Meditation practices from India have attracted the interest of experimental neuroscience for many decades, with very interesting but also controversial and sometimes contradictory results. The leaders in these practices, like the Dalay Lama, have indicated their anti-dogmatism in relation to any (extra)ordinary claim of these practices. Have these occidental studies of meditation rescue appropriately the original Indian techniques ?
Some researchers indicate that the results of these studies should not be misconstrued as therapeutic effects. They should not be taken as evidence for truly therapeutic effectiveness...Recent results suggest that there is not clear positive effects on mindful breath awareness practice, for instance (Schöne B, Gruber T, Graetz S, Bernhof M, Malinowski P 2018 "Mindful breath awareness meditation facilitates efficiency gains in brain networks: A steady-state visually evoked potentials study" Sci Rep. Sep 12;8(1):13687. doi: 10.1038/s41598-018-32046-5).
If there are important issues in this remarkable and ancient introspective effort of India, what should be the correct way to study meditation by neuroscientists?
link Article Mindful breath awareness meditation facilitates efficiency g...
Read my essay "Brahman's Dream" posted online by IJoDR University Heidelberg, Germany. The NDE of Pam Reynolds shows that Hinduism (Vedanta, Upanishads) really understands the human state. Regards, Kurt
Mindfulness is more of exercise than meditation. The objective of meditation (esp. as per its origin in India) is not to solve health related issues only. It is more than that. The meditationist attempts to experience the core inner self and beyond. The other benefits may be the byproduct. It can be because of the protocols followed.
If neuro-scientists have to study its benefits using third person methodology, the investigators and co-investigators can subject themselves to the experiment. The most reliable instrument to measure effect of meditation can be the meditationist himself. One such study (I was one of the co-investigator) was conducted at a laboratory IGCAR, Kalpakam, India. Here the experimenters practiced meditation and followed the protocols of experiment (in this case, abstinence from alcohol, non-vegetarian food).
Further, the integration of first and third person approach can yield better results which was done in this study. The results and other details of the study can be found at
http://www.dayalbagh.org.in/specialTalks/visiontalkTSC2013.htm
What food is that? Meat? Abstinence from alcohol instead of abstinence from killing?
It means not drinking alcohol and not eating non vegetarian food. Eating only vegetarian food. Eating vegetarian food does not mean killing.
Thank you for your kind participation and interesting answers.
The Indian contribution to occident has been very important in regard to ethical values (compassion for those who suffer, high respect for animals) and philosophical issues (e.g. elaborated ideas about possible mechanism of the mind). Evidence of unique results in cardiorespiratory and muscular control has been well-documented by occidental scientific journals.
However, the subjective phenomenology is still very hard to study, specially using MEG (magnetoencephalography), which is a very expensive and difficult to use equipment. You mention the experimental studies done at the Indira Gandhi Centre for Atomic Research (IGCAR https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indira_Gandhi_Centre_for_Atomic_Research http://www.igcar.gov.in/msg/) at Kalpakkam in early November 2012 using MEG. Very sophisticated hardware/software (a properly shielded chamber, procedures for shielding noise) is required, as you know. I wonder if...
1. Have these studies been replicated by occidental laboratories?
2. If they have, can alternative interpretations of the results be possible? In other words...
3. ¿is there an objective way to be sure that "the experience of the core inner self" is not another type of experience? Also...
4. ¿is there any University or Institution in north India doing now EEG, MEG, EMG or fMRI studies on Meditation?
Thank you in advance...
There is one case that vouches for the Hindu view of life after death and the chakras. I have described it in my essay "Brahman's Dream", published by IJoDR Heidelberg University, Germany. The testimonial is based on the operation on Pam Reynolds which required the cooling and draining of all blood of the patient and stopping all sings of life: no heart beat, no breath, no brain activity! The patient's etheric body (soul) left the coarse body of flesh and blood through the top of the head, the Sahasrara Chakra! The etheric of the patient travelled through a dark 'tunnel' to arrive in the land of light and bliss meeting up with relatives that had gone before the patient. This brilliant and daring procedure was accomplished by Dr. Spetzler. Check it online: NDE of Pam Reynolds.
EEG and MEG based studies on Meditation are conducted at Centre for Consciousness Studies, Dayalbagh Educational Institute. The results are presented in International Conference - The Science of Consciousness (2012 onward). It is organized every year by Centre for Consciousness Studies, Arizona State University. Also, in the pre-conference workshop - Integrated East West Forum of same conference, researchers from neuro- science, cognitive science, philosophy, etc. present their papers followed by panel discussion.
If it done under competent guidance it is better than anything else! I say again: read my Brahman's Dream.
Thank you very much for the comments. There are probably many social and cultural conditions at both sides (west and east) that make difficult to integrate both traditions. But, as Sona indicated, there is some advances as "the International Conference -The Science of Consciousness" or, here in South America, the studies of Francisco Varela in neurophenomenology (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurophenomenology).
I am not sure if the solution is in the middle or even if there is one. For now, we can describe this in a way accessible to both traditions in anthropological, cultural and/or neuro-phenomenological terms. The subjective part (perhaps the more important one?, not sure) is still a personal, philosophical or, if you want, art-related issue.
Kurt, I do not know what to say...After trying to find some empirical evidence when I was adolescent, I could not find personal confirmation that "spiritual phenomena" can give us information about the world, so I preferred to follow the more traditional scientific method. But this is only a "personal report", apparently supporting other more elaborated studies in prestigious journals about psychical phenomena that have given negative results. But it is possible that some "conditions" (bias?) have played a role in this.
In any case, it seems that some hard-core concepts of psychology (ideas of William James, Jung etc) are inspired in Indian concepts of the mind although occident does not want to recognize that clearly (maybe because "spiritualism" is strongly penalized in hard-core science). Time and evidence will tell...
When it comes to spiritual practices we are in the hands of SPIRIT. We either trust it or not. In any case DOING is better than speculating endlessly.
See our related Project
Breathing rhythm, body posture, slow physical exercises and introspective techniques: interactions with chronic pain and biomechanics.
Goal: Goals: In this independent, full-free project, (1) we will study theoretically and empirically how chronic pain can be affected by the way we breath and move our body. Conversely, (2) we will study how chronic pain can modulate our movements, breathing patterns and cognitive processes. SPANISH: En este proyecto independiente, totalmente libre, estudiaremos de forma teórica y empírica cómo el dolor crónico puede verse afectado por la forma en que respiramos y movemos nuestro cuerpo. A la inversa, estudiaremos cómo el dolor crónico puede modular nuestros movimientos, patrones de respiración y procesos cognitivos. Related/previous work: Gomez-M JF 2014 Chrono-rehabilitation in Multiple Sclerosis. Short Presentation. Meeting with ALEM, Multiple sclerosis Association Medical School. CES University, Colombia. 2014. See researchgate.net
Date: 13 July 2018
https://www.researchgate.net/project/Breathing-rhythm-body-posture-slow-physical-exercises-and-introspective-techniques-interactions-with-chronic-pain-and-biomechanics-SPANISH-Ritmo-respiratorio-postura-corporal-ejercicios-fisicos-l
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