Hi Andrew, 

I wouldn't necessarily say this is an out there idea, and not an unusual request given today's understanding on motivation. Motivation is generally the product of a few things, firstly personality, secondly potential reward, and finally and I think most importantly a performance/motivating climate. The latter is what will get your students into the idea of working for intrinsic reasons. 

I would suggest reading around Deci and Ryan's Self Determination Theory, with a view to looking for ways to increase Autonomy, Competence, and Relatedness within your classroom. Mallet gives a nice overview of some tools you can use to increase self-determined motivation in his paper (I have attached here). 

A very good book to read on this basic idea is Drive by Dan Pink, It is aimed towards business but can easily be applied to education. 

With regards to 'letting go' of extrinsic motivation. I find that term troubling because it assumes the extrinsic motivation is bad. In my opinion extrinsic motivation is neither good nor bad and should be used in conjunction with intrinsic motivators depending on the situation and the person. Moving away from this idea that motivation is either intrinsic or extrinsic is probably the way forward. Let's face it life isn't either/or it is both. Most people do things for both intrinsic and extrinsic reasons, although depending on the people in your class you may find you have no choice but to use the carrot and stick method. You first port of call should be to change the climate, let go of all preconceptions of motivation, and try to build a self-determined approach to motivation (it's radical and will feel horrible to begin with).

I agree with Matthew - there is a recent study on narcissism, extrinsic goals and existential meaning:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/308535415_Material_Meaning_Narcissists_Gain_Existential_Benefits_From_Extrinsic_Goals

and there are hardly "tricks" to shift people to intrinsic motivation and autonomy, the whole approach needs to be changed: one needs promote independence and thinking, reflexion, pondering students on their goals, I guess.

Article Material Meaning: Narcissists Gain Existential Benefits From...

I think the original question is misguided. First the dichotomy leaves out achievement motivation (the desire to perform well against a standard). Second to be happy and successful ideally you should have all three: do something you love, do it well and get rewarded. Third it demonizes extrinsic motivation. This is suicidal. To love you have to think long range and many things you do are a means to an end (the proper meaning of extrinsic), e.g.,  brushing your teeth, eating properly, saving money, getting educated,  and hundreds more  things.

Matthew, Ksenia, and Edwin, 

I appreciate the time you put into helping me answer my question. I find exploring other opinions to be a fascinating and powerful endeavor into questioning educational beliefs. One comes out of the experience either strengthened in their original resolve, or ready to let go of lesser thinking and moving to a higher ideal. 

In this case, I feel strengthened in the validity of my original thoughts. Please allow me explain...

Following the advice of  Matthew, I did a fair amount of digging into Deci and Ryan's Self Determination Theory and while doing so found some interesting research that seems to fall into line with my idea of "moving away" from extrinsic motivators. 

One study done in Munich by Kou Murayamaa,, Madoka Matsumotob, Keise Izumab,and Kenji Matsumotob shows through MRI study that extrinsic motivators actually undermines a person's intrinsic motivation to engage in a task. 

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/278249638_Neural_basis_of_undermining_intrinsic_motivation_by_monetary_rewards

A variety of other research that I browsed supported extrinsic motivators being downfalls of long-term success. 

I am still looking in to achievement motivation, I'll let you know what I find. It seems very interesting. 

Edwin, as for your comments, I have a few questions. I am wondering about your idea that motivation can't be a hierarchy. In my mind it doesn't make sense that mowing someone's lawn for recognition and $20 is the same as sneakily mowing and leaving with no thought of reward. How can those ideas not be a natural hierarchy? 

If I eat properly, not so I can be sexy for others, but so I can have energy to help others - how can those be on the same plane?

Does using external motivators encourage people to be externally motivated in the future? Take a person who is motivated by money and power because of the gamification of their school-room as a child where they bought extra credit with good behavior (and a variety of other things - I'm not saying that one event would change long-term motivation).  This individual goes into politics. Are they then not more likely to be corrupted by external motivators such as money and furthering of one's own interests rather than those of the people?

Seeking understanding,

Andrew

Article Neural basis of undermining intrinsic motivation by monetary rewards

i like your thoughts about politicians! :) but i hope that some are going there to help others... not many though :(

Ksenia,

If instead the individual was taught from a young age that doing things for an ulterior motive was potentially manipulative and could lead to damaging future relationships, this person would have a firm foundation and would hopefully not be motivated by external ideals.

This person could do things because they are right, regardless of societal expectations with no thought of reward. Any rewards that did come would be thought of as a natural consequence, and not the driving force behind their actions. They would be liberated from the need to "play the game" and could truly help and create impact. 

Thoughts?

I guess I was not clear--I am totally against moving people just to intrinsic motivation--life and happiness require 3 kinds-- intrinsic: loving of the activity itself; achievement: love of doing well; and extrinsic: doing things as a means to an end (which involves much more than money)-much of life involves means ends relationships-- to do away with extrinsic is suicidal--you have to live long range- Deci is way off base in his approach-and in answer to the issue of doing what is right--I do not approach morality that way at all--the purpose4 of a moral code is to make your life successful and happy on earth- I should warn you I am not religious if you want me to expand--

well, tell me, Andrew, for a long time i tried to do exercises to loose weight. doctors told me, that it's bad for my health, and i agree, but it didn't really motivate me for a long run. exercising was too hard and gruelling. and i like thinking and working mentally more. but then i went on a hike, and i liked it very much. but i am a slow walker. and to walk longer distances or to walk in a group i definitely need to exercise. and i started exercising and overcame the gruelling period and now i even like it. is it external or internal? it's definitely seeing for a result - to be a better walker and to see more and to be able to walk with people.

i think intrinsic and extrinsic distinction is much deeper than just seeing the goal or preferring the process. it's about autonomy, it's about aquiring the motivation deep within.

Ksenia: I interpret your story differently. You had extrinsic motivation: to be healthier. You had a goal to lose weight. You got to enjoy walking as an end in itself though it started as a means to and end, which I assume it still is.. So you had all three types of motivation . All motivation is from within. But you get pleasure from different sources and combinations.

no, i disagree, that all motivations are from within - you interiorise everything, everything first comes from the outside. but some motives you take as your own, and some leave as they are - what doctors say, what people find cool...

I disagree that everything comes from the outside--the outside is only possibilities--you have the power to choose what you want-- of course if you choose not to think for yourself, then you will just conform but no one has to be passive-

 Edwin, 

I would love to hear your take on how extrinsic motivators are long-lasting. In my limited experience I've seen people who are motivated by extrinsic motivators fall short in aspects of their life when they thought they would excel. I agree that money is not the only extrinsic motivator, but it shows a powerful example of the pitfalls that come from being acted upon rather than acting. 

https://www.ted.com/talks/dan_pink_on_motivation#t-668409

Dan Pink gives many examples of this in his Ted Talk on motivation. 

Edwin, just seen your answer. My idea is that everything comes from the outside and we take it with our hearts or not. If something has an appeal to us from within, resonates in us, then it becomes an intrinsic goal, and we act on it autonomously, if not, it stays extrinsic and forced. So the one goal for different people can be extrinsic and intrinsic, even money. I think the other question is whether the goal is noble or not. I think we are mixing the notions here

I think Deci has messed up our thinking here, Money does not force us to act. We have to choose to earn a living and how and we have to choose priorities, e.g., should I take a job that pays better or one that allows for more self development with maybe more pay later? how do I balance pay with family time? do I want money to show off to others or to make my life more secure and comfortable? And the real meaning of extrinsic is: x as a means to an end--we have to think about means ends relationships throughout life and it would be very irrational not to- if your money is not long lasting, then we die broke-life is full of trade offs which means we have to make choices all the time (e.g., short vs long term.)  Further, goals have to be chosen not just with our feelings but above all with our minds-

Just came across this very interesting and basic discussion. If we take a broad look at how the world is developing, it is undeniably becoming increasingly based on mass manipulation performed by big tech with the means to a goal to control human behavior in directions that make us addicts of social media and mass consumption. The very fact that large parts of human kind is basically dependent on random reinforcement schedules in many ways render operant conditioning theory more topical than ever before. I believe that we need to acknowledge the great importance of believing and having the subjective feeling of choosing our personal paths. However, knowledge regarding how we a reinforced by the environment in which we aspire is crucial. I believe that the very antidote to destructive external reinforcement schedules is KNOWLEDGE concerning the basic mechanisms of this behavioral technology. Although B. F. Skinner has been lynched and heavily criticized for his radical (unromantic) ideas, I believe that we need to look in the mirror and prove him right in many of his predictions! I agree with both of you, yet it is important to acknowledge that behavior, aspiration (constructive / destructive) may take place in us based on a multitude of different environmental conditions. Critical thinking and knowledge is at the core of this. I also want to thank you Professor Locke for you fantastic work over so many decades!