Ijaz Durrani

Dear Igor Bayak,

I see a difficulty in your proposal, which is the spiral coil around vacuum chamber of a Tokamak.

This is because iteration between the toroidal and polyoidal magnetic fields creates a helical magnetic field. If you introduced a new coil creating another helical field, it is possible that this interference will unstable the magnetic confinement of the plasma in a Tokamak.

I think what you propose is much more like a Stellarator than a Tokamak. Even so, coils are not helical as you propose. A different machine would have to be developed, both a Tokamak and a Stellarator.

Iteration of magnetic fields necessary for production and confinement of plasma, will need many studies and simulations for this new coil to come to realize what was proposed in its questioning.

Differences between Stellarator and Tokamak machines can be seen in:

Basic Video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqmoFzbZYEM

Paper:

Yuhong Xu, A general comparison between tokamak and stellarator plasmas. Matter and Radiation at Extremes. Volume 1, Issue 4, July 2016, Pages 192-200 (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2468080X16300322).

I hope it helps your creativity and new ideas.

Best Regards,

Prof. Dr. Filipe Wiltgen

Dear Filipe Wiltgen, thanks, but you misunderstood me.

No, spiral coils should not be used there. Coils of a toroidal field with varying winding density are used, which increases in the region of the singularity. You can even make a toroidal chamber in the shape of a banana with the ends joined together. According to the concept, it is expected that in such a chamber an electric field is induced, which forms a spiral plasma filament, by means of an alternating voltage applied to the inductor and the toroidal solenoid.

Igor

If I understood correctly, you intend to change geometry of toroidal coils, that is, in some regions? Like, since magnetic field is produced by electric current that circulates through the coil.

Is your idea to superimpose coils on main toroidal coils? The idea of ​​a vacuum chamber with tightening (banana toroidal shape), does not allow to obtain nuclear fusion in a Tokamak! This is because the volume of plasma must be large enough to nuclear fusion, with narrowing this is not possible.

The application of alternating voltage in main toroidal coils is not able to maintain magnetic field necessary for confinement of plasma, as magnetic field will saturate with time, and I don't know how fast this occurs given the high electric current required. However, if you do it the way I understand it, and commented above, it is possible to contribute with an electric field, but not a magnetic field. If you replace electrical source from alternating to continuous, in this new coil over the main Toroidal coil, the extra field generated in this new coil must significantly interfere with total helical field.

Have you run simulations of these fields?

Let's not talk about thermonuclear fusion for now. Let's just try to simulate a device in which the geometry of the plasma cord has a spiral shape, that is, it is a coiled helical line with a decreasing step. In the region of the singularity of such a plasma filament, we must obtain a rotating ring of plasma, which we then subject to electrostatic compression. As far as I understand, in the area of ​​singularity, it is necessary to place a magnetic plug and for this in this area it is enough to strengthen the coils of the toroidal magnetic field, and to obtain a poloidal electric field ( you are right) it is necessary to use an additional toroidal solenoid.

Filipe Wiltgen: "The application of alternating voltage in main toroidal coils is not able to maintain magnetic field necessary for confinement of plasma, as magnetic field will saturate with time, and I don't know how fast this occurs given the high electric current required. However, if you do it the way I understand it, and commented above, it is possible to contribute with an electric field, but not a magnetic field. If you replace electrical source from alternating to continuous, in this new coil over the main Toroidal coil, the extra field generated in this new coil must significantly interfere with total helical field."

And why are multiple toroidal coils used in a tokamak? Why can't you replace them with one toroidal solenoid? By the way, by the alternating voltage applied to the toroidal solenoid and to the inductor of our modified tokamak, we mean the sawtooth voltage, which ensures the constant direction of the plasma current.

Filipe Wiltgen: "Have you run simulations of these fields?"

Not yet. But I don't even know how to do it.

Let's get answers!

Igor Bayak: "And why are several toroidal coils used in a tokamak? Why can't you replace them with a toroidal solenoid?"

You can, but it will not form a sustainable helical field necessary to contain and form the plasma and essential for nuclear fusion!

As for simulations, you have to use a zero dimensional model and simulate the behavior of plasma formation and containment, according to simulated electrical current and voltage levels of electrical circuits via Spice.

However, I can tell from my experience that this will need someone with good programming skills to model geometry of vacuum chamber and coils, in addition to real positions of each coil in space.

As for the functioning of fields and electrical circuits, just use any Spice model that you know and insert the behavior of components used and their location in the circuit. That's easy.

Still, you can use finite elements to check the behavior of magnetic fields.

I don't want to appear incredulous, but for more than 10 years I did simulations, designed and built magnetic and plasma-forming circuits at Tokamak ETE here in Brazil (Article SPHERICAL TOKAMAK DEVELOPMENT IN BRAZIL

Presentation Progress on the ETE Spherical Tokamak (Experimento Tokamak Esférico)

Article Pulsed electric system for production and confinement of pla...

I don't see how a helical coil can help support plasma and apply controlled thermonuclear fusion. However, your simulations will tell you if this works or not.

Good luck!

Filipe Wiltgen: " I don't see how a helical coil can help support plasma and apply controlled thermonuclear fusion. However, your simulations will tell you if this works or not."

Okay, but can you imagine a plasma filament having a singularity in the form of a small circle with a gap orthogonal to the main circle of the plasma filament of the toroidal chamber? The nuclear fusion reaction must be localized in just such (or similar) feature and occur as a result of electrostatic compression of the feature.

So in a tokamak, several coils of a toroidal field are used in order to spatially separate them for cooling, or is there another reason?

Igor Bayak: "Okay, but can you imagine a plasma filament having a singularity in the form of a small circle with a gap orthogonal to the main circle of the plasma filament in the toroidal chamber? The nuclear fusion reaction must be located only on such a resource (or similar) and occur as a result of the electrostatic compression of the resource."

Not! Nuclear fusion in Tokamak needs a large volume of plasma. Furthermore, it is not a circular plasma section format in Tokamak that is obtained by nuclear fusion, it is with the elongated D-shaped plasma, the way you propose was exhaustively studied in 1950s.

Igor Bayak: "So, in a tokamak, several coils from a toroidal field are used to separate them spatially for cooling, or is there another reason?"

Are toroidal coils in a Tokamak arranged in this way to obtain helical magnetic field and confine plasma, not because of cooling? This is a consequence and not a cause. I strongly recommend that you study a Tokamak machine in nuclear fusion.

Here's the tip and good luck:

https://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/nuclear/5-big-ideas-for-making-fusion-power-a-reality

You point out to me my gaps in understanding the main provisions of thermonuclear fusion (and this is true), but you also did not understand the main point of the proposed plasma confinement configuration. And the essence of the proposed method is that during electrostatic compression of a rotating ring, the plasma reaction of nuclear fusion is caused not by chaotic pair collisions at high temperatures, but by long-term collective interaction of nuclei in a dense rotating cloud of ions. You may argue that the Coulomb barrier does not depend on the interaction time of nuclei, but only on the distance between them, but quantum mechanics tells us that the product of the interaction time by the height of the energy barrier is of the order of Planck's constant. Therefore, in this case, we do not need either a high temperature or a large volume of plasma, but it is necessary to obtain and maintain for some time a high concentration of ions in feature of the plasma filament.

Dear Igor,

I have been researching nuclear fusion in Tokamaks since 1993 (28 years). And I do not believe that it is possible to obtain cold fusion (low temperatures), only at very high temperatures.

However, I wish you luck and hope you succeed.

Sincerely,

Prof. Wiltgen

Dear Filipe,

So you don't believe in ball lightning either. And I believe. But seriously, you can't do without an experiment. Do you think there will be enthusiasts if the funding issue is resolved?

Sincerely,

Igor

I am writing for myself, but if you have something to say, then write too. As far as I understood, the proposed plasma confinement configuration was not considered even theoretically, since few people take into account the collective accelerator mechanism of nuclear fusion. On the other hand, if an experimental device was created on the basis of this configuration and a positive energy yield was obtained, then without a collective accelerating mechanism it would be difficult to substantiate a positive energy yield. The only thing left is to create such a device and test everything in practice. But first it would be nice to create a community of people aimed at solving this problem. I will be glad if you respond (address for correspondence [email protected]).

I'm sorry I thought you knew that lightning doesn't make nuclear fusion! An atmospheric discharge is cold plasma and not cold fusion. I thought you knew the difference.

And I continue to support what I said before.

Sincerely.

Filipe Wiltgen,

I will not insist, but it seemed to me that people have not yet learned how to reproduce natural ball lightning, so you should not state so categorically about the absence of cold thermonuclear inside ball lightning.

By the way, to drain energy into our circuit, it would not hurt to add a motor-generator, which could first be used to spin up the gas inside the toroidal chamber.

Sincerely,

Igor.

Ijaz Durrani

Thank you, I should invite Alexander Oreshko to this discussion.

I know that cold plasma does not produce nuclear fusion!

Given my scientific experience of almost thirty years in nuclear fusion, and in the construction of tokamaks, I believe that I have the right to have my opinion very well formed.

And nature will show that nuclear fusion processes always involve large amounts of energy, and high temperatures.

I will not try to explain the obvious and I have no time to waste with it!

I end my participation in this debate. I ask you to please no longer quote me in future discussions.

Prof. Dr. Filipe Wiltgen

I figured out how to briefly describe our new plasma confinement device. In the middle, in the gap of the open magnetic trap, we put a turbine with an electric motor (generator), and then bend the magnetic trap so that its ends join, forming a circle (ring) of the minimum diameter in relation to the diameter of the trap pipe at the junction boundary. In addition, at the junction of our bent pipe, we will place a solenoid (inductor) that generates plasma in a rotating funnel of gas spun by the turbine. If we create the conditions for the initiation of a thermonuclear fusion reaction, then the electric motor of the turbine can be turned off and turned on the generator mode.

Ijaz Durrani

https://ibb.co/XkC4jxx

In this scheme, it is assumed that the ring of rotating plasma ions is compressed by a constant radial electric field. However, if we slightly modify the circuit by adding inductance to the capacitor, we can act on the plasma ring with an alternating radial electric field, causing its diameter to periodically decrease and increase. Perhaps this mode will be more preferable for inducing a nuclear fusion reaction, since here, when the frequency of natural oscillations of the plasma ring and forced oscillations coincide, the resonance mechanism is activated.

However, I have something better.

https://ibb.co/Hg4GPJ6

The main element of a vortex plasma engine is a conical funnel, at the inlet of which the turbine forms a gas vortex, and the conical inductor turns it into a rotating plasma ring. In crossed fields (radial electric and magnetic field orthogonal to it), the plasma ring contracts (including due to its own magnetic field) and oscillates, and under the action of the Ampere force it is twisted in the direction of the vortex rotation.In addition, in the radial electric field between the conical anode and the coaxial cathode, a ponderomotive force acts on the plasma particles, which is proportional to the gradient of the square of the electric field strength and is directed towards the weakening of the strength. Thus, at the funnel inlet, the ponderomotive force is directed against the plasma flow, and at the funnel outlet, the plasma flow is accelerated by the ponderomotive force, creating an additional jet thrust. It is expected that the collectively accelerating mechanism of plasma ring oscillations will be sufficient to "ignite" a cold thermonuclear fusion reaction. In this case, at the outlet of the funnel, we get not only a faster but also a hotter gas vortex. Note also that a plasma ring rotating in a radial electric field will polarize, and therefore, when the frequency of the ring oscillations coincides with the Langmuir frequency, a resonance will occur, which is favorable for cold thermonuclear fusion.

Dear I. Bayak, at tokamak important are 3 things: temperature, pressure and long pulse ( with machine learning), for obtaining the Lawson criterion . If You are able to construct the machine that gives on continuous way, for example, ten times bigger energy output than energy input, you will be the great man.

Danilo Rastovic,

the tokamak served as a starting point in my theoretical research, but now they have switched to Deleted research item The research item mentioned here has been deleted

Igor