Reservation of government jobs for persons identified on the basis of caste is in violation of the constitutional provision of equality. It creates state-sponsored class divide. The benefits go to those of the specified castes who are rich and can have good education. If there be reservation system at all, it should be based on economic criterion and that for the lower categories of jobs. Admissions in Govt colleges and universities on the basis of caste only produce inefficient teachers, engineers and doctors. They earn degrees years after the regular programme period.  Managerial jobs are snatched by the SC, ST & OBC persons who are qualitatively below standard. This means greater inefficiency in the government functionality which is  to move fast ahead. The system should go. 62%  reservation means the Government machinery is weak or sick to that extent. Such machinery requires to be condemned as obsolete and cast aside as junk.

Sibaprasad Dutta

Dear colleagues, I believe that jobs should go to anyone based on meritocracy AND THE ABILITY TO DELIVER.  If the OBCs are able to deliver good services, it should go to them.  Jobs must not be based on who you are, who you know or what rich family you come from.  Anything besides MERITOCRACY may not be sustainable in the long run.  Everyone from whatever caste can equip themselves and discipline themselves to do a good job.  (But if there is always a certain percentage designated for a certain group of persons, certain people will take life easy and relax, while others have to slog.  This is happening in many places, perhaps India as well.)

Dear Barbara , you have truly articulated the logic of this reservation for the deprived and powerless. The idea is social justice  and taking these socially and educationally backward communities along with the main stream. To juxtapose the efficiency argument while deciding their fate is to perpetuate the status quo. Of course, how to prevent the misuse of the system is a big question, which is what is very difficult to ensure. And, there are definitely cases of misuse and contradictions which is what leads to violence by other communities. 

I am sure there are such classes and communities in other countries and societies as well, which need preferential treatment and state support in the interest of fairness and  social justice.  

For me, I normally say, we should give chances all the students without thinking of the caste though I am SEBC student. 

Dear Barbara, If the situation and the social undercurrents were exactly as you describe, then it would appear logical and social justice to preserve the reservation policy status quo.

But it is not a very simple calculation as we expect!  just a skeleton i can mention here. (Being a public servant and employee of the Government of India it took me almost 2 years to understand the concept completely), I am neither for or against the policy of the Government. It is a Government Policy and we as public servants do our best to regard it!

 The reservation policy in Government of India jobs are given under  the following section/categories.

1. General / Unreserved - 50.5 %

2. OBC - Other Backward Classes - 27 %

3. Scheduled Caste  - 15 %

4. Scheduled Tribe - 7.5%

4. Persons with Physical Disability - 3% horizontal reservation in all categories

The implementation of the reservation system is not exactly as the percentage mentioned above.

The General/Unreserved - 50.5 % is for all - anyone from any of the category can be selected in this category.

For example for appointment to 100 posts and from a  merit list of 500 candidates, the first 50 irrespective of their category gets selected for the posts AS GEN/UR !

Then the next 51 - 78 - Only OBC candidates are eligible for selection

Then 78 - 100 - are meant for SC/ST candidates

The Outcome could be - There are merit lists or selected lists which consists of more than 35 candidates who belongs to OBC,SC or ST in the first 50 which was originally meant for UR/Gen and in adddition to that, the reservation quota 51 - 100 for OBC, SC & ST will be given to their own category candidates as 27% and 15% and 7.5 % respectievely

Hence it is presumed that the General Category (candidates who do not have any kind of reservation quota), the chances of selection comes down very drastically.

I think this is the first reason for the disagreement among certain section regarding the reservation policy.

Another very important factor is, the economic status of the population is NOT caste or quota based! There are same percentage of economically backward classes available in the reserved classes as well as unreserved or general classes.

For Example, a High ranking Government Official who belongs to SC/ST/OBC will have the benefit of the reservation for their children for admission to university or for Job. Whereas a low income persome / family who belongs to general category / unreserved classes and belongs to economically backward strats WILL NOT get the benefit of reservation as the present policy of reservation is based on caste system and NOT economic status based. reservation policy was meant to address the economic inequality among the population and hence in today's date it assumed by the critics that the same purpose is not served!

( The initial official caste based reservation policy was dome in 1882 by Hunter Commission and then in 1933 by Ramsay Macdonald who called it Communal Award ( the reservation remained caste based ever since). Although Mahatma Gandhi was against the caste based reservation system (and even fasted against it) , on persuasion of Dr.B.R Ambedkar Gandhiji relented. In late 1980s Government of India pushed the reservation (for government jobs) policy bill in parliament in response to the Mandal Commission report which was based on the already existing system of caste based reservation. For making the report, Mandal Commission might have found it easier to use the already existing caste based reservation policy rather than waiting for a decade to generate a financial status report and then make a reservation policy. (remember it was the 1980s and digital data was not available as it is now in India.)

regards

rathish

Dear Debi, thanks for the invitation and for the question. In my country in fact there is sometimes a provision of jobs in the top level of administration for the friends when some (?) political parties occupy the power. It is known as: “Jobs for the boys” or “dance of chairs”. Of course that there are serious persons in politics too. However, I suspect that generically if the persons would exercise the political power just for serving the others very few persons wanted to be there.

The social problems were all man made, politics added flavor to it. But in India, social classifications still exists in society, hence the oppressed class needs to be supported.

"The so-called superior or upper caste people prevent marriages between the lower and higher castes by even going to the extent of killing such couples. The higher caste people treat the lower caste people as untouchables and do not allow them to engage in decent jobs to earn their living. The lower castes are often forced to do only menial and demeaning jobs like scavenging and sweeping. They subject the lower castes to inhuman treatments like the raping the lower caste (Dalit) women and parading them naked and sometimes even forcing them to eat human excreta for minor faults. "

http://www.refworld.org/docid/440ed70c29.html

Dear Krishnan, I fully agree with what you have said; catching  the pulse of the problem. I remember, some years ago, my younger son said to me that they had  an ST teacher in his college, and no one attended his classes; he is the worst. He was there due to the reservation policy.  I told him, "You have  exploited them for a long time; now you suffer for that till the social uplifting  can bring them to your level. It may take few generations for that to happen." Now, he is a fierce supporter of reservation for the less powerful in the Indian context. of course, there are some strong arguments for providing for similar arrangements for poor among the higher castes, which must be provided by amending the Constitution..

We have affirmative action pertaining to minorities and gender in the United States. This is usually in universities and employees of companies holding government contracts, but also can be a percentage of minority-owned contracting companies. Recently, many of our affirmative action mandates have been moderated or dismissed by the government or the courts.

This is particularly true concerning college entrance acceptance. Many universities were accepting 2.5-3.5 GPA students of minority over non-minority students with 4.0 GPA. It has been seen in government jobs too, where people with more credentials and longer employment have been passed over for promotion in favor of a minority worker with less credentials and shorter employment. This has been called reverse discrimination in the U.S..

Many people here believe that jobs and college acceptance should be based on merit, e.g. those with the best qualifications regardless of ethnicity or gender. I too believe that those people who show more initiative, that score higher on tests, that have more experience, that have more knowledge, should be recognized and not shunted away in favor of somebody of less acumen and prowess.

Dear Debi,

In Canada the job market and the government jobs are relatively fair for everyone based on merit but some groups such as the first nations because of historical segregation and racial policies are still today living in third world conditions.  Although today the society is more open to them, very few can finish high school level of education.  In a city like Winnipeg, the probability of a young male native to finish high school are lower than the probability that he will be jailed.  So even if today the society is open, the deep damages of the past do not heal easily.

Dear all,

an important and crucial issue it is !

Actually problem lies while explaining the category. Though the provision of creamy layer is their, but due to political reasons stronger communities have been included in the list of OBCs and communities, are really suppressed rarely take the advantage of  reservation. So until the it will a political issue rather than a legal issue, the situation will remain same. We have to face this kind of violent aggetations by powerful communities, like Patidars in Gujrat, Gurjars in Rajasthan and Jats in Hariyana and adjoining state.

Merit must prevail ..... if we want to see the nation as developed one!

Unfortunately, in our great country India, the reservation exists on caste basis, which I feel, is discriminatory and harmful to social integration.  Instead, reservation must be provided to the socially and economically backward people, identified based on development index and not on caste, and may be categorized as socially and economically backward group ( SEBG ). Only one such reservation category may exist for a certain period of time. The ancient Indian system of division of labor took the ugly shape of caste, which had continuously been used by vested interest groups for social engineering, which is a threat to social integration. In a civilized world, there should not be any discrimination on any basis.  There is no denial that upliftment of socially and economically back ward group, is the prime responsibility of any government, but a prudent approach is the need of the day. God created all human beings as same. No body has any right to discriminate. The very existence of caste system is a poor reflection of Indian society and we all must be very sad about it.

I agree with the statement  of Dr Krishnan Umachandran, Still today OBC commnities are struggling for their  livelihood or daily bread in villages. From years onward these people are doing slavery in house holds of the higher communities, doing the agricultural works in their fields, monitoring their cattle as a cow boys. Only during the recent years they are going to schools for education. Can  a poor man get job easily in  these present conditions. I agree with the Dr Miranda's words, but one should understand the social and financial back ground of these communities. while going for education, in schools and colleges they feel inferiority in their dress code and several many issues when comparing  with other communities. Treatment  of the teaching staff also different with these students in rural regions of India. Teachers some times sarcastically commenting the students in different aspects.   There is creamy layer in OBCs, so rich people in these communities are not eligible for the reservation. But people in these communities need such a privilege for their uplift, otherwise only few persons gets jobs. Further, this facility should be implemented to the poor of Upper communities also.

Kulshreshtha, Narasimha Rao and Duttagupta have said it all. I am completely with them. This reservation policy is not going to lead us anywhere.

The political class in India has made the situation much worst in recent time. Though, exploitation in the name of reservation continues but I hardly see any change in that. Just read an article that only 3 percent of Muslims in Bengal have an income of Rs 15000 pm. The data is generated by Amartya Sen's NGO. Be it Muslim,  dalit or OBCS, the ground realities remain same. No much change in their status. Only stronger layers of these classes get benefit for which they qualify otherwise. The political culture and corrupt climate reinforce such binding. Best luck India! 

"A human being said "I'm Russian", and God cried with him".There is no career if you haven't an influential uncle in our city.You must know your place.Your achievements don't matter,if you are a "human being from the street" "Unknown"by Kramskoy

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9D%D0%B5%D0%B8%D0%B7%D0%B2%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%8F_(%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B0)

Vedas don't believe in caste by birth but supreme Court does. If we can fix this there will be balance both in social and professional life.

Dear readers,

I generally disagree in these types of solutions to social inequalities. It does help a few to get into the middle class that otherwise would not. But there is a very high social cost associated with theses ''positive discrimitions'' practices. It re-inforced the class/cast mentallity since competences is subordinated to tribalism even if here it is a reverse tribalism. Direct or reverse tribalism remains tribalism and triumph. How to fight tribalism? By providing egalitarian social support to quality education on a non tribalistic base and only consider merit. Again who consider merit should be not be doing an insiduous tribalist behind the scene and here very high standard of transparency and harch measures of corruption conttrol be established and continually clean up of corruption themself.

Regards,

- Louis

@louis, ever heard about phylumbaji and xylumbaji in Indian institution? Your solution will never work.

Reservation as a policy is good in a way, because it enable the less fortunate to rise up to the level of the fortunate ones.

It is not good because it will create a gap, hatred, deception, lies and falsification of document or credentials and even tribalism.