit making changes the whole thing in terms of perfect competition changes....

Profit = Revenue - costs

if there are no costs, then profit = revenue...,

And if you use this formula to rearranged accepted traditional short term and long term market competition theory it leads to very interesting results as new firms flood the market seeking some of those profits by undercutting pricing to the point profits are zero....over using in the process social, economic, and environmental assets until inputs can no longer be used again and the system collapses.....You can also look at this from the demand/consumers point of view....ending with fully unsustainable over consumption.....

Notice that the only way in the end profit is zero is because the production price must be zero, we are producing free goods....free production, to over production...., free consumption to over consumption.....until system collapses.

In the traditional market, the existent of economic costs gives meaning to perfect market competition theory....in the case of green markets, the existence of green costs gives meaning to perfect green market competition theory.

Thank you for y our comment

Let me entertain your query, with some images. A sufficient answer was already given by Olaf Schilgen

Good day Stephen, you should know that I went to school by horse, a very tricky black horse....

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The question is about how production price is determined when under full cost externalization and about how this price would affect perfect competition theory, short term and long-term.

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Olaf’s answer was based on “If you have no costs whatsoever, you have no production whatsoever, I would say”, this is only true at the end of the perfect market competition process,,,money drives markets, not energy....

Since profits are at the heart of market competition dynamics, I provided a summary of how the questions can be answered....

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The information you shared has no meaning under full cost externalization if you read again the information you shared and think carefully....

If you have a view that makes Olaf comments “a sufficient answer” please share it here...

I do not take things personal and I do not look down on anybody, academically or otherwise...

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Remember, Curiosity often leads to the growth of knowledge and asking “what if question” is a valid scientific way of creating good food for thoughts....

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Respectfully yours;

Lucio

You are right to state that, under the current economic conditions, money is access to energy, i.e. your mind game, Lucio, requires a different monetary system, where the money supply is tied to a clean energy index or the like. Coasian bargaining could be a helpful tool to develop such an economic thought model. Economic systems evolution does not happen from alone, it requires creative thinkers like you, who anticpate alternative pathways for the eco-logical working of future markets. Concerning horses, our last working horse (‘Rudolph’) for farm work died in 2012, but I never went to school by horse, only by a little donkey (‘Francis‘).

https://www.sociostudies.org/almanac/articles/world_system_energetics/

https://ideas.repec.org/p/pra/mprapa/44850.html

Conference Paper Money To Capital?

Book Global Wave Energetics/World System Thermodynamics

Dear Stephen, I appreciate your comment even if it is not related to the question at hand here.

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If you have noticed, I have on purpose broken the sustainability/sustainability market issue/theory in small, but directly or indirectly connected social, economic, and environmental pieces, and I am constantly adding new links or expanding previous links...this allows me to share ideas with different, but connected schools of thoughts in a non-controversial, but logical environment.

I am glad to see you futuristic view is consistent with my view...

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Linking profits to clean energy based markets is the way to go in market evolution towards true sustainability markets as true sustainability markets are clean markets...

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The ideas that are key to move to a clean economy and that need to be linked to transition to, to shift to, and to sustain the clean market long term and which I have addressed in key publications are:

a) Money is the driver of markets;

b) There are no markets without energy

c) The current market is a non-renewable energy based dominant market

d) The setting up of clean markets creates a renewable energy technology gap, and for those who are not ready to close this gap this may mean economy blackouts.

e) Making pollution reduction and access to renewable energy profitable is the way to go scientifically.

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It is my intention to keep expanding these ideas in simple ways so they are easy to follow; and perhaps be used as food for thoughts for the development of ideas that help shape a more sustainable future.

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I will leave it here, so others can focused on the question at hand if they would like to share their thoughts.

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Have a nice day;

Respectfully yours;

Lucio

Long ago Lionel Robbins, The Nature and Significance of Economic Science (1935²) gave his famous definition of economics as “the science which studies human behaviour as a relationship between ends and scarce means which have alternative uses” (p. 16). If there were no costs whatsoever this would imply that all inputs ought to be free goods. In that case would be even meaningless to speak about the existence of an "economic problem"

Dear Andrea, Thank you for your comment.

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The idea of no cost can be used to highlight how markets can be priced to lead them in the end to their collapse under perfect market competition and traditional economic thought as it is, affecting everything including Robbins’s definition as you said.

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Costs are what limits bad human behavior such as over consumption and over production, without them there are no limits on rational decision makers and on unsustainable behavior.

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In the other side of the coin, if you have full costing, social, economic, and environmental costs are not externalized, then you have limits that rational decision makers will use in order to display a more sustainable market behavior.

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It can be said that partial costing is behind why Adam Smith’s perfect market model is linked to current social and environmental externalities and to the move in 2012 Rio +20 towards green market/green economy thinking ....

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These aspects are highlighted analytically and graphically in my coming paper at beginning of 2020 “The road towards sustainability markets: Linking cost externalization to market structure and price structure using qualitative comparative means” and described in my current RG project.

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I will share the paper as soon as done and as soon as published to be used as food for thoughts.

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Have a nice day

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Respectfully yours

Lucio