It is my practice to merge science, life and the arts.

Economization, economism and the total monetary economy are one-dimensional and linear concepts, which block the possibility of such creative (soul-uplifting) experiences that J.Dewey mentions.

Hermann Broch http://www.memorablequotations.com/broch.htm wrote a lot of such experiences.

http://iab.dickinson.edu/iab.html

Practically, a good excerise is to look at a famous work piece of art and to match own experiences (intuitive perception) vs. 'official' interpretations (standard canon). Before making this exercise, I never read anything 'official'.

I first wait for the reactions of interested followers before I share my "experience".

It is my practice to merge science, life and the arts.

Economization, economism and the total monetary economy are one-dimensional and linear concepts, which block the possibility of such creative (soul-uplifting) experiences that J.Dewey mentions.

Hermann Broch http://www.memorablequotations.com/broch.htm wrote a lot of such experiences.

http://iab.dickinson.edu/iab.html

Practically, a good excerise is to look at a famous work piece of art and to match own experiences (intuitive perception) vs. 'official' interpretations (standard canon). Before making this exercise, I never read anything 'official'.

Life is full of ups and downs. You have the power to make your life fulfilling and stay happy. Practice gratitude, think positive, be optimistic, keep yourself active physically and mentally and surround yourself with genuine friends.

Thank you Hein Retter for this interesting discussion. I believe in Never give up in life as I also believe that trials, tribulations and all the challenges that come our way are for our growth.

And I am a living testimony of that. to cut the long story short, it was during some career challenges that I discovered that I was genetically prepared to enjoy scientific writing...

Life is itself an experience

Dear Hein Retter

Your questions are very interesting and interest-provoking, but people have little time to think and explain. They like short answers.

To enrich one's life one needs to have many activities to occupy the hours of each day. When I was growing up in Greece my parents had joined traveling groups for weekend activities. We never stayed home when there was no school. Each town and city has a multitude of "clubs" for people to join.

These clubs would be mountaineering (the most interesting) combining history, archeology, geography, etc with every excursion. Then there was many theatres to occupy us in the late hours.

In North America, that I moved to for work, I miss all these activities, because there are very few.

Michael Issigonis

thanks, Michael, life is unfortunately complicated, but short answers are wonderful. Especially when the short answer shows esprit, wit and reflective power, find it exemplary. But I'm not a role model for this, unfortunatly, others might be.

I say time is important factor in everybody's life. "No one can escape its influence".

As mentioned 'ups and downs' or born with silver spoon it all depends and differ from person to person. But, one thing who strives hard is always a successful man.

Though people suffer because of their bad time nothing to feel or sink down. struggle, use your time carefully/learn from past experience then you are the successful person, people learn from you.

Jetty Ramadevi

Many thanks for the compilation of the various statements on our topic. According to my experience - and I have already exceeded half of the normal life time for a long time - it is not so much the length of time for a "good life" that matters, but doing the right thing at the right time is crucial. Of course you can discuss what is "right" or "wrong" in each case. Man is a being who has to decide again and again. He and she is exposed to his/her life not only as an animal reacting to environmental stimuli, but we must lead our life and we should have a moral framework for our actions.

Best, H.

Nadeem A Khan

Thank you very much for your statement. I agree, yes, life has its uncertainties and risks, so we have to collect experience always anew.

Best, H.

YOGESH CHANDRA TRIPATHI

thank you very much for this valuable and good advice. In view of the many things I would like to leave to posterity in my scientific endeavors, I do not feel the need to communicate with a larger circle of friends, let alone be active in any of the social media. It is enough for me as a reference person, those people with whom I feel closely connected, in a larger family, are then only 1-2 friends

Thanks for your suggestion. H.

Alain Mwamba Mukendi

Thanks for your input. You and I have had about the same experience. I came quite late to finish school and start studying, others were already at the exams while I was a freshman. It took me a long time before I realized what path I should take in life. There were a few people who helped me on that path.

Best H.

Stephen I. Ternyik

Thank you for the reference to Dürer and especially to Hermann Broch. Both are not unknown to me. But it is interesting for me to consider them in the context of our question. Ich bin mir allerdings bewusst, in privilegierten Verhältnissen zu leben, obwohl wir ganz bescheiden ohne große Ansprüche unser Leben gestalten, meine Familie und ich.

I will follow this up,

Best, H.

Yes, Hein you are absolutely right and I do agree "doing the right thing at the right time is crucial".

As you mentioned 'right' and 'wrong' are debatable items. Every one should be bound to 'Moral framework' or morality and social norms.

Being unlucky is a great fortune. Because you have to sharpen your wits and fight (dialectically) to try to overcome all the obstacles and problems of everyday life without the help of luck or anyone else. Learn "in primis" from your mistakes and experiences, and then from the mistakes and experiences of others, that is, study. Listen to everyone but always think with your own head, preferably with the stimulus of a muse, the menu of a gourmet, a glass of good wine or of good beer listening to good music. I think this is the best way to "Carpe diem" (to catch the moment).

Do one good deed for someone at 8 am and dream it has resulted in a 1000 by noon. The contagion of good gives purpose and belonging as would the hive configuration, but without abandoning one self as price for it.

I like the following post by Mr Stanley Wilkin in other discussion thread which I thik is relevant to this discussion:

"Professional life lesson-to keep on researching! No pebble is too small to look under, no rock too big to turn over, no opinion too entrenched to contest.

Life lessons-the Puritanism of this site with its dubious religious tropes and fixed ideas of the crowd, although their professional motivations are usually of the highest, do not seem to want to know genuine life lessons. Sad, really, because life is challenging and fun."

One question in return. When you write 'a new and good experience' do you then think of Erlebnis or Erfahrung? And what is meant by good? (Sorry, I come from philosophy...). Is a good Erlebnis a rich - perhaps entertaining - event that is full of relief and makes me go back to my everyday duties with new energy? - A bit like Schopenhauer: a relief in a painful life, or what Adorno could say: affirmative entertaining so I accept my everyday and don't ask questions. Or is a good Erfahrung where I, perhaps painful, learn I was wrong but now, rich from experience, achieve a better understanding to proceed with what I (wish to) do?

Carsten Friberg

Thank you very much for your inquiry, which touches me extraordinarily - for a reason that is again related to my perwsonal (scientific) experiences. I should like to answer only your first ideas, reflecting on "experience".

There are two German terms (verbs) "erfahren" and "erleben", both are EXPERIENCE in English resp. American understanding. But in German language you have just these two possibilities of expression: "Erfahrung" and "Erlebnis" (this perhaps seen as "experiencing"). It is difficult, I think - and without context almost impossible - to translate "experience" in German appropriately, because the so broad concept of experience appears here once again in a special form: "Erleben" (noun: Erlebnis) is - you will probably not contradict me - that experience which is subjective, emotionally touching, but limited in time and yet (or therefore) proves to be particularly relevant to memory.

For the German philosopher Wilhelm Dilthey at the end of the 19th century" the threefold relationship of "Erleben", "Ausdruck" (expression) - "Verstehen" (understanding) played an important role for his method of hermeneutics. Another understanding of the concept "experience" we find with John Dewey. In my opinion, it was that Dewey neither knew the German phiosopher Dilthey (1833-1911) well - nor did he appreciate German philosophy in general (whether it concerned old Prussian idealism or new existentialism).

However, as is well known, Dewey put his empirical (thus: experience-based) philosophy after the First World War entirely on the concept of "experience", which is the result of acting. And acting comes first, thiking follows - in the understanding of pragmatism.

This broad understanding of experience includes (critical) thinking. In contrast, the dispute between the English empiricists and the continental rationalists since the beginning of the 17th century is only understandable if one takes thinking and concepts (especially in Descartes' philosophy) as a preceding instance that orders all experience (so controlling the influx of sensory data into our consciousness). And this distinction between thinking and experiencing for gaining "truth" is something pragmatism - especially with Dewey - no longer has. This began with Dewey's famous essay, 1898, about the Arc Concept in Psychology. Here the difference between the inner world and the outer world of man was abolished, called into question.

Later it was clear with Dewey: "Experience" is tested by other "experience" (of so-called experts) and one chooses what one thinks is better (more successful). So scientific truth becomes the result of the "experts' experience" (or today in RG: The higher the ranking of a quoted text the more it is truthful - what an idiotic affair!); truth has got the result of the opion of some "experts", it is not more founded by scientific controlled experiments (which can fail, also). This is the reason why Dewey in the thirties could not do much with the philosophers like Reichenbach, Carnap etc. (who fled from Nazi-Germany/Austria) and with Logical Empiricism.

Kind regards, Hein

.

Carsten Friberg

In addition: Most interested people will probably take note of my long explanations with amazement. They rightly ask themselves: What does this have to do with the initial question asked, to call it a "good experience"?

Therefore I want to say that Dilthey was an important representative of the so-called philosophy of life: life itself becomes the object of philosophical reflection (i.e. not knowledge, not ethics or morals, not aesthetics). One could also call Friedrich Nietzsche. But this means that the experiences gained in life, which perhaps once seemed too banal for philosophers, now become interesting for philosophy. And, of course, one has here a starting point for answers to our question. "Having a good experience" was also a key to Dewey's optimistic view of an ever-changing society. Unfortunately, I don't think that's quite true, but it's good to think that way.

Leonardo Cannizzaro sorry for my late reaction, thanks for your contribution.

Yes, of course, those who are able to learn good things for their future life from negative or bad experiences are well advised. But it is also a special gift to be able to think like that. First of all, it is important that the negative experiences you have had are not extremely bad, because then you will only live in fear, desperation and hopelessness. This can be your own compassion for other people, and it is good to be able to give comfort, hope and spirituality to others by being able to share your own good experiences. But we also know that when a mental break occurs - for example, the death of a loved one - the first reaction is grief - and this grief should not be suppressed, but lived out. A second - borderline experience is the melancholy (depression) that can afflict a person when he or she has bad experiences. Such people should find support in a community that supports them emotionally. Deep depression is unfortunately very difficult to cure. - But as a principle of life I would like to agree with you that it is always good to learn the best from bad experiences.

Ligen Yu

Thanks for your note on Stanley Wilkin. . I have a high regard for Stanley Wilkins, whom I know from many RG discussions. It is indeed important not to be distracted by external events from the will to continue research, even if you are at times perhaps desperate, no longer feel like it, or have had such a good experience in other areas (in love, in your career, in sport, in improving your own economic situation) that you think for a few moments about not wanting to be a scientist or researcher any more. I can very much support what you have quoted.

Best, Hein

Marcel-Marie LeBel

Thank you for this beautiful story, yes, sometimes it leads to success when even very active, doing good and can inspire others with this motivation. But I also know people who can achieve good effects on other people just by their social charisma, sympathy and kindness towards others. I would wish that there were more people of this kind.

Best, Hein

There is a small change for breakfast on Sunday compared to the other days: I don't just eat a slice of bread and drink a cup of coffee, I get an egg. This has been the case here for 55 years and has proven to be a good idea.

I hope the elaboration on experience will be read by more here as you address what I often struggle with, the one English word 'experience' to cover the two German words, and Danish (as I'm Danish) where we have the exact same. Erlebnis = oplevelse, Erfahrung = erfaring. While the etymologie of erfaring/Erfahrung will be the same, I believe the Danish oplevelse is a translation of the German, which, following Gadamer, appears in late 19th century (with first appearance as verb in Goethe's letters early 19th century). Ich hätte ja auch gern mine Antwort auf Deutsch geschrieben, aber wenn ich Deutsch lese, schreibe ich nicht - d.h. kann ich doch aber mit (zu) viele grammatische fehler.

I understand Erfahrung/erfaring has an element of moving away from one's origin, in that sense into the unknown/dangerous. The etymology of English experience relates (from Latin) to putting someting on trial, i.e. it has a learning element too. It more or less disappears in 18th, 19th century when it becomes psychological - hence closer to erleben. Also, Erfahrung is perhaps not always clear, depending on tradition. I like very much the philosopher Odo Marquard who suggests that Erfahrung is a veto from reality. I expect something to happen, reality tells me different, I then learn I was wrong and make an experience and become experienced. A Hegelian model in 'Kurzform' - one could also say this is the story of Goethe's Wilhelm Meister.

I think Dewey is aware of this and struggles with it - struggles also with the empiricist tradition he finds himself surrounded by. Erfahrung is a process - the expectation-veto-learning-becoming, and Dewey talks about an undergoing. In contrast to the natural science influenced experience as product, as fact-oriented. I'm not convinced Dewey is successful, perhaps this difficulty of only having experience and trying to include both learning and the psychological affection into it is what makes his use of experience ambiguous. It is appealing to English readers hoping for an experience of more cognitive content, but less appealing to me finding it fundamental to make the distinction between Erfahrung and Erlebnis. It was my motive for the original question - to come back to the question you posed - of what kind of good experience in everyday life. Is it an event-based, emotional, affective experience of Erlebnis? Or a 'reality-veto of learning that our knowledge is (painfully) limited to undergo a process and become more experienced/erfahren?

Is good experience to have a pleasant moment, perhaps rich with entertaining elements, a moment of relief? Or is good experience to become better informed and learn something?

I cannot help thinking of Brecht pointing out the dilemma: "emotional acting's effects on the nerves were a continual menace to the production's educational value. ...In other words, the greater the grip on the audience's nerves, the less chance there was of its learning. The more we induced the audience to identify its own experiences and feelings with the production, the less it learned; and the more there was to learn, the less the artistic enjoyment" (On experimental theatre). I thought your initial question invites for answering first which of these two sides will be the good experience.

Carsten Friberg

Aber das ist schön, Carsten, dass wir uns unterhalten können. Meine Tochter, jetzt schon Großmutter, lebt in Trondheim, ich lese natürlich auch Aftenposten online (wenn ich nichts zu tun habe), und meine liebe Frau liest viele norwegische Krimis im Original, Dänisch war, du weißt es besser, im 19. Jahrhundert die Amtssprache in Norwegen, dann gab's die große nationale Selbstbesinnung mit Nynorsk etc. Und der Mann meiner Tochter in Trondheim, ist eigntlich Däne, und mein ältestes Enkelkind, in Trondheim geboren, hat eine Nord-Schwedin geheiratet. Ich bin also gut vernetzt mit Skandinavien, familiär. Ich habe auch schon mal an der Universität in Trodnheim eine Woche Vorlesungen gehalten und an der Univ. Oslo (mit meinem Freund Hansjörg Hohr, der zuletzt in Oslo eine Professur hatte und Ästhetik-Experte ist (mit ihm habe ich ein Buch über Dewey geschrieben) ein Kolloquium über John Dewey mitgemacht, und einige internationale Forschungstreffen über Spielzeug in Skandinavien, da waren dann auch bekannte Dänen dabei. Kierkegaards Werke, die ich in Deutsch habe, - ich schätze ihn sehr - gibt es jetzt in einer neuen, sehr guten Übersetzung. Dänisch höre ich sehr gerne, ist aber keine geübte Sprache für mich, und fließend Norwegsch sprechen ist für einen Nicht-Norweger wie mich sowieso unmöglich, ohne dass manmich sogleich als Ausländer erkennt, egal ob man in Bergen oder im Tröndelag ist. In Dänemark war ich auch, aber in großen Abständen nur kurz, einmal hatte mich LEGO in Billund eingeladen für ein paar Tage, weil ich damals Spielzeug-Experte war und sie in den achtziger Jahren damals ihr neues LEGO-TECHNIK in Deutschland einführen wollte.

Also alles Gute für deine Arbeit, H.

P.S. Übrigens: dasselbe Problem - im Englisch nur ein Begriff, "Erziehung", hat im Deutschen (und in den skandinavischen Sprachen) zwei Begriffe, nämlich "Erziehung" und "Bildung" also neben obdragelse, dannelse. Darüber habe ich etwas geforscht. Und es ist sicher der Einfluss der deutschen Sprache (und kultureller Trends), der damals , ab dem 17. Jarhundert in Skandinavien - ebenso in Russland (hier vospitanie, obrazovanie) ebenfalls den Bildungsbegriff im pädagogischen Sinn entstehen ließ.

Carsten Friberg

That's a nice coincidence: you like Odo Marquard, and I studied with him, quote him often. I minored in philosophy when I took my doctorate with him,Univ. of Gießen 1967. He not only possessed immense knowledge, but he could formulate wonderfully, and always with a lot of humour and small contradictions in life to the extreme. I have also heard Adorno once, because he came to Giessen during the student revolt, where I was an assistant in educational science. He had a fabulous gift for formulating facts in a way that impressed. However, I was never clear whether this really was the truth or simply sounded good. The volume "Dialektik der Aufklärung" (written with Horkheimer) was at that time a cult book of the 68s.

Two things, one about education that could interest others, secondly the 'anecdotal'.

First, moving away from your initial question, but I take the opportunity to ask about education and the translation issue. It is for me very interesting how English and German differ in many concepts - especially in two ways, one is how the German (and the same with Danish) language combines words with meanings of practices clearly present in the concept which is not always the case in English. And often the metaphors of the langauge are in German spatial, in English they are, or have become, mental. Like imagination - from imago, vs. Vorstellung - ich stelle mich etwas vor. And what to do with Begriff? I reach out and catch/hold something (similar to a Stoic epistemology). And so on...

So, what to do with Bildung - or what do you do?

I use formation because it does capture the forming (and would also work with French). I see self-cultivation as alternative and while cultivation makes sense I'm unhappy about the self as it could be misinterpreted as an individual task (fitting into a psycholgocal and liberal agenda) - but cultivation is to become one of a common. Of course, an option is simply to use Bildung in the English text to emphasise it differs.

Anecdotal. When I was a studen in philosophy (in Odense) there was one day a guest lecture - which did not happen often, a German called Odo Marqurd. Unknown to me, so I got the only text of him from the library to prepare: Krise der Erwartung - Stunde der Erfahrung. He spoke - and here I learned how beautiful German could sound - about Ritter's aesthetics and the idea of compensation, and about the lectures in '48 that formed the Ritterschule. I learned Marquard later said the memory of Ritter's lectures were perhaps more interesting than Ritter's notes from the lectures - guess they are what has later been published as Vorlesungen zur Philosophischen Ästhetik.

I found Marquard very interesting (so I have now my collection of Marquard-in-Reclam), and also the approach to aesthetics - aesthetics has stayed with me since, though in different form, and my master's work then became about 'tradition and compensation' based on Marquard, Lübbe (I may be the only Dane to read him! - and I had a chance to experience him 20 years ago) and Oelmüller.

I love the way Marquard can phrase things in a simple and provocative way, one that can be read many times to discover new layers. And yes, a philosopher with a strong sense of complexity without the urge to reduce. Again, staying true to Hegelian legacy - we need to step away from complex matters to create an overview, to view things from the distance in theory keeping its Greek origin from theatre in mind, creating and overview to avoid getting lost in details. Now the job is to avoid loosing the sense for details by getting lost in abstraction (empirical science often do) - true phlosophy has to return to reality informed by the overview while also questioning it. After all, since Plato it has been about 'saving the phenomena'. But this step back to details is where many fails - and many misperceive philosophy to be an activity of abstraction only. Another reason for learning from philosophers like Marquard.

Carsten Friberg

yes, it's interesting about a philosopher who, for once, appreciates (I may be less fond of some others), then finds another perspective - experience, once again -. Thanks for that.(Die "Ritter-Schule" ist wiederum ein eigenes Thema, das mit den 68ern in Deutschland im Clinch lag.)

Hein,

Great question: For everyone of us (either consciously of unconsciously) address this everyday upon our awakening from sleep. As such "our mood" of a)good, b) bad, or c)neutral provides the initiation for the our individual day life cycle.

As such if I do not sleep well, the body does not heal well from the events of the previous day. For example: The brain (and hence one's "thoughts" must satisfy the dynamics of the heart). In other words, since the heart beat of the adult human is approximately 60 beats per minute (1 beat per sec) and the sleep frequency of the brain is also in this bandwidth. Lack of deep sleep effects the

day function of the human "thought process" for it is unable to be "reset". Hence

one's negative thought's may be attributable to "sleep". Thus one can be captured by the brain's previous WKDB (World Knowledge DataBase) of the previous day which is full of uncertainty and chaos.

Therefore for one to overcome this condition, self awareness must be achieved for if it is not, the likelihood of "stuckedness in negativism is likely to occur. Breaking of this cycle may be achieved through the understanding of dynamics of negativism. For example: if negativism is due lack of sleep, breaking the cycle of negativism may be possible by the stimulation of the 3 other brain frequencies necessary for the enjoyment of music, and art. These are provided in the table below:

Band Width

Cycles/Sec

13 ~ 30 Beta Wave ~ Alert State

8 ~ 12 Alpha Wave ~ Relaxed Wakefulness

4 ~ 7 Theta Wave ~ Imagery, Reverie

.1 ~ 3 Delta Wave ~ Deep Sleep

-------------------------------------------

A much simpler answer to your question is my personal experiences:

When awakening, and I find that I am in a bad mood, if the sun is shining it is difficult to remain in a bad mood provided that I allow it (the sunshine) into my "thought process". However, if it is cold and cloudy outside, I find it to be "justification " for my bad mood. In this case I must resort to "changing" (re-initialize) my environment by physical activity or mental activity to "restart" the "thought" process. This provides me with a new "pathway" for my day.

In addition, the older I get , I am also allowed the notion of my return to childhood.

For this statement is justified by acknowledging the fact that the "beginning = end". This is validated by the WKDB that "one starts out in diapers only to end up in diapers".In doing so, I am able to take on the notion of "pretending" once again such that I can enjoy Joseph Campbell's "Power of the Myth" and music such as that provided in:

Don't Worry be Happy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh4ugYiXF-Q

I Believe in Angels

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HMjOiHqE18

Sound of Silence

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9z87viDmOo

Thank you for such a great question.

Respectfully, Al Fermelia

Following

Avoiding watching Manchester United - most weeks it is dreadful.

The pragmatic aspects of education is certainly an investment on the health and happiness of a community. As John Dewey rightly observes, " Give the pupils something to do, not something to learn; and the doing is of such a nature as to demand thinking; learning naturally results.”

I feel that there are 2 simple things v may do:

1. We should always behave like a learner( open for learning without ego)

2. Each living being has a lesson to give an experiance to share. Feel it, Live it and learn from it would be something that I do

Dr. Anu Nagpal Chopra

Yeah, I agree. But under normal circumstances, our organism does that anyway. We all know the different ways of learning. When it comes to the exchange of experiences, especially in social terms, model learning, for example, is certainly an important way of learning. But rarely is our mental state such that we are also willing to learn from our opponents.

Neil Dagnall

a very interesting pedagogical approach, basic principle of the 100 years ago internationally known movement of the "New Education". Very good of you to mention him. But the problem remains that it doesn't help much to put children or adult students in a complex situation and say: "Have a good experience, make something of it! At least when it comes to a planned teaching/learning process that the curriculum requires, the teacher/adult has to prepare situations in such a way that the individual or the learning group can then learn. It is worth discussing this for a longer time, but I don't know if everyone is interested.

A good question provoking to think ! Quality of life can be improved by keeping in mind a few suggestions :

1. Attitude change : to look around us with hope, respect, love & care

2. Positive approach : to train 'the half glass full' view, taking away negativity

3. Forward march : to move steadfast without fear / worry

4. Being 'kind' : to take things gently giving allowance for failures / not doing well

5. Giving hand : to be sharing and caring