If there are sustainability gaps, then there are market illusions as well as broken circular economic structures.
Hence there is a market illusion associated with red socialism/Karl Marx and with pure capitalism/Adam Smith as each of these models has specific sustainability gaps embedded in them.
Can you see these market illusions, the red socialism market illusion and the pure capitalism market illusion?
Please provide your own views on the question, I will appreciate that.
Dear Lucio,
For Smith I think the big gap is that he did not address class conflicts. For Marx the big gap is an array of counteracting tendencies. Their vision in those regards may be illusionary.
Dear Lall, thank you for your comment...We are here just to share ideas....
To be able to see the illusions fully it is better to think in terms of the externality neutrality assumptions those models are built on, ,,,, then we can see the illusions go beyond class conflict or counter reactions,,,,
If we express those models in terms the social or economy or environmental sustainability gaps associated with their externality neutrality assumptions we can clearly state the illusions,,,, it is a way of looking at cold war structures from the sustainability angle.... Do you know the externality neutrality assumptions of each model? If yes, you can see and state the illussions.
Respectfully yours
Dear Lucio,
What you propose is a modern/popular way to look at the situation which is not to say that it is not a real way to proceed. But traditional Smithians/Marxians have looked at their vision of economics from the point of view of business decline and decay that seems to saddle with the evolutionary paradigm.
Dear Lall, sometimes new knowledge allows you to see why things did not work in the past, ......
As you know the class struggle did not work as shown by the fall of red socialism in 1991(1848 to 1991 life), and the business as usual economic model did not work either as shown my the move towards green markets since 2012 Rio +20(1776 to 2012 life).
But you can not see why they did not work and what to do from inside the box....you can use sustainability gap theory to have an outside the box view of the same issues from the sustainability point of view and go that way beyond red socialism and beyond pure capitalism thinking....and gain that way a systematic understanding of the past and the future....
However, your comment is moving us away from the actual question here, which is about the illusions associated with each model.... you can think in terms of clash of classes if you want and still see the illusions that brought these two models down,,, but you have to look at those clashes from outside the box....
I appreciate your comment Lall, let's try to focus on the illusions now, can you see them?
Respectfully yours;
Lucio,
It seem that what you call "illusions" goes by an older name called "hitches." Schumpeter classified the classical models as "hitchless". But later external hitches were found such as diminishing returns and Malthusian population growth.
Now, the UN's WCED has proposed sustainability as a new hitch in order to give future generation opportunities as rich and diverse as the present generation in the face of problems with the use of renewable, exhaustable, and environmental resources. It appear as an external hitch based on some moral philosophy.
Dear Lall, thank you for commenting.
Yes, the market illusions can be stated in terms of hicthes too, hitches that can be opened and closed through externalization/internalization processes, and they go one to one with amorality/morality considerations.
Expressing those models in terms of sustainability gaps or hitches helps to see the illusions under each of them operates....
I think you will find the following papers full of food for thoughts as they are related to the ideas behind sustainability gap theory and their application, which you can also see in terms of hitches....
Chapter 2 Paradigm Evolution and Sustainability Thinking: Using a Sustainability Inversegram to State Paradigm Death and Shift Expectations Under Win-Win and No Win-Win Situations
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/333866783_Chapter_2_Paradigm_Evolution_and_Sustainability_Thinking_Using_a_Sustainability_Inversegram_to_State_Paradigm_Death_and_Shift_Expectations_Under_Win-Win_and_No_Win-Win_Situations
Adam Smith and Karl Marx Under the Sustainability Eye: Pointing Out and Comparing the Sustainability Gaps Behind these Two Great Simplification Failures
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/299885202_Adam_Smith_and_Karl_Marx_Under_the_Sustainability_Eye_Pointing_Out_and_Comparing_the_Sustainability_Gaps_Behind_these_Two_Great_Simplification_Failures
Sustainability thoughts 105: An overview of the externality structure of all possible markets and of the specific market illusion under which each of them operates.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/340133824_Sustainability_thoughts_105_An_overview_of_the_externality_structure_of_all_possible_markets_and_of_the_specific_market_illusion_under_which_each_of_them_operates
In a globalized world, we have to think about state-market interactions at different levels. It is not either market or state in driving economic success. At the micro-level or corporate and commercial investments, the market remains the decisive and most efficient way to allocate resources and achieve efficiency. At the national level, however, we need a cohesive and unifying polity to ensure stability for the economy. More importantly, economic governance needs persistent belief and guidance in national development.
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