Modern analyzers are closed systems: they only allow commercial reagents: the quality is high but the price is high

an old analyzer can be programmed by the user and allows to design own experimental conditions and to use home -brewn affordable reagents

Thanks,

So a good quality multi purpose analyzer that is an open system with kenetic measurement would be sufficient.

Or would the short interval time between measurements i.e. in enzyme activity be of special interest for researchers?

The Cobas Fara, as already stated, is supremely flexible, it also has an extremely small sip volume (amount of sample than can be taken out of a tube) very important when dealing with small sample volumes. However, they are becoming increasing difficult to find spares for perhaps a Cobas Mira might be a better second hand option.

Thank you,

I am not looking for a second hand analyzer, more at what a modern analyzer is lacking (if at all) for certain researchers. Possibly to develop a dedicated research analyzer. I am intregued by the enthousiasm the Fara still evokes.

Hallo,

I have worked with centrifugal analyzers, closed analyzers and highly efficient modern analyzers such as Hitachis (later Modulars) from Roche, Advias from Siemens, and those from Abbot like the Architect.

The analyzers from Siemens, Roche end Abbot use only microliters (2-10) of sample, are multichannel analyzers and have an extremely high resolution (close to 1/10000 extinction-units). The reagents are also in part extremely cheap (for example creatinine for less than 5 cents). it is clear of course, that immunologic methode are more expensivhe, due to the higher costs for antibodies. Many of the analyzers use often reagents from Roche, which have a distribution rate in Germany of more than 50%. We have also applied research tests or tests .with different human specimens, such as urine and capillary blood and even animal specimens or research samples.without troubles. One example was to apply a method with diluted capillary blood for glucose measurement with the Architect. Abbot even helped, to program the instrument.These instrumensts are mostly completely open with free use of sample and reagent volumes, wavelength, duration of measurment and more. The Instrument manufacturers are naturally interested to make money with their own reagents, but they also have to do everything, to keep their instruments in the laboratory.

I think, that the centrifugal analyzers are out of future, if you see the powerful characteristics af a modern analyzer in a modern laboratory of clinical chemistry or laboratory medicine.

Sighart Golf

Thanks!

Maybe one just should ask, instead of assuming a system is not open.

Hallo!

If such an analyzer works in a certified laboratory,, such as ours in Giessen, you have to certify such a non-certified method, of couse in order to apply it for human specimens. Mostly, this is not a problem.

Sighart Golf

I agree with many of the views of Walter . We often use "modern" equipment with open channels to adapt techniques and reagents for procedures that interest us, sometimes with the aid of technical experts of the instrument ( research use is usually minor and shareable with routine analyzes, whether different channels are used ) .

Moreover, one must be very careful with instruments like the Cobas Mira and the like, because they allow readings to an end ; it is always necessary readings to two points and the first point usually distanced mix sample / reagent time periods on the order of 20 seconds. In this time period , if the sample matrix is different from that of the calibrators , calibrators may behave differently from our samples ( calibrators very fast reaction and slower in eg samples) and can produce erroneous results .

Modern analysers are superb and open.BTS 330 Semi automated analyser Biosystems Spain is very open and progamable for at least 100 tests including enzymes,graphs and turbidimetry.I used one for twelve years.When the machine crashed,I ordered for complete mother board and screen which brought my machine to a new one.It has its complete extremely automated and open brand as A15 and A25.Check it out.

 I would like to add some arguments to the discussion if there is a niche for a centrifugal analyzer in research and/or diagnsotics. When I started working on laboratory Genetic Metabolic Diseases in 1989, the lab already had two (old) Cobas Bio machines for measuring enzyme activities. I noticed that the versitility and flexibility of these machines is great. The optical unit, with flash lamp, in combination with cuvetterotor and electronics is well thought. A few years later we bought two COBAS FARA machines which even had bigger opportunities in sample and/or reagent handling but the optical unit was/is the same. Both FARAs are still running today. But as Roche stopped producing and maintaining the FARA in 2001 because, as I’m told by a Roche representative, the machine was not making no more profit due to the open system (labs were making there own reagents, etc), we have been looking for replacement. Of course there are several semi-automatical spectrofotometers for sale but they all have less possibilities of the COBAS FARA, like batch-wise absorption and especially fluorescence measurements in one machine. We now have, next to the old FARAs, a pipettingrobot in combination with a platereader. Soon we encountered some problems like temperaturecontrol of the plates (important when measuring enzyme activities), and control of the pathlenght in the well. The first problem we resolved by using stripwells in a aluminium mould (own production) to keep the incubations at the right temperature. The pathlenght is especially important with absorbance measurements as the absorbance is dependent on the pathlenght (Lambert-Beer law). The meniscus in a well is not straight (whereas in the COBAS FARA it is!). We are now dealing with this issue by measuring the pathlenght in each well after the incubation by measuring the infrared absorbance of water at 900 nm and 998 nm. We are not certain that these problems are the reason, but we do not reach the detectionlimit from the COBAS FARA on this robot-plate reader-system. We are dealing with these cons (temperature, detectionlimit, lack of batchwise measurements) but in the meantime we are also looking for a solution. One of that is to rebuild a COBAS FARA-like machine and make a more modern machine. We are now in a phase that it is technically possible but are looking for funding and collaborators…..

Thanks for your arguments.

An open source analyzer would be interesting. how many labs do you think would want to use such an open source analyzer instrument?

I see that you are having to deal with a lot of issues that are not an issue with the FARA.

For anybody out there that still has a Fara and if finding difficulty in buying the rotors, AS Diagnostics (www.asdiagnostics.co.uk) supplies them and services them.  Doubt if they would service ones outside the UK but I'm sure they'd sell you rotors.

I would be very interested to know if anyone has any idea of how many FARA's are still used routinely. No scientific basis for my request, just that I was a Roche customer for many years from 1978, first with Centrifichem, COBAS BIO and then FARA...then I worked for Roche for the past 26 years and will retire next year. For me the FARA was the most wonderful and flexible invention, and I was able to automate so many applications in my lab at that time. It would be nice to give it a mention in my closing speech...there are are still people working here in R&D in Switzerland who remember it fondly...