The concept of 'time' and its relation to the living experience was discussed in detail by the ancient Greeks, medieval and renaissance scholars, 16th-19th century scientists and philosophers, and modern scholars such as Bergson, Einstein, Husserl, Heidegger, Deleuz and their students/followers. Unfortunately, the consequences of WWII caused much of these discussions to disappear from the scholarly awareness. When looking into the awareness of time, we need to start with the structures of the meaning of the concept and trace them back to their histrical origins. This is a historical-cultural quest that must be taken individually as it requires the reduction/bracketing of one's own and socially-inherited experiences. Here are a few cues to lead you toward finding your answer. Time, like space, is merely an objectification of the void between spatiotemporally-extended objects - in the case of time, the duration between consciously/subconsciously discernible events of environmental/situational change. This means that if you can't be aware of any change, you can't have any experience of what people call time. The abovementioned works and the infamous McGill experiments confirm that and more. There is a conflicting feeling of difference in the human awareness of 'time' when experiencing simulateneously natural life events and a representation of scientifically-measured 'time' using instruments that stems from the above mentioned and might have triggered your question. I recognize that this short note may raise more questions than answers but believe that is the best contribution I can provide at this point. Maybe one day I'll have some time to edit my unpublished papers into an article or as a part of a book.

Tremendous impression! I have a real solution of my rather provoked question. You have won my and, I believe, general applause. I admit your brilliant conception. Thank you, Martin. Are you sure that this solution is a single one ?

Could it be that as we age, we seem to slow down? Or because we become more aware of the time factor? As a child, one is so busy discovering the new and so busy with all the fun stuff that we don't really pay attention to time, is it not? As we get older, we burden ourselves with what "has to" get done, what we "want to achieve", what we "should be" doing.

OK, Anders. Your approach is original, as well as, probably, real one. May we propose quantization of time here?

You are right, Doris. We all were very happy in our childhood.

Very interesting! Hello Everyone! Martin, you are talking about the 'now'. i try to operationalize a 'positive' relation to the now (predicted to be connected to eudaimonic happiness), combining the psychological concepts of 'mindfulness' and 'flow'. Mindfulness is kind of the psychology of the now and flow is referred to as a state of 'optimal functioning'. I also agree that the perceived 'length' of the now becomes shorter with life, but probably when you are very old, you're now-perception slows down again, and maybe that relates to the subjective(?) notion that sometimes people tend to interact with old people as if they were children(?).

I'm just beginning reading Husserl. The concept of 'Intentionality" is very interesting. The consciousness and the perceived phenomenon engage in one context (totality). perceiving is giving meaning to the perceived object. But how can we establish such intense emotional relations to concepts abstract as 'the past', 'the future' or even 'the now'?

Dealing with the now scientifically is quite paradoxical i guess, since the paradigm of science presupposes the belief in the possible existence of 'objectivity'. However, the now is by definition a subjective phenomenon. Plus maybe the whole time-concept is just our creation. Maybe Einstein and Eastern psychologies like Buddhism are right and time is an 'illusion'.

Not all were happy in their childhood, however, we were very definitely in the now, and not yet so much preconditioned and reactive to past or future events. The now , I believe, has no time frame.Every moment is a new now. As Allan Watts said.."you are not the same person as you were a moment ago" Personally, I believe time (clock time) as we know it, is a human construct. As humans, we try to be efficient, organized and put everything of this reality into a peg hole, for our better understanding, communicating and relating. On the other hand, God's time is eternal...and for everything there is a season. Being mindful is a doorway to God's time. When we get very old, yes, the now slows down. We take a nap when our body tells us it's time, we eat when we are hungry and we dance when our body has the energy...almost like being a child again, isn't it.

I should like to add an anecdotic and humourous remark to this scientific debate which I owe to singer songwriter Richard Bona on the occasion of his concert in Riehen (Switzerland) of July 12,2013: "Switzerland invented the clock, but Africa invented time, which is expandable..." Richard Bona was born in Cameroon, lives in New York, has performed on Friday in Switzerland, yesterday in Madrid, and his music is caracterized by complex rhythmicities and varied tempi...

A spatio-temporal continuum is a neat way of representing how we experience time. The midpoint represents the ideal balance of spatial and temporal relations, as might be experienced by children playing or when you are mindfully engaged in some familiar activity. At the spatial end of the continuum, time is interpreted as if it were subordinate to space, like some sort of moving attribute of space. At the other end, time is interpreted as undirected awareness. The problem with the spatial end of the continuum is that you feel like you are some sort of object in the world. The problem with the temporal end of the continuum is that you are oblivious to your circumstances. Ideally, we find a balance between these two extremes. But, it is impossible to avoid slipping down to the spatial end of the continuum, since unfamiliar situations require you to focus on the spatial features until the situation becomes familiar.

The concept of 'time' and its relation to the living experience was discussed in detail by the ancient Greeks, medieval and renaissance scholars, 16th-19th century scientists and philosophers, and modern scholars such as Bergson, Einstein, Husserl, Heidegger, Deleuz and their students/followers. Unfortunately, the consequences of WWII caused much of these discussions to disappear from the scholarly awareness. When looking into the awareness of time, we need to start with the structures of the meaning of the concept and trace them back to their histrical origins. This is a historical-cultural quest that must be taken individually as it requires the reduction/bracketing of one's own and socially-inherited experiences. Here are a few cues to lead you toward finding your answer. Time, like space, is merely an objectification of the void between spatiotemporally-extended objects - in the case of time, the duration between consciously/subconsciously discernible events of environmental/situational change. This means that if you can't be aware of any change, you can't have any experience of what people call time. The abovementioned works and the infamous McGill experiments confirm that and more. There is a conflicting feeling of difference in the human awareness of 'time' when experiencing simulateneously natural life events and a representation of scientifically-measured 'time' using instruments that stems from the above mentioned and might have triggered your question. I recognize that this short note may raise more questions than answers but believe that is the best contribution I can provide at this point. Maybe one day I'll have some time to edit my unpublished papers into an article or as a part of a book.

hi this is an apt question. I would like to make a few observations here. children and youth have no time as we think, school and college is filled with studies, exams, and little play. day for them begins at 7 am and ends at 7pm. college starts at 7 am and ends at 7 pm. few who are not competitive join ordinary colleges.. time is much more. let us all remember one thing, time lost is not gained, time and tide wait for none. its all in your hands to relive the time as memories stay fit and happy or else time will consume you in the form of diabetes, heart attack and strokes.,

That matter has interested me for years, I even wrote a text on it back in 2007, but in Dutch. The observation indeed points to something great, although it has to be discerned in between the myriad of perceptional disturbances, often due to specifically personal inductions. John Smart dedicated his following website on it: http://www.accelerationwatch.com/

I found two originally totally independent complementary main lines of thought leading to an understanding of the “acceleration” of time.

The first is a spin off from Scale Relativity, an approach of the astro-physicist Laurent Nottale to unify general relativity with quantum mechanics by extending the principle of relativity from position, orientation, speed and acceleration to scale (http://www.luth.obspm.fr/~luthier/nottale/ukdownlo.htm). Studying the properties of evolutionary trees as critical systems by the means of fractal calculus leading to log-periodic functions he could show, in collaboration with socio-economist Pierre Grou, that all evolutionary trees have common fractal characteristics of deceleration starting from or acceleration towards critical points. Most remarkable in our context is that human society is heading to a critical point between 2050 and 2080. This theoretical point, which is to understand as a phase shift, resulting from the succeeding crises following each other at increasing rate until the super crisis, is spread out in earlier time because of saturation (limited earthly resources) and dissipative effects (increasing interaction between events in a limited space & time slot): the change will be the biggest since the advent of the first human communities in the stone age. Intriguing is that there is no indication of what will actually happen. They only warn (as Ervin Lazslo did already in the 1980s when he was at the Club of Rome) that the actual capacity of global governance to evolve quickly and to cope with this challenge is highly insufficient, so that we risk to undergo an uncontrolled and thus very dangerous irreversible bifurcation (see also http://www.evolutionarymanifesto.com/ for intentional evolution).

But, in the second, a further development of the work of the cybernetician Valentin Turchin by the evolutionary systems phylosopher Francis Heylighen, who set up consecutively the Principia Cybernetica Project (http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/) then the Self Organisation Study Group (http://ecco.vub.ac.be/) and recently the Global Brain Institute (http://globalbraininstitute.org/), the unexpected answer to the first idea came as by total surprise.

It comes actually to extrapolate the occurrence of successive meta-system transitions (where a meta-system is a system provided with (self) control functions (aimed at a definite goal) and where the transitions are the emergence of ever hierarchically higher levels of control systems over grouped subsystems). This has been realized in living organisms but this evolution is still going on by integrating humans and machines into a global organism, where the internet has the function of linking nerve system. In this perspective a new global consciousness is gradually emerging, where the cognitive capacity of the whole is significantly superior to the sum of the individual brains: the metaphor of the Global Brain.

All of this to introduce you into the interpretation of accelerating human life: we are approaching a tremendous societal change/integration, and experience this through ever faster successions of all kinds of local and global crises, events are impacting us at increasing pace. May the global brain act in time, so that our civilization will survive itself (http://globalmoratorium.wordpress.com/ )

This is an excellent observation and question. I have come across this myself in the past. I have the viewpoint seeing "Time" being related in two realms.

1. Time in The Physical Universe.

2. Time in one's own perception made reality or so called One's Own Individual Reality.

And mind you, i am distinguishing these two realities as separate from one another for the context of thinking about the idea of time, but in actuality they intermingle in Life between the two realities.

Now the answer to your question.

The Time in the Physical universe moves at a constant rate as measured by Atomic clocks. It never becomes faster or slower. If we really look at the concept of Time, it is not a separate quantity from Motion either. (Remember Space-Time relationship in Relativity?)

Thats about Time as depicted in the Real Physical Universe.

Now the Individual has a perception of Physical Time by means of measuring equipments.. Eg. watches. And what they do is Move to denote the passage of time.

Individuals can be seen to have attention focused upon (1) the physical universe

and (2) their own individual reality.

Eg. looking at a moving car in the now is example of (1).

and looking at what happened in a quarrel with someone in one's own mind is an example of (2).

If you have really immerzed yourself in one of your childhood memories for a while and you suddenly came to the present, you would say "Oh! it looked as if it was just yesterday" (eventhough the event would have been 20-30 years back.) So you see this is personalized sense of Time in one's own reality.

So the individual is constantly shifting focus from external objects and towards the internal thoughts/emotions/sensations in one self.

But this shifting keeps increasing and more internalized as one gets older, unlike in childhood, where one's attention is more on things around oneself and in the present moment.

"As one gets older, the person is more and more being for moments in Present, compared to being mostly in Present when young." This is because of the amount of complex calculations that the individual is involving himself with experiences that amount from the past and will pertain to the future. (Lets also say that when a personal is emotionally upset and worried, he is more in his own reality and loses perception of outer reality, partially/ completely. Eg: one doesnt remember what one was told when one was upset as ones attention was on the upsetness than what came from outside.)

Now if we really look at an older person, like a really old man or woman, major attention of theirs is away from the Present Moment, to memories of the past. So when they would come into doing some things, there are these thoughts in their internal reality upon which their attention is also partially divided. Thus divided attention or focus, seems to split our awareness of Time into different Streams and we may become less aware of moments of passage of time in the Physical Universe.

Hope this helps.

OK. There are many different interesting opinions from the various philosophical positions. Thanks to everybody. I would like to consider also ratherish another aspect of the question, concerning lifetime. There is an opinion on existence of invariant: product of length of life and quantity of information. It is considered, e.g., that long-livers of the Caucasian highlands live for a long time because they have too little information about outer world, which could disturb their inner life (beside of healthy environment). On the other hand, we know many famous people with the richest knowledge, which life was long enough. In any case, the external factors, probably, exist which affect on our inner time, and, therefore, we may control the latter. Can we slow down our inner time by our will-power and prolong the life? We should never surrender.

"As you go from big to small, the surface area to volume ratio increases. Small animals, like bats, have a huge surface area compared to their volume. As a result, they naturally lose heat at a very high rate. To help offset the cost of losing so much energy in the form of heat, the bats are forced to maintain a high rate of metabolism. They breathe rapidly, their little heart races and they have to eat a huge amount. So, a bat's size clearly affects the speed at which it lives its life." Professor Brian Cox, "Wonders of Life" documentary, episode 4, entitled "Size Matters" (46-mins & 40-secs).

Time helps stop, everything happen all at once.

This comment is not directly related to the question of time, but is an interesting support of my answer above.

It is a video, which very nicely shows what’s at stake.

Be aware it dates from before the advent of the internet.

In the end it also gets stuck on individual development (relying on the God hypothesis). Instead, the actual Global Brain metaphor (http://globalbraininstitute.org/) is based on thuely externalising knowledge allowing for planetary integration of cognition via the internet (or its successors), so that global consiousness is emerging outisde our brians. May it get mature for effective action in time, in order to allow our civilisation to survive itself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1sr9x263LM

To Daniel Webber.

Excellent and terrifying comparison.

TIME for PLATO [TI. 37 D] .... is the moving Icon of Eternity Moving According to Numbers....

Personally I feel that time passes faster than the case when one is young. Then time dId not pass quickly due to the bulk of knowledge a child has to grasp at school et.c.

Similar is the case of an imprisoned.

I.e when one is stressed more and more, he feels time passing slowly, and the contrary i.e. when we are not pressed or we are happy we feel time passing faster because we want to remain in this situation as more as possible.

Regards from Athens,

Panagiotis Stefanides

http://www.stefanides.gr

The ancient Greeks made a distinct difference between the inner feeling of duration and the concept of measured time. They were perfectly aware that time is just a way to bridge between individual differences in feeling the duration of the same event by different observers due to different contextual and emotional states. Unfortunately, this distinction and its importance were lost in the modern western culture and the result are generations of stressed people who live in conflict and stress. The once famous debate between Bergson and Einstein, which was one of the triggers to Heidegger's Being and Time, was concluded politically and not phenomenologically. As the scientific thought cannot transcend the concept of time and is hopelessly trapped within its vicious circle of unaware self reference, the scientific perspective and its mathematical masks are incapable to untangle this plate of spaghetti.

Maybe I should dust off my unpublished paper; in the last time I contemplated about publishing it, I couldn't find a suitable journal and thought that in our time, the concept of time is not interesting anyone anymore...

Dear Panagiotis, your second viewing is very vital, but it is contradict partly with the first one. Or else, one may think that you are more happy now than in your youth, because you did not like to study in the school ☺.

>.....because you did not like to study in the school ...

In some situations time appears to rise barriers to dialogue too, what leads to entrenchment.It was a pleasure.

Thank you, Panagiotis. I agree that each individual, having rich knowledge and understanding their price is happy and proud independently of time. He is sufficient himself.

But I don’t see any connection between our feeling of time and our Earth's rotation around the Sun.

Thank you Dear Ustinova

>...But I don’t see any connection between our feeling of time and our Earth's rotation around the Sun. ...,

OK. We need, indeed, a standard basis. Thanks.

I Thank you too.

Dear Dr Ustinova,

Time is a wonderful puzzle that has troubled and fascinated my imagination since my youth.

I do not have answers to all of your questions, however, I believe that I may have made a contribution that may help us to understand the physical basis for the apparent rate that time is experienced - in the moment. What I am talking about here is the type of temporal experience that enables some people to make more decisions in a very short objective time interval.

I believe that all people and animals experience time differently - some species may experience time at a much faster or slower rate. Most humans experience time at a roughly equivalent rate.

The question that I set myself the challenge to answer was - 'What biometric associated with brain function is responsible for determining the apparent rate that we experience time?

With the use of a thought experiment I believe that I demonstrated quite clearly that the answer to this question could not be found within the scope of classical physics.

I believe that consciousness is to be correlated with a macroscopic coherent state and that the apparent rate at which time is experience is determined by the uncertainty in time associated with the (carrier) wave function.

Because of the uncertainty relationship between energy and time it necessarily follows that as we grow older and the rate of metabolism of the brain decreases, so the uncertainty in the energy component of the wave function also decreases resulting in an increase in the temporal uncertainty. This increase in the temporal uncertainty would be subjectively experienced as an increase in the rate that time is experienced. This is why old people feel that events happen to fast for them to cope with.

For a more detailed explanation please take the time to examine the paper. I co-authored it with Prof. Ram Vimal. It is entitled - "How Long is a Piece of Time? - Phenomenal Time and Quantum Coherence - Toward a Solution."

Best

Chris Davia

Dear Chris, I see that we transfer the discussion from objective to subjective plane. Certainly, the quality of brain is very different for various people: one thinks quickly, another slowly. Why? It is a separate very interesting and very important field of research (in biology? Or psychology, perhaps?). Physics of alive matter is quite different, and nobody knows how and why. It is not a classic physics, of course. There is, probably, an answer in your papers. Nevertheless, if you believe that consciousness is to be correlated with a macroscopic coherent (physical) state, you should only derive the way of it, and the main problem of the life origin will be resolved. It makes sense to try.

Dear Dr Ustinova,

At first I was puzzled by your answer until I realised that you are probably completely unaware of my research and its implications (as indeed, are most people).

Unlike many psychologists and physicists I am not of the opinion that biological forms and processes (and even the phenomena of consciousness) are arbitrary.

One of the basic aims of my research is to demonstrate, through argument and empirical evidence, that life is a very fundamental physical process and that the phenomenon of consciousness is deeply rooted in the fundamental principles and laws that govern the Universe and its evolution.

I believe that there is very good evidence to support the possibility that the evolution of life is the evolution of the process of catalysis and that all living processes (from the microscopic to the macroscopic (including the entire biosphere) are organised as fractal processes of catalysis.

Consequently, within the context of this model, the brain is considered to be a macroscopic catalyst exhibiting exactly the same types of physical process that may be observed at the level of the enzyme. This theory is firmly associated with recent empirical studies that point to 'vibrationally assisted quantum [ground-state] tunneling' as the basic mechanism of enzyme catalysis.

The 'Fractal Catalytic Model' may be considered to represent a philosophical shift of emphasis from epistemology to ontology. The brain is not considered to be an 'epistemological (or truth) engine ', but rather, an 'ontological lens' (if this seems a little cryptic - I apologise. What I mean by this becomes clear when one is familiar with the research). The implication of this 'shift' is to break down the usual distinction between 'objective' and 'subjective'. These concepts become redundant within the context of the FCMl. Neither are phenomenal states to be considered as representative of actual things or processes 'out there'. Conscious states are considered to be truly 'ontological' but the (supposed) objects and processes of the world prior to cognition are only considered to be 'implicit' in the invariance of events in space and time.

Returning to the subject of time... the FCM argues that conscious states of all brains of all species anywhere in the universe are to be correlated with the 'transition states' of macroscopic processes of catalysis. Given that the process of catalysis is vibrationally assisted then this state is to be associated with a coherent solitonic wave function.

Within this context a long standing philosophical enigma may be resolved. Kant successfully argued that the twin concepts of 'space' and 'time' are a-priori - i.e not synthetic. This led many thinkers to suppose that the brain was in some way pre-programmed genetically. However, if we accept that consciousness is fundamentally rooted in the quantum uncertainties of space and time of a macroscopic coherent wave function, then we can now understand that the the concepts of space and time are a-priori because space and time are never represented but are the very 'stuff' from which our consciousness is made!!!!!!

Whatever that means?????!!!!!!!

References

Davia C.J (2006 ) Life, Catalysis and Excitable Media: A dynamic systems approach to metabolism and cognition. In Tuszynski J (ed .) The Emerging Physics of Consciousness . Heidelberg , Germany : Springer-Verlag. Publication date – June 19 2006

Davia C.J (2004), Minds Brains and Catalysis. Online paper published in the the Carnegie Mellon University web site by Professor Patricia Carpenter.

http://www.psy.cmu.edu/~davia/mbc/

Frohlich, H, Long Range Coherence and Energy Storage in Biological Systems, Int. J. Quantum Chem., v.II, 641-649 (1968)

Georgiev, D Bose-Einstein condensation of tunnelling photons in the brain cortex

as a mechanism of conscious action , Cogprints (2004). Http://cogprints.org/3539/01/tunnelling.pdf

Knapp, M.J, Klinman, J.P, (2002), Environmentally Coupled Hydrogen Tunneling, Eur. J. Biochem . 269 3113-3121 (MINREVIEW)

Petoukhov, S. (1999) Biosolitons - One Secret of Living Matter-The Bases of Solitonic Biology . Mechanical Engineering Research Institute, Russian Academy of Sciences, Malii Haritonievskii pereulok, Moscow, Centre, 101830, Russia.

Sataric, M.V., Ivic, Z., Tuszynski, J. A., & Zakula, R. (1991) Influence of a solitonic mechanism on the process of chemical catalysis, Journal of Molecular Electronics, 7 , 39-46.

Sutcliffe. M.J, & Scrutton, N.S, (2002), A New Conceptial Framework for Enzyme Catalysis – Hydrogen Tunneling Coupled to Enzyme Dynamics in Flavoprotein and Quinoprotein, Eur. J. Biochem . 269 3096-3102 (MINREVIEW)

Vimal, R and Davia, C.J . How Long is a Piece of Time - Phenomenal Time and Quantum Coherence - Toward a Solution (2008) . Quantum Biosystems. Editor in Chief – Pregnolato, Massimo

Yakushevich, L.V. (2001). Is DNA a nonlinear dynamical system where solitary conformational waves are possible? Journal of Bioscience, 26 , 101-109. Schneider, E.D., & Kay, J.J. (1994). Complexity and Thermodynamics - Towards a new Ecology. Futures, Butterworth - Heimann. 26(6) 626-647. Swenson, R. & Turvey, M.T., Thermodynamic Reasons for Perception-Action Cycles, Ecological Psychology, 2(4), 317-348 (1991).

Well, I would like to state a completely new viewpoint from the one that I had stated earlier about Time.

Time appears to be an independent quantity in the 'view' that one considers in the Question as Ustinova has stated above.

But I think deeply reflecting on this entity called "Time", onee can logically divide it into two types atleast :

1. 'personally experienced' Time, and

2. 'Physical Time',

And they overlap each other in reality.

Now,The 'Sensation' of Time EXISTS due to the presence of an "Observer" who is observing mechanical motion of the physical universe.

"Sensation of Time" is an interpretation of Physical Motions, that has been agreed by the Observers of the Vast System called The Physical Universe.

If there were NO OBSERVER(S), would time exist? (Unless there was atleast one observer to observe the Motions of the Physical Universe)

Interestingly If one thinks about it, Is there a past and a future really? There are only Present Moments and continuing new Present Moments. Now followed by Now.

Reason being :

Past is only memory revisited "of what was a 'present moment' before this 'present moment'"

Future is an extrapolation of the impressions contained in Memories and what one observes in Present Moment. Another class of Memories, made out of imagination and rational thinking.

So 'Direct Observation' of something is actually the 'Present moment' of that observation point.

Every idea, opinion that one considers, thinks, are all out of Motions of the physical universe (unless created through imagination) that were stored in one's own memories and extrapolated for a future.

Now when a person is young, he is more in Present Moments in life, but as he grows older, he starts to store memories of events that happened in present time (that are out of his own control. These pop up as he grows older without his permission or his command). This means he is going to go out of the Present Moment of the physical universe, and go through a process called 'Thinking' about past and future and present in his personal universe, but at the same time not completely focussed at the 'Direct Observation' of the Present Moment in the Physical Universe.

Thus a lapse of observation of the Physical Universe, and Hence the idea the observer gets that the Physical Universe went by too fast.

To Bernard Goossens: The manifest progress of the world life testifies to the definite role of the Global Brain and its steady rise, so that we may hope to survive. Although I did not catch the answers to the questions discussed (the causes of the internal time change and possible control it with will-power) I am grateful to you for the links to yours and Russel’s interesting web sites.

To Suresh Kumar: I believe that the strong will-power can control the speed of the inner time, which decreases the “inner entropy”. By my opinion, immense information strengthens the will-power and further decreases the inner entropy. When the individual has relaxed (e.g., he has reached his aim), his organism receives the long-waited freedom, and its entropy increases (sometimes, up to the collapse of the organism). On the other hand, we know, indeed, than more a man knows – more he doubts, which inevitably must relax his will-power and increase entropy. In such a case you are right in your finish conclusion. Nevertheless, physicists will never admit your reasoning about “entangled quantum states” (quantum states of what ?), or “quantum wave collapse” (what is the quantum wave?). Thank you for the entropy.

To Christopher Davia:

Dear Chris, thank you that you waste your time for me. Indeed, my knowledge in catalysis are defined by some primitive examples, e.g., metals are good catalysts in the nanodiamond synthesis. Agree, please, that it is too far from consideration of brain as “a macroscopic catalyst exhibiting exactly the same types of physical process that may be observed at the level of the enzyme”. Your FCM is very original, as well as your conception of breaking down the usual distinction between 'objective' and 'subjective' is very daring. Unfortunately, I shall never read, apparently, your papers, so that I would like to believe a priori that you are right.

In the first part of your answer I have found at last the comment, which I like and I agree with which:

“Because of the uncertainty relationship between energy and time it necessarily follows that as we grow older and the rate of metabolism of the brain decreases, so the uncertainty in the energy component of the wave function also decreases resulting in an increase in the temporal uncertainty. This increase in the temporal uncertainty would be subjectively experienced as an increase in the rate that time is experienced. This is why old people feel that events happen to fast for them to cope with”. Excellent !!!

Some researchers have hypothesized that our perceptual system binds events together if we perceive them to be the result of intentional action, and that temporal binding results from our ability to link our actions to their consequences. But psychological scientist Marc Buehner of Cardiff University, UK wondered whether temporal binding might be rooted in a more general capacity to understand causal relations.

"We already know that people are more likely to infer a causal relation if two things are close in time. It follows, via Bayesian calculus, that the reverse should also be true: If people know two things are causally related, they should expect them to be close in time," Buehner says. "Time perception is inherently uncertain, so it makes sense for systematic biases in the form of temporal binding to kick in. If this is true, then it would suggest that temporal binding is a general phenomenon of which intentional action is just a special case."

Buehner decided to test this hypothesis in two experiments using an event-anticipation paradigm. Participants in the experiments had to predict when a target light would flash. In the Baseline condition, the target flash was preceded by a signal light; in the Self-Causal condition, participants pressed a button to generate the target flash; in the Machine-Causal condition, a separate machine pressed the button to generate the target flash. According to the causal binding hypothesis, the Self-Causal and Machine-Causal conditions should lead participants to anticipate the target flash earlier relative to Baseline; according to intentional binding accounts, only participants in the Self-Causal condition would show early anticipation.

The results showed that Baseline predictions were significantly later relative to the predictions of participants in both the Self-Causal and the Machine-Causal groups. The prediction time was not significantly different between the two causal groups, however. These findings suggest that intentionality is not a necessary condition for temporal binding to occur, confirming Buehner's hypothesis.

"Understanding the past gives us an advantage in predicting the future," says Buehner. "If we have a causal story of why things are happening, we are better prepared to expect what is to come. Merely knowing the past in the absence of causal understanding -- such as in the Baseline condition -- does not afford better preparedness."

"Causation instills a subjective time warp in people's minds," he observes.

Buehner believes that these findings may have practical implications for usability engineers and interface designers.

"People's perception of wait times and delays are becoming increasingly important. Here we can show that such perceptions are subject to systematic distortions depending on people's causal beliefs. For example, if people believe that they (or someone or something else) are in charge, the time appears to pass faster."

Hi all,

I saw additional perspectives and wanted to add more about the internal and the external notions of 'time'. For those who struggle to integrate physical/mathematical views of the notion of 'time' with the subjective awareness and feeling of durations, I recommend reviewing the seminal works of Kelly (1882; the concept of specious present in his 'the alternative: a study in psychology'), James (1890; the origin of the idea of time in his 'principles of psychology'), Husserl (1893-1917; the concepts of recollection, retention, and protention in his lectures on 'the phenomenology of the consciousness of internal time', edited by Edith Stein and Martin Heidegger), Bergson (1910-1923; the concept of duration versus the transcendental concept of physical 'time' in his 'time and free will', and 'duree et simultaneite, a propos de la theorie d'Einstein'), Heidegger (1927; the concept of the temporality of experience in his 'being and time'), and later others who repeated the same arguments again and again until they faded into the archival reminiscence of the scholarly community that adopted the deterministic notion of 'time'.

The famous debate between Einstein and Bergson was concluded publicly by denouncing the importance of internal notion of 'time' and focusing on measured 'time'. Today, we are conditioned from early age to adopt measured 'time' as the only perspective of the rate of change in our living experiences, but this indoctrination comes with an expensive price tag that we all pay as at times our internal notion of duration deviates significantly from measured 'time'. While Husserl was a renowned mathematician, the resr of the group above was not considered seriously and was labeled at times as 'metaphysical', a pejorative label in that time. Yet, it is noteworthy to visit related opinions of scholars such as Gödel, Schrödinger, and Hawking on phenomenology, deterministic physical concepts, and the scientific subjectivity.

From the biological standpoint, there is an interesting set of observations concerning the biological factor of full cycle that includes the occurrence, its sensation, its perception, and a corresponding reaction. I don't have the original publication, but the author reviewed the differences between various species that understand the world in different temporal terms: certain predatory insects live much 'faster' than molluscs. If one's experiences are of the slow change type, one's internal 'time' may tick slower than someone whose experiences are of the fast pace type. Regardless, all age and perish per their physical time which depends on many factors that are probably not tightly conjugated with the feeling of internal 'time'.

To Ralph Samwell:

Thank you for your description of possible experimental verification of, as seemed, a virtual situation. Apparently, a false start in sport is of the similar nature, is not it? Do you see any professional explanation of the effect on the molecular (rather neuron) level? Perhaps, in the frame of your own question: Are our brilliant thoughts just along for the ride? The motion of what may we suspect in that case? In general, you must be right: the life is in motion. Including the conscious one, of course.

To Ronnen Paytan:

Thank you very much for your interesting comments and useful references of many ancient, classic and modern works on the questions. Certainly, a lot of the latter arise due to our ignorance and impossibility to perceive immense knowledge, accumulated in the Global Brain. On the other hand, it may be well that ever-living questions arise again and again. It means, perhaps, that the Global Brain perfects itself further.

To Nuwais Nooman:

Thank you for interesting comments with your original thoughts about the nature of Time. Certainly, this helps.

G.K., I like your comment on 'ever-living questions rising again and again'. Indeed, the conflict between internal and external 'times' goes back to the dawn of humanity, but mostly manifested in western writing. While in the past (ancient times to post WWII) violence and subversion were the main reasons for the scholarly forgetfulness, it was said that today, due to the exponential growth in the number of publications in each discipline, the effective scholarly memory goes 5 years backwards only.

Here is a derivative question: is there a difference in the subjective feeling of 'time' in scholars who are forced by the requirements of their academic institutions to publish original research very frequently and scholars who are less pressed to 'produce' in quantities?

To Ronnen Paytan:

Certainly, everybody cloistered in a time frame, experiences lack of time, whereas who works freely, may never think about time at al. What is better for the results? Several situations might be occurred. It depends, in many cases, on individuals. Someone, clenched by time, mobilizes all his resources, so that his will to win leads him to success. Another one is alarmist in the time frame; he loses control of your temper and lightly falls into depression. In any case, the scientific work hates hurry. Remember the Einstein advice to live in a lighthouse.

G.U. Apparently, a false start in sport is of the similar nature, is it not?

Maybe not! May I suggest that there is… a) reality, b) virtual reality and c) best guess reality.

With a) the laws are fixed and not changeable within this Universe.

b) any laws you like, bend, break or change and rewrite the program but it’s only as good as the information put in.

c) are there really laws of the universe or do we make up laws in order to understand it from our own conscious view point? Do we think using language, or do we only use language to express already made thoughts? We test these laws with rigor, if our peers don’t shoot it down and it stands the test of time, they become accepted that it is probably how “it” works. Eddington’s arrow is vividly recognized by consciousness, and is a property of entropy alone, but does that hit the bulls-eye? They might be brilliant thoughts but from our limited view point we can’t say with any accuracy what motion is, we can tell where it’s going or where it is but not both with any certainty. Perhaps “it” is stranger than we can suppose? c) is the human empirical approximation of reality.

a) you’re in a race of motion, fact. But b) the race is virtual, man made, not real. But c) how do I win anyway, because it is subject to the laws of a)?

Optimal cognitive control may surprisingly be mediated by enhanced responses to both relevant and irrelevant stimuli, and such control is accompanied by structural alterations in the brain. This has implications beyond simple distinctions between sprinters and the rest of us because it suggests expertise in certain aspects of cognition are associated with changes in the connections between brain areas. So, it’s not just that the relevant areas of the brain are larger – but that the connections between key areas are different. Whether people are born with these differences or develop them is currently not known, some suggest both. Whether it’s a best guess going at the B of the bang in the sprinters race or a Darwinian worst guess false start and end of genetic line disqualification in the human race will determine success.

G.U. Do you see any professional explanation of the effect on the molecular (rather neuron) level?

Studies have been designed to assess the influence of distracting information and the ability to update a response plan in the presence of conflicting stimuli. Results showed that the expert pilots were more accurate than age-matched volunteers, with no significant difference in reaction time – so, the pilots were able to perform the task at the same speed but with significantly higher accuracy. In a second task, there was no significant difference between the pilots and volunteers, which the authors suggests that expertise in cognitive control may be highly specialized, highly particular to specific tasks and not simply associated with overall enhanced performance. These findings suggest that in humans some types of expert cognitive control may be mediated by enhanced response gain to both relevant and irrelevant stimuli, and is accompanied by structural alterations in the white matter of the brain.

Shepard RN. Stanford University,

My early fascination with geometry and physics and, later, with perception and imagination inspired a hope that fundamental phenomena of psychology, like those of physics, might approximate universal laws. Ensuing research led me to the following candidates, formulated in terms of distances along shortest paths in abstract representational spaces: Generalization probability decreases exponentially and discrimination time reciprocally with distance. Time to determine the identity of shapes and, provisionally, relation between musical tones or keys increases linearly with distance. Invariance of the laws is achieved by constructing the representational spaces from psychological rather than physical data (using multidimensional scaling) and from considerations of geometry, group theory, and symmetry. Universality of the laws is suggested by their behavioural approximation in cognitively advanced species and by theoretical considerations of optimality. Just possibly, not only physics but also psychology can aspire to laws that ultimately reflect mathematical constraints, such as those of group theory and symmetry, and, so, are both universal and nonarbitrary.

Researchers found that despite the lack of sensory information, monkeys were remarkably precise and consistent in their timed behaviours. This consistency could be explained by activity in a specific region of the brain called the lateral intraparietal area (LIP). Interestingly, the researchers found that LIP activity during their task was different from activity in previous studies that had failed to eliminate external cues or expectation of reward. "In contrast to previous studies that observed a build-up of activity associated with the passage of time, were found that LIP activity decreased at a constant rate between timed movements," said lead researcher Geoffrey Ghose, Ph.D., associate professor of neuroscience at the University of Minnesota. "Importantly, the animals' timing varied after these neurons were more or less, active. It's as if the activity of these neurons was serving as an internal hourglass."

Dear R.S.

Thank you very much, indeed, for very interesting and comprehensive answer-comment. There are a lot of new points to think.

On the Subject of the Direction of Time.

At the risk of becoming a crashing bore, I find that my pen is, once more, troubled into motion by the ghosts of things un-said (Just finished watching ‘Lincoln’ – still in the thrall of beautiful language).

I did not want my contribution to the discussion to end without sharing what the ‘Fractal Catalytic Model ‘ (FCM) might contribute to our understanding of the apparent direction of time..

I would like to emphasize an earlier statement by saying that I believe that ‘time’ is a poorly understood and mysterious aspect of the universe.

Together with Prof. Ram Vimal we analysed phenomenal time from the perspective on non-varying experiences – pure tones. From this we inferred an aspect of the ‘dimension’ of consciousness. The analysis revealed that no approach rooted in classical physics could account for why temporal experiences are associated with a particular rate. However, we argue that progress can be made if it is assumed that consciousness is to be correlated with a macroscopic coherent state – perhaps similar to a BEC. The analysis revealed that, for humans, the uncertainty in time for this (carrier) wave to lie between a 16th and an 18th of a second (the Critical Fusion Frequency (CFF) for humans. I believe that we have presented a very strong argument that implicates the uncertainty in time of the carrier wave function as determining the apparent rate at which time is experienced. However, the argument, as it is presented, makes no claims as to the origin of the supposed ‘direction of time’!

To redress the matter I present the following short analysis:-

The FCM lies within the compass of dynamical systems theory and treats cognitive states as dynamic solutions to the boundary conditions imposed by the body and the senses. The invariant phenomenology of a pure tone is correlated with a non-trivial (i.e. coherent) invariant state in the brain. The invariant state of the coherent wave correlates in a simple way with the invariance experienced by the listener.

A key feature of this approach is the ‘invariance of the solution’ even when the stimulus and the associated brain state is viewed at different temporal rates. Although increasing (or decreasing) the speed at which these states are observed (eg, by using some sort of film), nevertheless the coherent solutions to these boundary conditions remain exactly the same! – i.e. one stimulus gives rise to one possible phenomenal state (not a range of possible states corresponding to different rates of temporal flow).

Although, these coherent states (or soliton solutions) may be claimed to be invariant (i.e as is the case with pure tones) they are nevertheless dynamic (perhaps in a way that we find difficult to intuitively grasp). They are far from equilibrium dynamic states.

Given that this model is correct in all the relevant details then we can come to some very interesting conclusions:-

Let us suppose that we run the film of the stimulus and the associated coherent brain state backwards!

It turns out that an analysis of this film does not suggest that it is in any sense an impossible state to occur! In other words, strange as it may seem, whilst we claim that a brain state is intrinsically dynamic this in itself is not sufficient to claim that there is any associated directionality!!??

Can we really accept this idea? I believe that we can. Let us suppose that we alter someone’s brain so that they lose the ability to lay down memories. If we introduce a stimulus like a simple audio frequency then, given that the brain can no longer alter itself, it necessarily follows that there is no way that the listener can tell how long he/she has been listening – A second? A million years? From this it follows that, given this set of constraints, each phenomenal moment is exactly the same as any other! I do not believe that the experience (or concept) of temporal direction can emerge from such a set of conditions.

Even if we introduce the concept of phenomenal change – as in the case of a slowly ascending tone, if we still impose the constraint that the brain can not lay down memories, then, given that the same principle applies as when we reversed the direction of the film earlier in this analysis; that reversing the film still gives a view of a consistent physical scenario, then we must conclude that whatever the reason for our sense of the direction of time, it is not to be found within the conscious moment alone.

Give that the directionality of time represents a problem of asymmetry, we must search for its cause within an obvious asymmetry associated with brain function. Is there an obvious candidate? Yes, there is! If we listen to an extended note, say, C Sharp, played right at the end of Rachmaninov’s famous prelude, then, what we hear is somewhat qualified by the harmonies of the composers music. It does not matter at all that Beethoven’s Fifth is soon to be played. The point is that that brain contains information about events on one side of the ‘time-line’, but not the other!

From this I believe that it follows that although dynamic ‘phenomenal change’ may be intrinsic to the conscious moment and explainable within the physical dynamic correlated with this moment, this is not also true of our sense of ‘temporal directionality’. I believe that what follows from the above observations and analysis is that temporal directionality is a derived concept that was initially implicit in the asymmetry of information in the brain relating to events on the time-line ‘post and prior’ to experience.

So, to conclude;

Phenomenal Change (and indeed ‘rate’) is a-priory / intuitive and intrinsic to the special/temporal wave function associated with the conscious moment. It is fundamental to the ontology of consciousness and associated directly with the uncertainty in time of the coherent wave function.

Directionality is a synthetic concept that emerges consequent upon the informational content of the brain extrinsic to the conscious moment but which may nevertheless qualify or ‘prime’ particular conscious states.

Temporal Change (rate) = Phenomenology

Temporal Directionality = Psychology.

Vimal, R and Davia, C.J . How Long is a Piece of Time - Phenomenal Time and Quantum Coherence - Toward a Solution (2008) . Quantum Biosystems. Editor in Chief – Pregnolato, Massimo

Speaking as a sleep psychiatrist, my view is that daily life involves a practical set of activities that we govern in managing our overall life experience. My definition of psychiatry is " Psychiatry is the practical discipline of managing impairments of mindfulness, motivation, and fellowship throughout wakefulness and sleep." In this definition, it is important to stress that sleep is actually a part of consciousness, in radical departure from conventional discussions about the philsophy of mind and intentionality. During sleep there is reduced, but not absent, awareness of the environment -- it is not coma, so need to be included as part of the broader subject matter about consciousness in need of comprehensive explanation. At the center of this perspective is also the recognition that ordinary consciousness does not implicate but one kind of time, but a plurality of times. Some of these times involve intentionality as already researched wrt wakefulness, but some of these times involve neurobiologically-framed cyclic processes, some of which are in time-scales of 90 minutes, through circadian rhythms of conscious functions, with others going up to the time-scales of the genetic reshuffling events related to sexual reproduction and implicated scenescence of individuals. With the involvment of multiple temporalities in application as consciousness proceeds, the discussion of what consciousness can move yet more beyond the mind-body dichotomy bigotry that we are still struggling culturally to get past. From a practical standpoint, once one can get past thinking of time mostly in Newtonian, or even in mostly unitemporal terms, then we will have renewed opportunities for may refreshing new perpectives on just what consciousness is and how it works. In some sense McTaggarts' argument comparing A and B series is quite germane, that Time cannot be Real, and be a harbinger of moving away from reifications about what Time must be, and away from imposed conventions or worries about how Time should be experienced. We need to be a bit more amoral about what Time "should" be.

Hi Douglas,

This part of the discussion on the divide between the external and internal vantage points on consciousness and their affect on the perception of 'time' reminds me the interesting, albeit controversial, works of the late Benjamin Libet that were allegedly replicated in 2012, and revisited again lately (http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21528772.300-can-we-live-without-free-will.html). Libet demonstrated that consciousness is not so well defined when assessed simultaneouly externally and internally and concluded that preconscious processes determine choices and actions. Yet, as far as I remember, he referred to impulsive decisions and actions and not to thinking in its Heideggerian sense. I find your view on sleeping and dreaming as alternative forms of consciousness very interesting, could you elaborate more or provide some references? It would be interesting to assess comparatively durations of same events as perceived in reality and while dreaming.

Different environment & different set-up will give you different answer. At the end it will relate to culture studies.

Hi Lee, are you saying Humans create their own reality?

Human find out time and understand its measure through the sun aspects on daytime and nighttime, vegetation and climate. Also they discovered the moon periodicity and later its influence on vegetation, oceans, etc …., and adopted as well another measure of time (or calendar). So the human perception of time was closely related to the cosmic, vegetation and agricultural behaviors through the seasons. Later they discovered the clock and its progression and spitted it into very small amount of time as picoseconds not necessary assessed by human feeling. So time could be a human feeling and perception from celestial and environment influences on our biological being as well as a mental processing tool and quantization amount for human needs from nature understanding or process handling. Anyway, younger the human biology is very unlike than at maturity age, it could be more sensitive to different influences; added to the psychological factor of life running and life disappearing metrics and to cultural heritage. So the sensitivity to time could differ from ages, milieu and psychological behavior as well from its uses.

To Chris Davia:

Thank you for the detailed explanation. Separately thanks that you did not afraid to become a crashing bore. Your students are happy, I believe. Due to your patience and skilful, image-bearing argumentation even the bubbleheaded blonds are forced to understand you.

To Douglas Moul:

Thank you for the answer from the point of view of the most enigmatic field of science.

Dr Ustinova,

I hope I understand you correctly. It was not my intention to be condescending.

Anyway, just to let you know - I have no students! - sad. At the moment I am not attached to any University.

To Chris Davia:

Sad, indeed. As I hope, you have forgiven me a condescending “science approach” to your “couple of ideas”. I am very glad that my guess at your science fictions turned out to be right. Of course, if your web-site, as well as your rather Georgian name are not mystifications too. In any case, thank you very much for your musical gifts.

"Time is not a condition, but rather a simple product of consciousness..." Guyau’s Idea of Time:A Cognitive View: http://www.jamichon.nl/jam_writings/1988_guyau_idea.pdf

The lifetime cycle from birth (at t=0) to death (at t=X years) can be described by a simple Gaussian curve with its maximum around X/2 years. The absolute values for a "biological age" X are different for men and women (women tend to live longer, medical fact) and also vary from country to country (for the reasons already mentioned above, including healthy stress-free environment etc). For illustration purposes only, let us take X=80 years. According to the suggested Gaussian form, it means that this person hits the peak (prime) of his life at 40 years. Interestingly enough, this age also coincides with a "mid-life crisis" (at least for men). Now, how we percieve time (the external and irreversible "arrow of time") when we grow up from t=0 (OK, let's take a more conscious age of a child of say t=7 years) to t=40 years. The time passes by very slow and we can do a lot of stuff during the day (including playing with friends outside all day long). Why? Because until we hit the maximum (at X/2=40 years), we are climbing up the "hill of life" (left part of the Gaussian curve). And any climbing takes time and efforts. But when we are young and strong enough we don't see the time fly because we are busy climbing up. Now, what happens after we have reached the top. This is simple: we go down the hill till we hit the rock bottom of our life (at X=80 years). More importantly, the acceleration of our descending will depend on the slope of the hill (the right side of the Gaussian curve). But in any case, this "free fall" from the hill gives us a notion of "flying time" (in contrast with a "slow time" from our younger years). And the older we become, the faster time passes by (in our own mind or brain, which is "aging" as well). By the way, this simple Gaussian curve also explains appearance of dementia at old age. Since this curve is symmetrical (around the origin of X/2=40 years), the "growing up" features of a youngster can be matched with the "coming down" features of an old person. In particular, a dementia at X=75 years (on the right downturning side of the curve) corresponds to a global cognitive ability of a child of age X=5 years (on the left upturning side of the curve). The half-width of the curve and the sharpness of its slopes depend on many factors (including both inherent and externally induced). But I strongly believe that we can change the parameters of the "lifetime curve" to some extent by adjusting these life factors on a daily basis.

Bravo, Sergei! You could do inconceivable to be evident. OK

I wonder if Sergei's reference to care holds the key. I would like to suggest, however, that children do in fact care about what they are doing, it is just that their attention is directed toward matters belonging to a more manageable context, such as a game. They don't have to struggle as much as grown ups, because the competition tends to be more compliant than the 'real world' of grown/groan ups making a living. Of course, sometimes, kids disagree on the rules of a game (who is in, who is out, what roles they play, etc.), in which case, I think their sense of time would change, simply because the circumstances no longer support their self-image. Maybe that is why adults develop a different view of time. Perhaps, our struggle is not 'time' as such, but rather the cognitive dissonance caused by subscribing to a worldview that seems just out of reach. We inadvertently separate ourselves from the moment by projecting an ideal scenario for ourselves. This separation gives the experience of time a spatial character, which is in some ways beneficial, since time then becomes manageable, but at such a great cost, if one 'forgets' to disengage the spatial metaphor.

To Fairouz Bettayeb;

Thank you, dear Fairouz. I was always sure of just women are the strongest basis of materialism in this world.

To Oktay Pashaev:

Thank you very much for the valuable rare reference. As the saying is, there are no any new under the Sun. The same questions worry us again and again. Basing on yours and Ronnen Paytan’s interesting references, we would believe that The Global Brain exists and tries to perfect itself.

Certainly, a time is necessary to comprehend Guyau’s Idea of Time. If you have got it, you are advantaged than others. Would you like to tell shortly, why does our sensation of the time flow change arise in our consciousness, from the point of view of Guyau’s Idea of Time? Of course, the examples of comparisons with James Joyce and Marcel Proust are also very interesting. I am grateful to you in advance.

To Daniel Webber:

Dear Daniel, let us don’t cavil at every word. Certainly, you are right, perhaps, in detail, but his image is beautiful, agree, please. One may fancy, for instance, that the height of the Gaussian curve is determined by the quantity of information absorbed, while steepness of the curve can be varied in dependence on our will-power. How is it going on? You are right – opinions may be different, and it is well. Nevertheless, as said our Ostap Bender, evaluate, please, beauty of the game!

I like Sergei's idea of a lifespan depicted as a Gaussian curve. After all, it resembles the crest of a wave, which is the basis of my philosophy of Surfism. I have never really thought how a person's age affects their perception of time. But, now that I think of it, the face of a wave could correspond to the first half of one's life, where energy is plentiful, etc. But, I think it is always possible to slip off the back of the wave, if circumstances get too difficult.

It is very interesting, indeed. The wave image is also very suitable. Thank you. I am sorry that I don't know, what Surfism means.

I should be qualified to define Surfism. It is my attempt to describe the nature of Being, through analogy to surfing.

Just a little follow up to a Gaussian toy model. Since Galina professionally deals with the "outer space", I think the following analogy would be quite appropriate. We know that currently there are two main scenarios regarding the fate of our Universe. According to one of them, the Universe was created from "nothing" (the nature of this "nothing" is not really important in this context) as a result of a huge explosion (or "Big Bang") and will continue to expand forever, getting colder and colder. According to the second competing scenario, the expansion of the Universe will eventually come to an end and it will start a comeback to its initial state (a contraction scenario) till its final collapse (or crunch) into "nothingness". Well, it's really hard to say which one of these scenarios would be better for our "descendants" but this is not the reason I brought it up. Let us project these two scenarios on the Gaussian lifespan. First of all, the human birth is a true "Big Bang" event. Even though we are quite aware of this biological process (and think that we know "where babies are coming from"), we still consider each and every birth as a miracle of life, as a creation of someone's own personal "universe". Now, according to the first scenario of "never-ending expansion", human life on Earth(?) would be eternal. Well, I guess immortality would be nice, for a change. However, it looks like we(?) have chosen the second path with "ups" and "downs". Come to think of it, this actualy might be a better choice. More fun than with eternity. Anyway, after a "Big Bang" miracle of birth, we keep ourselves busy with climbing up the hill (that is with "expanding" our knowledge about the world we are living in) till we reach the top. The thirst for knowlegde "expansion" is almost completely satisfied and gradually gets replaced with something else (money, job, health, family matters, you name it). Then we look around (tired and disappointed) and decide to go back to the times (and places) when (and where) we were young, happy and careless. Unfortunately, we can't take the same road we came by to the top (life appears to be irreversible). So, we are bound to continue our voyage towards our own demise using another path (the right side of the curve) paying less and less attention to people around us and more frequently reminiscenting on good old days ("brain contraction" has already begun and is speeding up) till we are left with nothing else but our own memories, finally collapsing (or crunching?) into the initial "unborn" state. One cycle of life (our internal "universe") is ended. Let the new one begin!

Thanks for the “galactic” view, indeed, at our life. Let us emphasize only the difference: the first scenario is for the outer Universe, and the second one is for a personal “internal universe”.

Dear Sergey,

Very interesting!

Panagiotis Stefanides

To Daniel Webber:

Would you like to formulate shortly “the nature of Being, through analogy to surfing”?

OK, Galina, I also find an eternal life scenario less attractive. Too boring.

Sergei,

I love the poetry of your vision, but, although I am tempted to acquiesce to your 'galactic logic' and lean back in the armchair of my 'soft middle age' and reflect upon the inevitability of things, I am reminded of another poet - Dylan Thomas, who was more inclined to 'rage' at the notion.

A friend of mine - the artist and poet Paul Southwood, sees death as a necessary and intrinsic part of life - and his art reflects this. During the course of our lives he and I have crossed swords on the subject and have never resolved the issue.

I concede that death has been with us for a long time - but not always in the same form. For billions of years there were only single celled organisms. The death rate of singled celled organisms often does not follow a Gaussian distribution - it is more accurately described by a half life curve. This is also true of the rates at which complex biological molecules may become denaturized in the body.

The 'normal' death rate distributions are only associated with complex multi-cellular organisms.

A half life curve describes a system with no 'memory'. The likelihood of an event (in this case death) of happening is the same all the time. Often, systems that behave this way are intrinsically stable, and only fail as the consequence of an unpredictable event or condition - a spanner in the works.

If cell damage and death only occurs as the result of unexpected or unpredictable events (toxins, radiation etc), as the half life curve suggests (rather than death occurring as a result of things 'wearing out'), then the 'natural state' of ANY living thing is to persist - to survive - to be!

Death may be a contingency that we must deal with at a practical level; the price we must pay for our complex 'ontology', but it is not intrinsic to the living state.

Again, I very much like your 'life as microcosm of the universe' idea. However, personally, I am inspired by the idea that life and the universe exist in a necessary relationship.

My research strongly points to the possibility that the evolution f life is the evolution of catalysis.

If this assertion proves to be correct then it would seem that the universe itself may be sowing the seeds of its own demise.

Even as we scribble our picture of the universe is changing - I think that many of us now believe that the universe is probably teeming with life.

I wonder what the biomass of the galaxy is at this very moment!!

At what rate is it increasing?

Would we expect the increasing biomass of the universe effect its evolution?

If the biomass of the universe is significantly large would the universe behave in a strange way?

Dark Matter???

Dark energy???

Dear Sidney, imagination is a gift. Not everybody is blessed with it. Knowledge is a must needed to survive in this cruel world. Without it you are doomed.

Christopher,

no offence but I think you're taking death issues far too seriously. A sheer image of biomass in the Universe gives me the creeps and scares the hell out of me. Reminds a horror movie. That's why I always liked the song "Live and Let Die!". Makes more sense. When I hear "why we are here?", "what is the Grand plan of our Maker?", "what is the Purpose of our life?" Bla-bla-bla. We are here to ENJOY our lives and to have FUN as long and as much as we possibly can, keeping in mind that our biological clock is ticking and there is nothing we can do to slow it down. And one more thing. As a very famous personage from the immortal novel "Master and Margarita" by of Mikhail Bulgakov pointed out: "Yes, a man is mortal. But the real problem is that sometimes a man is suddenly mortal". Therefore, enjoy every moment of your life as if it were the last one.

Carlos,

I think that you have misunderstood me!

I am a writer also.......

........was it just conceit

composed this tragedy

of lost forever might-have-beens and memories?

The truth is: “I - HAVE - NO - TIME!”

Life was just a short walk

and through the mist

I see the cliffs

falling away forever.

The earth's grave suck

is calling me!,

beguiling me! - to sleep.

I must - to dust - resolve.

But high above - my sounding spire

still utters of that sudden spring;

cathedral echoes faintly sing

my evening eyes remembering.

I see the cliffs! (the virgin cliffs),

assailed by storming oceans

crashing... bursting.

And the wind's capricious lust

that loves - and dreams,

it lifts the living shard of silk:

the flashing seagull screams:-

believing in eternal flight;

abandoned cries 'I am a God!' - and flies

in star-toothed night.

Thank you, Christopher. Sad and yet very beautiful.

Sergei

Thanks Sergei,

Here is the complete poem.

Enjoy,

Chris

Sidney Clouston,

But knowledge or Wisdom is of no use when we dont use it.

Ustinova

There is a great bridge between science and truth. Everything cant be explained by science. But truth is limited only to people who attain unexplained concept called 'Enlightenment'. So make your journey towards those people who has attained this concept. Iam pretty sure you will get answers......

Dear Sowmya,

There is a lot of people in our world, who has attained this concept. I am happy that I know many of them, more over, I live among them. I believe that you will meet yet such people on your way. I wish you to be happy.

Chris,

I'm still under impression. Is it autobiographical?

Sergei

To Sidney Clouston:

You are right; slowing down of time in the moving systems relatively to an observer in the fixed one is a main result of the Einstein special theory of relativity (at the speed near to it of light). Without any science base we believe also that live is in motion.

In accordance with your next comment, I would like to remember allegedly possible competition between Einstein and Edison: which of them more knows. Edison has said that he can answer to any question up to schedules of trains of any station. Einstein has said that he is not need to remember that, which he may find in any railway guide. It means that Einstein deliberately and intuitively confined himself from unnecessary knowledge that his brain has more free space for creation.

Indeed, everybody knows how is important to have as much as possible information on the problem, which it is necessary to solve, especially, if the problem are at the junction of a several fields of sciences. Nevertheless, it appears that it is not enough to be erudite. Your brain must have a lot of free cells, which operating could derive right associations between (would think) quite different points. In other words, an operative free space is necessary for intuition, inspiration, i.e. for creation. It is apparently known in informatics as operative memory.

It is very interesting, whether anything is known on the subject in neuroscience.

Sergei,

Did you read it???

The poem took 13 yeas to write. I was not the same person when I finished it.

Is it autobiographical?

I think all inspired writing is ultimately about the author.

I might be both the old man AND the Burglar.

Chris

Thank you, Chris. I read it three times trying to figure out a real "age" of a burglar. Now I get it. This is exactly what I wanted to hear. And I bet you're BOTH. Thanks again.

Sergei

Sergei,

By way of explanation.

The Burglar is surprised by the old man - the Burglar is going to kill the old man.

But the old says he will pay the Burglar if the Burglar will listen to the old man's life story.

The old man tells his tale and the young burglar finds himself enchanted by it and he cannot move.

The old man steals the Burglar's youth.

The Burglar has his final speech as an old man.

Nothing in return?

Nothing, except at he end, when the Burglar has his final speech, the way he describes the seagull is in marked contrast to the way that the old man describes the dying seagull when he is ranting against the injustice of life and old age.

At the end the Burglar still has his soul intact - he truly understands the beauty of life.

I sent you the poem because I thought that much of it echoed your own love and enthusiasm for life.

That is why I'm so eager to discuss it. You're right. It does resonate with my own perceptions of life.

Thank you Galina.

According to Surfism, the surfer’s trajectory corresponds to the observer’s perspective, with the interface between surfboard and wave corresponding to spatial perception. The shape of the wave represents optic flow, in the sense that waves respond to the shape of the reef in the same way optic flow responds to the shape of one’s surroundings. The penetration of the surfboard corresponds to depth perception, because the interplay between wave and surfboard is analogous to the interplay of movements that reveal the depth of space to the observer. The shape of the wave continues to represent optic flow, but now there is another physical element, in the form of a surfboard penetrating the surface of the wave, which can be likened to spatial features penetrating the apparent motion of optic flow.

In my book (attached), I present numerous parallels between surfing and various aspects of Being. Please feel free to share the pdf with others and don't hesitate to criticise. Thanks!

Book Surfism: The fluid foundation of consciousness

It is very expressive conception, indeed! Thank you very much, Daniel. I need time to grasp your book. Unfortunately, I can never feel the waves of surfing in nature.

After his friend's death A. Einstein wrote to the sister and son: 'Michel has preceded me a little in leaving this strange world. This is not important. For us, who are convinced physicists, the distinction between past, present, and future is only an illusion, however persistent' Einstein-Besso correspondence, Ed. P. Speziali, Paris; Hermann 1972, pp 537-539.

Thank you, Giuseppe.