Derivate and Derive. Why is the noun form of derive not derival (like arrive-arrival, survive-survival, )? Are derivation, derivative related to derivate or derive? Is derivation the noun form of derive or derivate? Moreover, derivative should be related to derivate and not derive.
You expect logic to obtain in all these cases? Not so.
I know of no principled way to select the nominalized forms of verbs. Sometimes, they are just "marked" as going with one form or the other.
Dear Glen
Yes, I think that if we deliberate strongly enough, we can find the link between apparently non-linked forms; because I believe many were designed and not random occurrences.
Narayanan
I would like nothing more than to see that demonstrated. (But good luck!)
Dear Glen
Shall I try? It needs some discourse; bear with me.
When milk (or buttermilk) is churned with a churner (a sort of ladle), after some time, the butter separates out. The churning causes separation of the butter ‘particles’ which then agglutinate. Here you derive the butter from the milk, the churning is how you derivate it, and the butter is the derivative (a product of the derivation) , and the ladle or churner is the ‘derivator’, ie that which ‘derivates’ the butter separating it from the fluid part. How I got the idea? Well derivate is ultimately from the Latin verb derivare. Latin is an IE language. In Sanskrit and Malayalam (Malayalam is a fusion of two Languages, Dravidian and Sanskrit, 80% of them derived from Sanskrit; but I think a good many entered Sanskrit from Latin through Malayalam; this one of my pet topics). In both Malayalam and Sanskrit, there is a word -darva- which means a ladle, and this, I believe, is the root of the Latin derivare . This is what set me off. I think English (and probably Latin Linguists) forgot the true meaning of this, but Malayalam and Sanksrit, the borrowers retained the root itself.
Am I logical and right?
Narayanan
You are on the right track, Narayanan. Now you need a bunch more to show that it is not a random correspondence.
dear Glenn
Thanks very much for the reply. It i very very encouraging for me.
Am continuing with it
Narayanan
Driver:
something that has an important influence on other things
Population growth is the biggest single driver of atmospheric pollution.Online Longman Dictionary
Good one, Mehtap. Suggesting that driver may be related to darva and derivate? May be. Let me think a moment.
Driver is a mover, driven ones are the moving ones. OK?
Now there is a Sanskrit word, in Malayalam too, 'adri', which means mountain. A is a negating particle like as in aphasia, ie., a mountain is a-dri. Which means that dri is something that moves. Hence, this is likely to be the root of Driver. Don't you think so?
Narayanan
English language has evolved through usage, so sometimes there would be no rational logic to explain something, and sometimes a logic is developed in the future to explain something that was already there. Maybe you may have to go back to the root language to find if there is some explanation. Best of Luck.
Narayanan,
I suggest a reading of http://www.ling.upenn.edu/courses/ling001/morphology.html by Mark Liberman of the University of Penn for some insight.
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