Here in the UK we've lost our way on this question. Perhaps where you are as well? We teach more and more with fewer resources, students for profit, not education. Researchers must be "profit centers" and undertake commercial work. Students care little of education for its own sake, but want guarantees of higher future incomes! The whole thing seems rotten. Or am I old fashioned?
Christopher Nock i lack enough evidence to generalize this poor trend across Africa, but i think the situation will likely be the same, if advanced nations in UK and beyond are facing similar issues. It appears it is a general issue across the World or something.
Away from my hypothesis above, the situation in Nigeria is worst. Read the statement of problem and background of my article through this link https://www.researchgate.net/publication/327666417_Personnel_Management_and_Corrupt_Academic_Practices_in_Universities_in_Cross_River_State_Nigeria
I have cried enough about faulty university system in Nigeria.
The issue is so serious in Nigeria that the focus of universities keeps undergoing scrutiny as each day passes by. Even the education offered is sub-standard and questionable. Lecturers and students alike keep dancing to the tune of corrupt practices. No research facilities are available and no resources from the government to conduct empirical investigations, grants are rare to find. Even the education offered are based on certification and not skills or intellectual development.
I have to say, I agree. I am a Masters Student, and have always taken higher education seriously. Unfortunately the students themselves see the whole experience as a three year party. My whole bachelor's degree was students partying and getting their assignments done last minute. In that respect, I can see why tutors have sort of given up and stopped spending on better resources to lecture hungover students.
Thank you both for your honest answers, although it's all a little depressing! I had imagined it might be a strictly British problem, but clearly not....
Are you in Sweden Martina?
NOCK
Yes, it is depressing! I would have thought the increase in tuition fees about 4 years ago would have deterred the party goers but evidently not!
Im originally from the UK, my bachelors was in marketing comms. At the University of Westminster and my masters is in service management; retail at Lund university. Love it so far!
I remember how I was taken aback a little of UK universities when I first joined one for work. I am pretty sure those who have grown up with the system got used to it and do not even realyze that it is different in other places. True enough, publishing is part of being a scientist and one should do so whenever one can, but there are times you do not publish, but rather do the research your later publications would be based on. Just counting how much, how often, and where does not feel appropriate if you are sometimes spending years on a certain research. It does, however, spread to European countries now.
But since you were asking about other countries and how things were there and what changes were taking place, lets' talk about German universities:
Things that have changed:
- Usually joining university was free of charge in Germany, but when student fees had been introduced a lot of teachers noticed that student's attitude was changing. Universities had turned into an educational service-provider and student's attitude changed often into the direction of a customer: "Im paying for this! Make sure I learn something! Its' your responsibility that I am learning!" Student fees are a thing of the past now, but since the attitude has been introduced traces are still there.
- The structure of German university too has changed. Usually you did pick up studies and left with a Magister Artium (equivalent of your Master of Arts) or Diploma. Now the Baccalaurius (B.A.) has been introduced in order to make German university degrees more comparable to degrees from other countries. At the same time three years of German highschool had been reduced to two years, without reducing the curriculum. School turned even more into an institution of memorizing instead of understanding. The term "Binge-Learning" got introduced meaning: memorizing everything for an exam on Monday, then forget everything and memorize all for another exam on Wednesday - you will never need it again anyway. Nowthose kids joined university and since they were supposed to leave within a short period of time with a university degree, BA-studies were pretty much like school, whereas back in the day you could spend the first couple of semesters to break up school-habits. You hardly have the time for it now and leave it for the M.A. studies for those who wand to push ahead after the B.A. (Don't blame me for generalizing here, there are always willing and able students, but my contributions are already getting out of hand. You would not want me to go into detail even more.) Now in the most parts of Germany we are back to three years of highschoo, but we still suffer the teaching system at university.
- How about the PhD then? Back in the day you had your topic, your supervisor and you were pretty much on your own. All right already, you had meet ups with other PhD-students and your supervisor at times, but you were responsible for research and text. Now there are institutions at universities to teach PhD students how to do their thesis, how to structure their research, how to write and so forth. Sure enough, this is all very nice and dandy, but this is what they should have learned when doing their M.A. The M.A. thesis is proof of their abilities and PhD is proof of their ability to independently structure and carry out a research project. Teaching them along the way during the PhD defeats the purpose of the thesis.
Actually, I forgot to mention something. In my second year of university, there were some students who didn’t have GCSEs - British students without GCSEs in English and maths studying at university level. Can you believe it?!
So with the entry levels being a bogus system, I’m sure tutors know the level of students entering are not as high as universities would have us believe.
Stephan, I forgive the length if only because it's interesting! It's a familiar sounding story. Unfortunately....
I did my doctorate a long while ago. It was just me and a library card! Supervisors were good for a monthly lunch and an annual check up only!
NOCK
Christopher, I knew you were understanding when it comes to my elaborate contributions. After all, I have to compensate for having been forced to cut a long text on a difficult subject down to 9000 characters - that was most trying!
I suppose you could cut down my statement to this:
- University has changed a lot these days and resembles the school-system
- The main trait of enabling students to become self-responsible, and acquire abilities to work a problem and come up with a solution has been exchanged for memorization.
- Individualization where a student is been given room to follow his/her interests and develop a critical mindset and acquire problem-solving-abilities have been reduced to a general system that is being applied on each and every student no matter their personal interests or needs.
- As a result: public sector and the industry get less quality for "their" money when appointing graduates. At the same time the homogenization leads to the impression of their employers being exchangable. For those alumni who want to stand out it is a lot about self-improvement on all levels, doing loads of unpaid internships, taking part in dozens of courses. I am sure none of both sides profits from it, but they are yet to realyze.
Keep practicing there Stephan! We'll make a debater of you yet. Or is that how you win? Talk until your opponents head explodes? I used to know a guy who used that tactic. We called him a "mass" debater!
NOCK
Martina
It gets worse and worse. Unqualified students protected by erstwhile institutions. And, I fear, unqualified faculty in some seedy cases! The title "Professor" used to count for something important, now it falls like confetti upon moneymakers brought in as company wo/women to boost profits. It hides their lack of genuine academic worthiness. Or so I've heard. (And believe I've witnessed).
Takeover a look at www.cynicalbastards.com
NOCK
Valentine
Do you think this is a problem across Africa? It seems particularly sad in places where educated people might help improve things for all.
NOCK
Ok, so I hate to sound cynical, but privatizing higher education has actually led most universities to have a "business model" as oppose to the traditional model of learning Christopher Nock .So, yes, you are behind the times. You will hear many professors in the U.S. complain that education is now a service, students rank professors and classes based on satisfaction and not if they learned anything; and like customers, they sometimes feel they should have a good grade "just for trying." And many institutions now have to cater to this mentality in order to survive. This includes recruitment targets as many institutions are relying on tuition fees just to stay afloat...Thus, I am not surprised to hear that the poster above is seeing students entering higher ed, without pre-requisities such as GCSEs (although I am not too familiar with things like A levels, O levels, and GSCEs, as I am not British). Many do lower the bar to admit more students, and some institutions like mine are historically a "vocational" type school (polytechnic) and not necessarily a university. Even though, some years ago the government made all HEIs "universities", my institution has always and continue to, cater to a demographic that normally would not be prepared to do a liberal arts degree, but more vocational type studies. Also, the market has become more competitive for UK HEIs, including lower ranking universities, as I believed they changed the admission criteria so an institution like London Southbank or Greenwich is competing on the same level as the Oxbridges. This of course, causes HEIs to be more competitive to get more students in the door. Now, here is the scary part: PhD students. Yes, research is commercialized too, and PhD students do the bulk of the published research for many institutions. However, in the U.S. you will see that universities are graduating way WAY more PhD students then there are available jobs. I think the U.K. may be heading there too. And there is a distortion with some subjects, like history and classics PhDs are just hopeless. Many are getting teaching certifications just so they can at least teach in secondary schools, and those jobs were also slim to begin with too before PhD started taking them. So, I actually think the HE system in the U.S is on the verge of collapsing soon. Not sure about the UK as marketizing education is fairly recent. One thing I wanted to respond to @ Stephan Glienke comments about the PhD students, this is part of the change when you "widen your demographics" and I actually don't think it is a bad thing, because not everyone does an MA with a thesis and in the US they caught on to that, which is why PhD take longer and they do two years of research methods classes beforehand. So, if you are going to widen the net to get more students in (PhDs or otherwise) you can no longer assume that they are starting "here". Especially for international students. So, you have to some foundation laying so at least by the end of the first year, everyone can at "this level" (whatever that bar may be). Again, this is the effect of privatizng education, and I think a good one, it forces institutions to take on different teaching strategies and they can't rely on, "Oh well, this is the one way we do things, learn it this way or leave."
Well Sabine that's unnecessarily unkind! I prefer to think I'm quaintly old fashioned rather than behind the times! Et tu.....?
I know they're all on crappy business models and that's why no one should want to work in a university in this country! They should have more self respect! Do take a look at BUS on www.cynicalbastards.com it's old now (like me) but still effective (unlike me, apparently).
You're writing at length like Stephan. Is this wise?
NOCK
Sabine Franklin, I get what you are trying to say and yes, a PhD-Colloquium, PhD-Academy or whatnot might proof useful for foreign exchange students. However, under the German system you need an M.A. or a Diploma to be able to apply for a PhD. Receiving your B.A. you already need to produce a B.A. thesis, receiving your M.A. you will have to produce an M.A. thesis and even for a Diploma you will have to produce a written thesis. There is no B.A., no M.A., no Diploma without a written thesis and throughout your studies you will already produce an array of written thesis additional to your oral presentations and written exams.
An introductory course teaching students how to do research should not be necessary on PhD level, since both, M.A. and Diploma studies should provide all that. You'd usually started to study for M.A. right away, got the basics during the first two to three years, had an intermediate exam, then took the advanced courses that taught you all the way how to work a project and finally did the M.A. with a thesis as proof of your abilities. The reform messed with that system, put the B.A. where the intermediate exam was and now PhD students are being taught what they should have learned before getting their M.A.
As useful as a PhD-academia might be for exchange students, you do not establish such a system for exchange students. The big share of PhD students are not necessarily German nationals, but those who have undergone the German educational or at least university system. Exchange students who come to Germany in order to get their PhD are expected to present a degree comparable to M.A. or Diploma and with that they should already have a certain level of knowledge and scientific abilities at their disposal to work a PhD thesis.
Christopher Nock , there is nothing wrong with following a good example. (^_°)
St.
Christopher Nock i lack enough evidence to generalize this poor trend across Africa, but i think the situation will likely be the same, if advanced nations in UK and beyond are facing similar issues. It appears it is a general issue across the World or something.
Away from my hypothesis above, the situation in Nigeria is worst. Read the statement of problem and background of my article through this link https://www.researchgate.net/publication/327666417_Personnel_Management_and_Corrupt_Academic_Practices_in_Universities_in_Cross_River_State_Nigeria
I have cried enough about faulty university system in Nigeria.
Thank you Valentine for a worthy contribution! Much appreciated.
Christopher NOCK
We are also in the same - or, perhaps, in even worse situation - I'm in Montenegro (the Balkan Peninsula). Our students are more and more uninterested in their real academic achievements and are becoming less and less engaged. Universities are more likely to be factories (of diplomas and degrees) than academia. We are really dealing with ''serial production''. Our professors are getting more and more involved into commercial research - those papers that are published in the Clarivate Analytics (WoS) are evaluated as much better than the others (published in some ''ordinary'' scientific journal) and that is without any real link with the quality of the research. We are running for much better position in the Shanghai Ranking without common understanding of its meaning and significance. In order to publish our research papers in WoS's we are struggling with many problems, such as sample size or...
Hi Dijana,
Sorry to hear things are so bad in Montenegro! Yea, it's interesting to consider the role academics are playing in this process. We all tend to point to the students, but much of the blame lies elsewhere I think. The universities want money. "Academics" want glory and money. And it all goes to making things ever worse. I would be an academic these days. All the things I valued about it have been destroyed. I'm lucky I was able to get out when I did!
Christopher NOCK
Yes, many things are quite different now. I'm also old fashioned and really can't believe that these trends in academia will help to this world. We somehow lost our academic peace.
Thank you, professor Nock, for starting this discussion. This is something basic for the whole academia.
Dijana
I think that universities before twenty years were more academic and supply much knowledge.Some of the new methods of teaching may delay or establish barriers to the quality of knowledge .
Thank you Dijana. Like you, I think it's an important matter for all academics and, indeed, administrators. Here in the UK, only today, the government has criticised several universities for shoddy--perhaps even illegal--recruitment practices! They offer some applicants UNCONDITIONAL places. This means they don't need any particular exam grades to get enough. Bad enough, but then they say you mustn't look elsewhere. This is done to get "bums on seats" ie fee payers! That's bad....
Christopher NOCK
Paul: It sounds like the higher education market in the UK is in disarray. That's a shame.
In the United States, my experience is that universities have the resources they need and are focusing on the student more. The effort is focused on preparing the student for a career in their chosen academic field.
There is a lot of competition in the market and some universities have financial challenges, but most universities are growing. Just is just my experience and opinion.
In India private universities are coming day by day and conditions of them are worse at present specially in healthcare services
Dear Christopher Nock
you are not old fashioned, but this is the tragic reality of education.
Very important topic
Best Regards
I agree with you I became not education but making profits and also some students prefer faculties required in the market and some academics other than specialization because of the demand for money
Go back to the seventeenth century. Ponder the birth of the Newtonian world. Since, the agency illuminating reality has not changed. Only a handful of people generate thoughts that illuminate our social and physical reality. However, the space of thought has changed. It is more liberal. There is more noise. Consequently, appreciation of the agency of thought has diminished drastically. The university is a wrapping that promotes the degeneracy. So, grooming an agent of thought is tough in this modern world. The person must be moulded way before university. The modern university is an arcade that sells wraps of income potential. Call it depravity, and it seems the spread is global. However, the West had its good times. Places like Africa have never seen the good days of intellectual pursuit. Show us a strand of hope.
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