Nowadays, the role of faculty members gets bigger: professors are not only supposed to teach classes and conduct research. They also raise new generations of scientists from their graduate students. On this way, they not only mentor them from research point of view, but additionally provide a lot of extra help, like proofreading students' theses, correcting wording in papers, etc. Some institutions seem to try to unload faculty from these duties by implementing special classes on technical writing and communication skills.
What is your opinion about this situation? Is it professors' part of the job to be teachers of scientific language or should we shift this load to specific course instructors?
I think that reading theses and indicating areas that need to be corrected are part of a supervisor's duties. But it's for the student to correct his /her own errors. It's too much to expect the supervisor to correct our errors for us. A PhD is an award for being able to think and express our thoughts correctly, so tthat we may be understood.
Dear Pavel,
It depends on the number of your classes you teach. Besides, who has time and energy for such additional tasks?
See also comment of Abdalla!
I have heard of a university educator who cleaned the rooms after seminars.
Pavel, my opinion is scientific language could be an "incidental" job for a professor. While it is fun and educational to proof read, it is time-consuming and eye-tiring (especially to guys like me who are not getting younger). When I proof read, I do sampling of relevant pages/chapters of the manuscript and on the basis of such, advise the student on what reference on technical writing to refer to.
University lecturers provide coaching in scientific writing at least during writing of papers and/or theses!
Dear Pavel,
I believe in resreach universities, teaching scientific language is not part of the professors' job, and teaching should be shifted to specific course instructors.
Dear Abdalla El-Mowafy,
This is a witty bon mot but after a limit it does not work.
There is a Hungarian saying: even the attic is full with good propositions.
@Pavel, I agree with most of comments that teaching so called scientific language should not be a part for many reasons. In some other thread I placed a comment which was not observed. I have proposed that ACADEMIC/SCIENTIFIC WRITING SHOULD BE AN OBLIGATORY SUBJECT , taught by professionals!
Not only should they teach it, but they should probably take the class again! However, I think the teaching they should do should focus on their knowledge of writing process, not technicalities like grammars and tables, but rather on their immense experience. E.g. effective ways to present big results, visualisations, what reviewers will say, etc. Five minutes of that can change a career, let alone the occasional lecture, even if just storytelling.
Dear All,
When delivering my habilitation lecture I was penalized by the scientific jury because I used some pictures with German and English text - which were certainly immediately explained. The jury wrote in its opinion I ignored the ability limits of students. Of course, it does not matter for me…
@LJ:I agree with your views about Scientific writing
@AE-M: I liked your views that instead of teaching scientific writing, Professors can opt selectively to be a mentor or guide for some good students..
I am more concerned about the fact that the new generation does not like to work hard, otherwise, reading (research papers/reviews) is the best exercise to master scientific writing, professionally.
Every semester should have a course on scientific writing, wherein students should be asked to give a presentation based on some research paper/s or reviews in the area of interest..
Dear all,
Thank you very much for your answers - we have a nice discussion here!
@ András, I agree with your point that primary teaching and research should be the first priorities for faculty, especially young faculty, I think. At this time of their career it is usual that they have one (or two, at most) students to work with, sometimes even undergraduates. In this situation, they should spend some extra time with these students in order to help them to see the area of interest from a perspective of this exact professor - that's what I understand by their efforts to correct some students writing, etc. Further, this new faculty will gain more experience and will be able to take more students, and the situation repeats. At this point I agree with Abdalla that professors are responsible for the students in all ways that are related to the science!
At the same time, however, I believe in the necessity of those special courses on academic and scientific writing that should be offered in undergraduate program. These classes can generally prepare students for their future part of being scientists - how to look for references, how to make good conclusions, how to right bright abstracts and so on. Later, this general knowledge should be reinforced by an advisor in a specific direction.
I concur with Prof. Abdalla. Why entrust our advanced students to other minds when we as their main mentors know their thinking the best? I never minded helping doctoral students revise thesis chapters as long as the thinking was theirs alone. I viewed advising as a tennis match: I as advisor would lob a stimulus over the net, and the student would hit it back in his own direction. I would then respond by refining his aim, and he in turn would hit it back with his full strength. No room for a third player!
Nelson,
I agree with you. In my case, the issue is whether to show my students how to use LaTeX to write articles and reports. I decided that including notes on LaTeX in my teaching helped a great deal.
What if someone (like me) had studied abroad and had never learned academic language ? My BA was acting and that in German;hence I had never been exposed to academic language neither in Turkish nor in German in my whole life !Let alone academic language, I had never written "one high school essay" since my high school was a scientific one ! The very first essay I wrote in my life was the one I had to write for MELAB test to enter UBC's Master's program. Thank God, I had learned some of the rules while teaching ESL !!!, which is still not a source of academic language.. What now ?
@LT: A suggestion
Read research papers published in good journals in your area of interest [20 research papers minimum]. Learn Reference Manager/EndNote and MS-Word, develop database on a topic of your choice, Design the contents of your review article and try to write a draft review in 15 days time {Max]. With this use of IT you can slowly master the scientific writing technique. Need further help please do write to me on [email protected]
6 Recommendations
2nd Feb, 2014
Pavel M. Polunin
SiTime Corporation
@ Prof. Ravi Sharma,
Thank you very much for your idea - it seems to be a sound way of self-training on scientific writing!
6 Recommendations
2nd Feb, 2014
Marwan M. Obeidat
Hashemite University
Of course, Pavel. This is what an educator is all about.
7 Recommendations
2nd Feb, 2014
Prof. Ravi K. Sharma
Central Drug Research Institute
@PP: Actually writing scientific matter, particularly a review, is an art/technique, I have been teaching this since last 10 years. It works.
7 Recommendations
Deleted profile
I think one of our main duties is to revise the thesis and manuscripts of our students and to guide them through the process of academic scientific writing
9 Recommendations
2nd Feb, 2014
Leyla Tekul
University of British Columbia - Vancouver
The problem is I am not a reader either. I am a real Biblio- phobic :) Reading is another torture for me (despite my hunger for knowledge, which still keeps me reading )even a bigger one than writing. However, I am teaching my students the necessity of reading for writing ( I am also teaching academic writing and even do my assignments properly, can you imagine ? :) So far scanning -skimming helped me with all. I wish I could really "read" :( to write better. I am a creative writer, song writer, and used to be a columnist and advertisement copywriter though. I think that have been helping me with academia a bit.
5 Recommendations
2nd Feb, 2014
Nelson Orringer
University of Connecticut
Leyla, a bibliophobe and a researcher! Almost a contradiction! Have you had your eyes checked recently? Sometimes that is the cause.
Literature requires deep reading: you need to savor every word. If you can´t read them all, you lose much. But you know all this. Check with your advisor for a good ophthalmologist. Any researcher worth his salt has one. In Vancouver you will surely find one.
7 Recommendations
2nd Feb, 2014
Leyla Tekul
University of British Columbia - Vancouver
I have always had very good eyes, still have :)I always hated reading and anything printed, no dyslexia nothing. Coming from a 'book worm academic family on top of it. Even my son is a book worm and has two master degrees and still continuing.I just don't like printed words, I am reading people , watching, observing and when I grew up, even our family dinners were like workshops and lectures. I am still "eating" from that storage I guess. When I was small (3 yrs old) I was playing 'fluently " piano but rejecting to look at the score, and just trying to find the tones by my ear, and /or ilstening to my piano teacher and just copying right away (absolute ear) I am 56, have been wearing glasses only for 3 years. Its psychological. I feel like diving in deep dark blue waters or a tsunami swallowing me when I see any thick book :) I won't change after that age I guess. I was still able to read my articles for my studies and brought a couple of A+ es so far. I am just a weird case, I gues, a bohemian in academia :D I know it is a shame ! but I am just being honest :(
3 Recommendations
2nd Feb, 2014
Darasingh Shyoran
Rajasthan State Pollution Control Board, Jaipur, Rajasthan
@Pavel definitely yes.
4 Recommendations
2nd Feb, 2014
Leyla Tekul
University of British Columbia - Vancouver
Long story short, I might not be the only case with academic illiteracy and I think professors, should show the way to better performance in writing and/or presenting skills in academia. My professors at UBC were able to make me, the non-reader, motivate and do my tasks, and I have been able as IELTS and Business English teacher, to help my students (80% of which don't like reading at all) with their reading and writing tasks. Let's not forget that liguistic skills are not evenly distributed. Someone who is a 'book worm' might need help with oral expression abilities and vice and versa.
3 Recommendations
2nd Feb, 2014
Nelson Orringer
University of Connecticut
This Is true, Leila: a rare case. But I am glad you are in academics. You certainly are a motivator of others.
I have never felt that a professor is too high to teach scientific writing and language. That is our duty. To do any less would be to undercut the basis for our professional being. We should not feel high-and-mighty under any professional circumstances.
7 Recommendations
2nd Feb, 2014
Leyla Tekul
University of British Columbia - Vancouver
Yes, Nelson, absolutely. I am always telling my students (although I am far away from being a prof for sure) that I am not their master, rather a 'server' and serving my experience and knowledge while also learning from them. By the way, I get never tired reading and participating on Research Gate, following my smart colleagues' and peers' comments. It would ceertainly be different if that entire material were published as a "hard cover book " :)))))))) Thank you for your encouragement.
4 Recommendations
3rd Mar, 2014
Nelson Orringer
University of Connecticut
Leyla, now I too (like you) am far away from being a (teaching) professor, having retired a decade ago, although still giving occasional lectures and directing occasional Ph.D. theses. And yes, I am teaching scientific writing and language to my thesis advisees at present. In addition, if colleagues teaching right now need me to look over their manuscripts before publishing, I give them pointers too. But I have lots to learn and, like you, consider myself a "server," not a "master."
7 Recommendations
3rd Mar, 2014
Leyla Tekul
University of British Columbia - Vancouver
Still, I wish you lived in my neighborhood, especially in times like this weekend . I will have to write two assignments and "read" them on top of it. Proof reading !! Another pain in the..brain :) I am writing like Niagara falls, like I am talking, starting and finishing !! No drafts no re-writing God forbid :) Our profs were saying that one needs to have peers or relatives/friends to check one's assignments, since you do not read your mistake. In your brain you read it like you THINK you wrote it for sure. And I do not have anybody in this continent to share my writings, another pair of eyes which are more experienced and knowledgeable. So far I survived though :)
3 Recommendations
3rd Mar, 2014
Prof. Ravi K. Sharma
Central Drug Research Institute
@Leyla: Sorry for interfering your interesting communications. But one thing for SURE. You are a very good writer. Definitely you do not need a DRAFT.. Seems you are able to write in first go itself. God Bless you.
4 Recommendations
3rd Mar, 2014
Nelson Orringer
University of Connecticut
Leyla, I agree with Prof. Sharma. If a pro like him endorses your writing style, I have no choice but to concur. Proof reading-- ugh! A writer can never discover all his own mistakes. Better to have someone else read the text too. Even then, some errors escape notice. I just published a book with Toronto Press, and although I corrected proofs three times and had three editors look over my text, I am discovering a few tiny mistakes that I hope my reviewers don´t catch!
5 Recommendations
3rd Mar, 2014
Prof. Ravi K. Sharma
Central Drug Research Institute
@NO
I never share my write-ups/MS or presentations for proof read/correction. You may laugh at me, but I am going to share with you my style of proof reading. When I finish some manuscript/presentation and then I put it (print copy or soft copy) underneath my pillow for 4-5 days. Some times, I get dreams how to best present my thoughts. And then on 6th day I read it as if it is written by some other person, as it is easier to find MANY mistakes in others work. That is all.
4 Recommendations
3rd Mar, 2014
Leyla Tekul
University of British Columbia - Vancouver
Well, what an ecouragement on an "assignment writing" day : I wish , multimodality, which we learn, discuss, research and write about so crazily in Language and Literacy department in here, would find its way through adademia one day.Having been a professional MC /actor and public speaking teacher, I would like to 'present' my assignments orally. Recently I presented (using just ppt) a research project related to "brain activity while humorous discourse." It was a neuro-scientific research which was km's away from my field ! I got an A+ for this presentation. However, an easy (er) task like an "article review" might live me with stupid mistakes such as wrong article, unnecessary and's commas, etc. and might lower my mark , just because of my fight with letters and printed material ! I am hoping to be able to" sing" my assignments one day :)))))) Well, kind of .... :)
4 Recommendations
3rd Mar, 2014
Nelson Orringer
University of Connecticut
Leyla, I do hope you get to sing your "aria" someday.
Prof. Ravi, I don´t give my writings absolute importance, so I don´t find them dreamworthy. Yours emerge as flawless jewels, mine as mere earthenware.
5 Recommendations
3rd Mar, 2014
Vijay Kumar
Seth Motilal (P.G.) College
Yes
4 Recommendations
3rd Mar, 2014
Ufuk Turen
Yes, professors must support and participate in students' process of research, academic writing and publishing. With this support it is quite difficult for a student to accomplish but not impossible. Professor -student symbiosis is good.
2 Recommendations
3rd Mar, 2014
Ljubomir Jacić
Technical College Požarevac
I have not changed my opinion on this subject. I recommend the following article that can help you in writing a scientific paper. Yes, "Using the English language to successfully communicate scientific findings does not come easily to most people. Choosing the correct words and using correct grammar are skillsnow rarely taught in schools, so many University students are at some disadvantage."
http://sydney.edu.au/science/biology/learning/generic_skills/Scientific_Writing.pdf
3 Recommendations
Deleted profile
Hi Pavel
A graduate students should master the language of study. If they don't have a working knowledge of English they will not be up to date in their research field since most good publications are in English. Now for courses they should master the language used by their University.
Now professors are not suppose to write the students thesis, and by the way a professor cannot do simultaneously 6 or 7 Ph.D.s. Since manuscripts are now accepted in thesis so if a professor write a manuscript for a student so he is writing his thesis.
So if a student does not master a language he should start his graduate studies by taking intensive language courses.
Kind regards
1 Recommendation
3rd Mar, 2015
Ljubomir Jacić
Technical College Požarevac
Dear @Hani, I do agree with your statements. English should be prerequisite for graduate students! English Proficiency Requirements are given for some graduate schools.
http://graduateschool.ufl.edu/admission/additional-requirements-for-international-applicants
https://grad.ucla.edu/gasaa/admissions/ENGREQ.HTM
http://www.grad.illinois.edu/admissions/instructions/04c
1 Recommendation
5th May, 2017
Premkumar Elangovan
Royal Surrey County NHS Foundation Trust
Have a look at REF-N-WRITE scientific paper writing tool. This tool allows you to import text from previous papers relevant to the subject area in MS word. While you are writing your paper, you can just search for similar statements from other authors and inherit their vocabulary and language to improve your paper. It also comes with a library of academic phrases that you can readily use to polish your paper. Here is the link for the site.
http://www.ref-n-write.com
They have some nice tutorials here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qf7qyyKtbyQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6hlXzqO3r4
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