Dionex is by far the name in IC

I've got a Metrohm sistem, but i'm not satisfied about it especially about customer care.

Good luck

Stefano

Dionex is by far the name in IC

Dionex have 80 % of market share. All others follow

www.dionex.com

ICS 5000+ HPIC

For me Dionex ICS-5000+ with dual (anion-cation or two anions) with UV, PDA, detectors and chromeleon software works great

Ion chromatography is not a two horse race. Dionex is by far the most popular but others - not only Metrohm - are also producing decent IC equipment – for example Shimadzu and Knauer. It all depends on your needs, costs and service required. My personal experiences with Dionex customer service are country dependent – I have enjoyed great Dionex support in the Switzerland and negligent in the UK. The best way is to contact few customers in the same country and ask for their experiences. Happy IC hunting.

Dionex (Thermo FIsher) is a world leader in ion chromatography. All you need is pure water and the eluent can be automatically made by the instrument. Dionex columns are more efficient and ultrastable due to a unique bonding system. Metrohm IC is also high quality Swiss instrument but they do not have automatic eluent generation technology as yet. Just check which company has a better customer support in your area.

thanks for all, actually, I worked on Metrohm system before but its results were in +- 5% with standard samples, this results can be acceptable with direct measurement but my samples will be diluted 1:1000 Which means more move away from the real measurements, so I need your opinion about accuracy , is another system is better than IC system??

The accuracy depends on the operator rather than the machine. You should contact the companies about the detection limits. Both Dionex and Metrohm will give accurate results as these instruments are used by regulatory companies and none of them will tolerate less accurate results.

"thanks for all, actually, I worked on Metrohm system before but its results were in +- 5% with standard samples"

There are several factors influencing analytical precision. So, it is not necessarily an instrument problem.

All measurements/determinations have some error and it should be included in results. You could send your sample to both companies and ask them to analyze the samples. After receiving results from the analyses, you can then choose right system for your application.

You could send your sample to both companies and ask them to analyze the samples. After receiving results from the analyses, you can then choose right system for your application.

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Always a good idea !

in general all of them can be provide your required concentration that in ppb, but the (Dionexs 5000) system can provide more options and features such as analysis cations and anions at the same time without need to change the mobile phase. 

Dionex were first on the scene and for a long time there was little or no competition. I don't know to what extent this was due to effective intellectual property protection, or just because the niche wasn't considered worth competing in. They specialised in complete solutions and would not sell anything if you didn't have a complete instrument. Customers who could afford it appeared to be satisfied if a solution existed for their particular requirements.

I needed IC only occasionally and resented the fact that it wasn't possible to adapt an 'ordinary' HPLC instrument. Modules became available some time ago, though in aregulated lab it proved technically and administratively complicated to add third-party accessories to a "qualified" instrument.

In the circumstances it's probably natural that competitors have taken some time to catch up in what still seems to be a relatively small proportion of the LC market. Concerning intellectual property, the Golay patent of 1957 is often cited because it is widely thought to have delayed the general introduction of capillary GC columns for 20 years. This situation, which was not the only one affecting analytical science, was probably a bit more complicated than that, but I haven't yet seen a dispassionate review of the topic.

I use a Dionex microbore IC system ICS-3000 that is suitable for sequential analysis of both anions and cations with suppressed conductivity detection.  Since this is a microbore platform the system is much more sensitive than a standard IC-HPLC system. Ions can be determined at the ppb level under optimal analytical conditions.  Dionex offers a wide variety of analytical columns for specific applications. they offer a large development. I would say that the last versions of the IC chromatographs from Dionex are the Rolls Royce of the IC systems.

I have been using Dionex for years, I started using it when I worked at the FDA and I did a lot of work for the USP using the Dionex system. The software is top notch and the instruments are well built and give great results when used properly. The Dionex suppresior design is the best in the industry. Dionex also is very good at helping you set up a method on the instrument you purchase and are always there to help. I can't speak highly enough about all of the Dionex products. Dionex will even install a demo unit for you to try out before you buy!

If you choose Dionex IC systems, ask for a microbore system with a  flow line made of PEEK material that is also unique of Dionex. The PEEK tubing is important for corrosive eluents or samples such as the ones we collect at volcanic fumaroles, springs, and lakes with pH below zero. A microbore system will save lots of money on eluents and you will reduce the waste about 4 times. Also a microbore system is more sensitive than a standard IC system.

I agree with all the answers above. If you only want to analyse Ions directly in your sample the best choice is Dionex. Their suppressor technique is the best. But if you want to modify your IC system later you must always use Dionex systems. The ppb level is no problem. It doesn't work good together with other LC-systems.

Dionex ion chromatography is the best equipment from all IC systems

I use Dionex ICS3000 since 2009 and I'm satisfied for the results.

I suppose Methrom is a very good instrument, too, but there are problems with the service, at least in Romania.

We participated in intercalibration exercises and the results obtained with Dionex were good.

Just ask for a life demonstration in you lab and ask the suppliers to run your sample.

This is the way to compare.

We have been using a Dionex ICS 3000 microbore platform automatic system for sequential analysis of anions and cations since 2006 and we are very satisfied. I also recommend to ask the brand companies to run your samples and to show you the performance, pros, and cons of their equipments. Then, it will be easy to decide which brand. 

We work with a Dionex ICS3000 since 2009 for the simultaneous analysis of cations and anions in precipitation samples. We are satisfied. We also could chose a Methrom system and we was very close to take it, but they had only two instruments intalled in Romania (one of them second - hand). Dionex had at that time much more installed new instruments in Romania and good specialists for methods implementation and service. It's important to have references materials and to run analysis with both systems, if you have the possibility. For Dionex, it is a problem that the spare parts come in 1.5 or 2 month, sometimes even later, because of the distance from Romania to USA.

Good luck! 

The choice of instrument is always complex, according my esperience in this case the analytical quality is not a good parameter, cause both instrument are not enough to analyse anions and cation at ppb level. ion chromatography got not such a sensivity unless you have to spend money for online preconcentration and or a mass spectrometer as rivelator.

Anyway your choiche should be made according the maintenance cost, with metrohm regard only the columns, cause the suppressor is a chemical one while Dionex got a very expansive and delicate elettrochemical one. Metrohm gives suppresor 10 years granted. moreover Metrohm conductometric detector got a really low noise, think signal is significative at the second decimal. that's' a good base to work in ultratrace as you're going to.

After ten year i use a metrohm there I just spend money to change column, never called for any repair or malfunction. I just analyze somthing like 3000 water sample a year, and some hundred of food stuff. Before metrohm i've used dionex but with continous problem of baseline stability and really espansive manutention of the suppressor.

Analytical quality depends from how you work.

For the analyses of species in waters in the ppb level, I would suggest ICP-MS or even better IC-ICP/MS. Brands: Definitively I would suggest ThermoScientific-Dionex (which incorporates Dionex parts). I have been using a Dionex ICS 3000 system with microbore platform and electrolytic suppression since 2006 and we are highly satisfied with the performance of the whole system and the analytical columns. Dionex IC systems are composed of modules so you can have a customized system. Also Dionex offers all of the components of the IC system that are in contact with the mobile phase and samples made with an inert material PEEK.

Our team have just bought a Dionex ICS 5000 system (thermo scientific), and maybe Patrice can give you some help.

A modular system should help with current and future requirements, as you can add to it, as and when required.  In regulated or other laboratories, instrument qualification is the same as that of an integrated system.Kind regards,

Ade Kujore

Marketing

Cecil Instruments Limited

Milton Technical Centre, Cambridge CB24 6AZ

United Kingdom

email:- [email protected]

telephone:- +44 (0) 1223 420821

fax.:- +44 (0) 1223 420475

web site:- www.cecilinstruments.com

Something else to consider is how far away the nearest service center/technician is. If you look at performance, all instruments will be fairly similar, although some will have advantages over others in certain areas, but one manufacturer may not have a technician based within a thousand miles from your location, so if you have a problem with your system, it will be down for a long time, and it will be very expensive to pay a service technician to come all the way to your location. Also consider the availability of parts in your area, although this may be kind of minor, if you have to have parts shipped from another country, it will take considerably longer.

I have been using IC of Dionex since last 20 years on different version and latest on Automated ICS 5000. I have analysed water samples at ppb level also. We have also compared results of the same sample with ICP-MS and Metrohm instrument and found very close numbers within 5%. I am satisfied with instrument of Dionex now Thermo. However, maintenance cost of Dionex is higher as compared to Metrohm. So it depends on what precision someone want and cost one can afford. For routine analysis with less maintenance cost Metrom,s IC is good where as high precision and low level analysis Dionex is good.

I've used Metrohm and Dionex, I don't want to give you a massive answer but with multiple years of experience on both. Go with Dionex. You're welcome to contact me if you want me to elaborate on the multiple reason (software/hardware/technical support/applications/published methods by each manufacturer).

Ashkan is there an instrument that can measure the chemical composition of rainwater? I just want a simple to use and durable instrument to assist me to measure the cations and anions of many samples of rainwater

Phil, honestly ANY IC should be able to give you anions/cations. I recommend a Dionex system used off of eBay, doesn't need to be a super modern system if you want basic anions/cations. EPA 300.1 is what you want to look at and look at a Cation Column to see what you can do for that. Without knowing your reporting limits that you are looking for.. tought to recommend anything past that. But basically, a super simple machine is good enough to analyse anions and cations, 2D and MS systems are required IF you need super low limits (preconcentration). Make sure you have a few basic things in your system, suppressor, column temperature control, carbon removal device (nice to have, not required). Don't bother with an eluent generation system unless you're looking for a super low level device(more expensive to run/setup/purchase/ect). Let me know if you have any other questions.

Ashkan thank you very much. Only cations and anions nothing more

I need simple to use, cost effective and durable machine.

Ashkan please also could you provide me the estimated cost, we would like to purchase such instrument.

Simple, easy, robust: go for a Metrohm IC. The anion suppressor holds a 10 years warranty, cation do not need a suppressor.

And yes, I am biased, I am Metrohm.

Philbert, I do NOT work for Dionex, so I can't quote you on anything. I was just helping you out. The prices vary a lot, New vs Used / they set it up vs you set it up. If you need help with all of it, feel free to message me on here.

Megan, I totally agree with you. Best idea ever!