A very telling experiment indeed.

In this context you may be interested in Esselink & Gils 1994 dealing in detail with nutrient depletion in grassland. The issue maybe even broader than annuals versus perennials. Nutrient depletion may also be associated with transformation of grassland to (dwarf) shrublands on quite a large scale.

Thanks for your answer. If you could repeat this experiment-- Measure perennial native grass plant diameters to get the age pyramid of 100 plants in a population, harvesting some native perennial grass seeds and plant them in containers of the native soil, to see if seedlings can survive without additional nutrients added, then those results would be very valuable contributions to answering this question that I am posing for all of the native grasslands, worldwide.

We did some work with trying to recover native grass component on formerly forest, converted and farmed and heavily eroded through time. The native plant component was minimal. We found that many native plants with fine seeds may need special collecting, processing and a native seed drill for planting improvement. Some species are very difficult to reestablish such as big blue stem. Others as switchgrass were easier. Repeated farming, overgrazing, severe erosion, nutrient losses as A horizon is lost, and in some instances lack of fire may have all contributed. In addition, for many years, the selection of non-native and sometimes invasive species have been used for establishing cover, providing forage, etc. The native plants have been outcompeted by our desire to use commercially available and inexpensive seed.

I think I put on a few of our papers/powerpoints in researchgate that discuss our efforts if interested. Many of the native grassses may need a moderate cover of annual grasses to help establishment, such as brown top millet. Using a native seed drill for planting fine seed was also helpful in establishment. Testing soils for excessive compaction or low nutrients, however many native species are fairly tolerant of natural stresses. Prescribed burning helpful for some conditions and species. Light scarification of soil sometimes helpful. We even grew the native seed in plugs and hand planted, established sites for future seed collection, etc. This work can be costly, and we determined that commercial nurseries were probably more efficient if they became interested in developing native seed sources. We also trid to always get seed suitable for our edosystem, such as coastal plain, piedmont, mountains from neighboring states, and avoided native seed sources from distant areas, such as out of physiographic area or sometimes region.

I would suggest that domesticated livestock have contributed, but are not the only reason for loss of native grasslands.

I forgot to include the loss of the native grasslands has also affected the hydrology of many of these areas, converting areas with relatively clean, flowing streams to eroded wastelands with minimal or poor quality cover, ephemeral streams, loss of aquatic and terrestrial habitats, etc. The buffalo did not destroy the native grasslands because they kept moving, rather than overgrazing. It is lack of concern, knowledge or poor management that has contributed to this issue that has affected many landscapes and ecosystems.

What I am asking with this question, is that for whatever reason the soil nutrients have dropped below the thresholds needed for local native seedling survival, we need to check this condition all across the planet.

If we take soil from the top four inches (10 cm) and put it in containers, and sow local native seeds, are they able to grow to reproductive maturity without adding any fertilizers, or do they die at two inches tall, like my seedlings did without fertilizers in the pictures at

Then, if we want to successfully plant local native seeds and have their seedlings survive, how much fertilizer or what kind do we need to add? That is where the A-17 tests from Waypoint labs help us determine those needs.

In some part of the California old heavily grazed Spanish Rancho grant lands (1810-1850) that I am restoring, I need to add up to 5,000 pounds of fertilizers per acre, until I have replaced all of the nutrients that the cows walked away with, so long ago!

I guess you mean grazing have lowered soil nutrients. Well generally Grazing do have effects on soil nutrients.

Yes, grazing can lower soil nutrients, but what I am suggesting with my questions, is that grazing worldwide has lowered those levels below the soil nutrient thresholds needed for native plants seedling survival.

That is what we can can all check in our grasslands across the planet, by using the protocol that I am outlining in this question. Planting local native seeds in containers filled with the grassland soil, and see if the seedlings grow to reproductive maturity.

And if the seedlings die instead of growing to maturity, send the liter soil sample to the Waypoint Lab in San Jose, and check which nutrients are missing with their A-17 soil test?

Then repeat the seed test, after adding the missing nutrients, and then calculate what amount per what area, needs to be added for the future native grassland seedling survival thresholds.

uprooting of seedlings and damage of top soil causes deterioration

When you remove the milk and drink it, or remove the cattle from the land and eat them, do you remove soil nutrients??? In California, the average amount of fertilizer I need to put back, so that the native plant seedlings can survive to adulthood, is usually about 2,000 pounds per acre, costing about $5,000 for areas that have been grazed since the Spanish Rancho Grant period, starting about 1820s.

For 25 years, I have been using the Waypoint Lab in San Jose, California and test a one quart (one liter) sample taken from the top 2 inches (5 cm) after sifting through a 1/4 inch (7 mm) mesh screen to remove rocks and vegetable matter. Then, ask for the A-17 test ($50) and the A-19-2 test ($16) to test for nutrients and organic matter, and have the data only put into a bar graph format.

Using this process on individual species of native plants, have been able to set Soil Nutrient and Soil Organic Matter Thresholds, that are needed for that species seedling's survival. You can see the difference between not adding fertilizers in grazing-depleted soils, and fertilizing at http://www.ecoseeds.com/good.example.html and the threshold for individual native species at http://www.ecoseeds.com/seed-thresholds.html