According to quantum physics there is also a transition domain or else domain wall in every dipole field where where magnetism sudden flips polarity. Where is this transition zone on earth's magnetic dipole field if not on the equator?

geometry of a dipole magnetic field is independent of magnet shape and always the same for any dipole magnet

Dear Aleš Kralj ,

wow great job and simulation on the above video!

So i guess the latest field image today is the one shown here.

This is actually a standard single dipole field.

However you didn't understand my question. I am not asking about Earth magnetic polarity flips but why a Global compass needle (http://www.thecompassstore.com/whatisglobne.html) does not flip 180 degrees when travelling from one hemisphere to the other? Assuming the picture of the dipole field of the Earth today is the one included here in this message.

Dear M. Alvioli ,

As it is showing in your simulation you provided compass is tuning on the strongest and closest pole position. Because magnetic core diameter is a fraction of Earth's diameter, one should expect as you physically overpass in distance over the core along a meridian line, at some point after the equator and towards the middle of the hemisphere, the compass to flip pointing towards the physical location of the core. See my video demonstration.

Kind Regards,

Emmanouil Markoulakis

figure 1. iron junks clearly flipped pointing towards direction of closest pole

Dear Thierry,

" The compass never "flips" because the magnetic field lines have only one direction. In a compass, the needle has been magnetized in such way that it follows the magnetic field lines. "

I must disagree, iron junks because strongly ferromagnetic have minimum magnetic reluctance and are able to show only highest potential force line towards the closest pole from their initial location in space. The actually can show only one force vector the one pointing to the direction of the closest magnetic pole in their vicinity.

Look at the picture you provided, these two are clearly flipped in opposite directions orienting themselves in such a way for minimum magnetic reluctance each pointing to the direction of the closest pole.

Compass needles are mostly iron with a piece 2-3mm magnetized so they behave like iron junks really.

So no. Compasses flip direction when closer to one pole than the other as I also clearly demonstrated on my video here.

Also notice iron filings are insensitive to depict the variable spatial magnetic flux of the field of the magnet and therefore fail miserably to depict the magnetic imprint of the field of a magnet.

In order to do so you need superparamagnetic single domain magnetite nanoparticles device like a ferrolens:

https://www.researchgate.net/post/Why_we_are_wrong_about_the_field_of_a_magnet?_ec=topicPostOverviewAuthoredQuestions

Turns out that iron fillings orient themselves always perpendicular to the actual force lines of of a dipole magnet which has a vortex-toroid geometry and therefore iron was giving us for the last 200 years a false imprint of the magnetic flux trajectories of the field of a dipole magnet.

Here is the correct pole flux geometry depicted by a ferrolens on real-time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aRxyRuGP2c

Kind Regards,

Emmanouil

Dear Emmanouil,

Earth as you know has two North Poles, the geographic North Pole, that never changes and the magnetic North Pole, which is always in movement and presently moving faster than in the past. In particular, in about 150 years, the North Magnetic Pole moved about 685 miles through northern Canada.The surface of the Earth behaves like a magnetized bar. Our compasses point to one pole at a time, because Earth makes up a system with two dominant poles. A very interesting question: will Earth experience one day magnetic polar flip? Best regards.

The Earth is nonuniform and have complicated structure. Therefore dipole and multipole fields are only models. Real magnetic field gives infinite series.

The Earth's magnetic field isn't exactly a dipole-but quite closely so.

Its equator doesn't have anything to do with the subject, however.

A magnetic moment (e.g. a compass needle) aligns itself with the external field, that's all. The component along the magnetic field is conserved-a straightforward consequence of precession.

Still, as you go past the physical location of the Earth's magnetic core dynamo, which is smaller than diameter of Earth, towards say geographic North, in some point core magnetic pole must be down and behind you and compass should flip pointing to the core magnetic pole behind you...

...But it does not!

What I am asking you is essentially this:

Shouldn't the strength of the Earth's magnetic field be the strongest on Earth's core surface and not on the projected field on the Earth's surface crust?

And what happens if one goes past a magnetic pole on Earth Surface and continue straight at the same meridian... will then the compass flip? Any empirical evidence?

I assuming that I am equipped with a suitable compass which can equally indicate the horizontal as well vertical part of the field and doesn't get stuck.

A magnetic moment aligns with the field-whatever the direction. And it precesses, if it's not aligned. That's all that happens. It doesn't ``flip'' , with respect to the field, because the component along the field is conserved during precession.

This is independent of whether the magnetic field itself is produced by a dipole or a higher multipole.

I totally agree with you but this is not the case I am asking here.

Did you see my video demonstration?

Relative spatial location of compass to the poles of a magnet will flip the compass needle so that the opposite magnetic poles of needle and magnet are facing each other. Meaning the net relation between compass needle and a dipole magnet is always attractive and not repulsive.

If the magnetic field is of constant direction, the compass doesn't flip, because the component of the magnetization, that's parallel to the field remains constant.

If the magnetic field isn't of constant direction, the component of the magnetization along it will follow the field, of course.

However, if the direction of the magnetic field doesn't change sign, the component of the magnetization along it will not change sign, either, since it's always along the magnetic field-that's why it won't ``flip''.

That's why a compass needle doesn't change orientation, when taken across the equator-because the magnetic field of the Earth, while it may vary in direction, doesn't flip, across the equator.

These statements are independent of whether the magnetic field is a dipole or not, since what matters is the relative orientation of magnetization and field.

Of course, if the compass needle is constrained to rotate about some other axis, it will do so-but that doesn't have anything to do with question asked. Conflating the two issues doesn't make sense.

The repulsion between magnetic poles is true and if you consider to small equivalent magnets you are going to see that there is torque which makes them to always have NS or SN and never NN or SS. But the case of the Earth is a very weak magnet (around 0.5 Oe) that its poles don't interact really with the ones of the compass. Thus the compass acts as it were within a homogeneous magntic field H between its Earth magnetic poles going from S to N.

Dear Professor Daniel Baldomir,

quote:

"But the case of the Earth is a very weak magnet (around 0.5 Oe) that its poles don't interact really with the ones of the compass. Thus the compass acts as it were within a homogeneous magntic field H between its Earth magnetic poles going from S to N. "

I think you are right. I thought also about that but needed a confirmation.

Devil is hiding always in the details...

Thank you for your input.

Kind Regards,

Emmanouil Markoulakis

Technological Educational Institute of Crete

At the Earth's North Pole is (approximately) the south pole of the Earth's magnetic field. Similarly at the Earth's South Pole we have, again approximately, the north pole of the Earth's magnetic field. The compass needle's north pole thus is attracted in the direction of the Earth's North Pole, and the needle's south pole is attracted to the Earth's South Pole. Both ends of the needle are thus attracted in such a way that the needle will always be in an NS direction, with the needles north pole pointing approximately to the geographic North. For confirmation see

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%27s_magnetic_field

To clarify my capitalisation conventions: capital North is a geographic concept whereas north pole is something that refers to a magnetic field.

It is sad to see that among professional scientists erroneous statements such as uttered above by Daniel Baldomir can find acceptance.

Dear Professor F. Leyvraz,

The argument here is not whether the magnetic needle magnetic moment aligning with Earth's magnetic polar field but what happens when physical location of compass needle overshoots and overpasses at a distance physical location of magnetic core... will then not the compass re orient itself so that one of its poles is pointing to the Earth's core pole nearest to it of opposite polarity? meaning compass needle will flip?

Kind Regards,

Emmanouil Markoulakis

TEI of Crete

Dear Dr. Ulrich Mutze

Please refrain from inflammatory comments.

Unless you are suggesting that material from core surface out to the outer crust of Earth is net ferromagnetic or paramagnetic Earth magnetic dipole field generated by dynamo effect on the core which has a diameter much less than Earth's overall diameter must be spatial localized therefore a flip of the compass should happen as I have demonstrated on my video when we overpass on the surface the projected physical location of the Earth's core were the magnetic dipole field is at the strongest.

Magnetic poles of core and needle facing each other must be always opposite in polarity! And the only way this to occur with the conditions I described is the needle to flip 180 degrees traveling across a meridian and overshooting the projected on the surface spatial location relative small core.

BUT IT DOES NOT!!... WHY??

The only vital explanation so far I believe is the one given by Professor Baldomir, If you have any other explanation to add in this thread here, please do so.

The only other physical explanation of this phenomenon i can think of is Earth's magnetic field not being actually a dipole field but rather a magnetic monopole!! and its spatial location not at the core...

Or else can it be Earth magnetic dipole field spatial locations of poles not to be located on Earth?

Therefore I have reformat the Question title to:

" Is Earth's magnetic field really a magnetic monopole?..."

Kind Regards,

Emmanouil

Technological Educational Institute of Crete

Greece

Dear Doctor Andrey Yakovlev,

quote:

"The Earth is nonuniform and have complicated structure. Therefore dipole and multipole fields are only models. Real magnetic field gives infinite series."

Yes I agree but there must be a net result. Other else for different locations on Earth the compass will point at different locations for magnetic North or South...

Kind Regards,

Emmanouil

@Emmanouil,

if you discuss your needle problem in terms of magnetic charges, you have four magnetic poles and ask for the torque acting on your needle. For most physicists (at least for me) the situation is too complicated to be solved by simple arguments (such as asking for the nearest poles). Try it with a computer program (for the computer two opposite poles are simpler to handle than true dipoles) and you will find that your needle will never feel a flipping torque (unless the needle is larger than the magnet as is the case in your video)! This experience will increase your appreciation of the conventional explanation based on field lines and their (local) action on magnetic dipoles (model for the compass needle). Daniels contribution (which provoced my harsh critique due to its nebulous remarks concerning the weakness of Earth's magnetic field, which actually is irrelevant for the correct explanation) is correct in referring to the locally homogeneous magnetic field (for which we all know the behavior of a compass needle) . By the way, all what needs to be said to free an open-minded person from a misconception such as your's was already said by M. Alvioli early in this discussion.

Dear Dr. Ulrich Mutze,

Thank you for your expert input.

Kind Regards,

Emmanouil Markoulakis

TEI of Crete

Dear Dr. Ulrich Mutze,

quote:

" Try it with a computer program (for the computer two opposite poles are simpler to handle than true dipoles) and you will find that your needle will never feel a flipping torque (unless the needle is larger than the magnet as is the case in your video)! "

As an afterthought to your above notion that...

...the relative small size needle compared to the Earth Magnetic field volume implied by you being responsible for not producing enough torque to flip the needle is however I believe compensated by the larger magnetic moment of a compass needle which has a magnetic strength multiple times larger than Earth's magnetic field on surface thus 0.3 to 0.5 Gauss field strength.

So relative size of needle should not play any role in our case.

The compass needle should flip when overshooting in distance magnetic core to maintain opposite polarity I submit. But of course I could be wrong.

Hi,

Geographic North Pole: point of convergence of longitudinal lines (North Pole). Magnetic North Pole: point where the northern magnetic lines "enter" the Earth.

The steel needle of the compass turns until it lines up with this external magnetic field. The Earth behaves as a giant magnet.

The needle of the compass thus points to the Magnetic North Pole. But the needle of the compass may point, depending the location, to an intermediate direction due to the effect of magnetic inclination. The magnetic north of the Earth suffers continuous change due to the hot and liquid metal that surrounds its inner core.

Hi Emmanouil

The interaction between the magnetized metal needle vec{N} and the magnetic field vec{B} of the Earth is of the type "vec{B} scalar product vec{N}". This is the reason the needle has a tendency to line up with the magnetic field of the Earth.

@Emmanouil,

there is no principle of 'maintaining opposite polarity'. This may be surprising at first glance since such a principle seems to govern the behavior of two magnets when these are close together. If you would repeat your video experiment with the magnet placed at the center of a round cheese box and would move your compass along a path outside the box (and in the plane of the table on which the box is placed) then you could experience, and hopefully understand, what is going on. When I was young there were no affordable sufficiently strong magnets for this to work. Today we are in an ideal position with respect to becoming familiar with magnetism in the way of direct sensorial experience.

Finally, I don't recognize any resemblance between what you describe as 'my notion' and what I wrote.

quote Cesar Zen Vasconcellos :

" The interaction between the magnetized metal needle vec{N} and the magnetic field vec{B} of the Earth is of the type "vec{B} scalar product vec{N}". This is the reason the needle has a tendency to line up with the magnetic field of the Earth. "

that is just a transformation A*B*cosφ to a point like field (scalar), I can do that with any two vectors, doesn't really provide a physical explanation of the argument.

quote M. Alvioli:

" Plus there is no quantum-whatever involved in the physics of a compass interacting with the Earth's magnetic field. "

...not so sure about that.

Dear Ulrich,

I didn't see your mention to me till now, please could you be so kind to tell me where is my fault?

Ulrich said> It is sad to see that among professional scientists erroneous statements such as uttered above by Daniel Baldomir can find acceptance.

sorry but I find it hard to believe theoretical analysis over experiment.

If what you are suggesting that my first video experiment (look at initial question) is NOT emulating correctly compass needle and Earth's magnetic field interaction is true, then also this here my second video experiment will be also NOT true!

BUT IT IS!

Unless, you are suggesting crossing over Earth's Magnetic North pole (south polarity) and continuing at a straight direction on the same meridian will not flip the needle 180 degrees pointing now at Earth's pole behind me!

Again I assume a global needle is used which can also register the vertical flux of the Earth's magnetic field.

Earth's North magnetic pole (south polarity) - compass emulation experiment video :

https://youtu.be/WtbLUqJjE3g

Experiment details:

Ring magnet placed at center with its south pole facing up emulates Earth's magnetic North. First i move the compass around the pole and then on a straight crossover trajectory. Needle clearly flips when crossing the North pole location.

After these two experiments and knowing that experiment 2 represents reality but video experiment 1 does not represent reality, this can mean only one thing.

THERE IN NO ANY MAGNETIC POLE AT THE SOUTH GEOGRAPHIC POLE OR ANY NEAR TO IT

BUT OBVIOUSLY THIS CAN NOT BE UNLESS EARTH IS A MAGNETIC MONOPOLE...

SO MY FINAL CONCLUSION IS THAT THE EXPLANATION GIVEN BY PROFESSOR BALDOMIR IS I THE CORRECT ONE.

...or is it not?...

Dear Ulrich Mutze,

Dear Ulrich,

Let me try to explain a little bit what I tried to say in answer to this question. If you had to magnets (with almost similar magnetic moment) and you tried to put them as

+ ------------- -

+ ------------ -

You couldn't, at least that you were continously applying one torque oppositing to the one that magnetic poles were doing. But if you had a configuration as that

D

+--- -

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -

The small dipole D couldn't interact with the poles of the Earth. It would do it only with an effective magnetic field which (it depends of the point) will be almost constant and 0.5 Oe. If you want, for your surely interesting simulations, put the nonlinear dipolar interaction to work given the distances of the Earth poles and the compass poles. After that go increasing the magnetic field of the Earth poles and you would notice that at certain value the compass shall behave as two usual compasses. Have you understood it now? Do you need more help? In any case, thanks in advance for your considerations. I'm just a humble physicist whose central subject of research was always the magnetism.

The D small dipole should be in the middle of the big one for showing the equator, but the RG editor doesn't allow it.

@Daniel,

although I hold the opinion that a physicist should be able envision everything, I havn't any idea how a compass could behave as two compasses. Please, try to express yourselve less cryptically.

Dear Emmanouil Markoulakis

I think you missed my point. Classical magnetic interaction between two magnets "mimic" in some way the quantum interaction of for instance the Heisenberg quantum Hamiltonian model for the interaction between spin Si and Sj operators located in lattice sites:

H = (1/2) Sum i,j Jij vec{S}i scalar product vec{S}j

Here i and j refer to sites on a lattice. The spin interaction Si.Sj is called an exchange interaction, and the coefficients Jij are called exchange constants.

Now returning to the classical case, this is the reason why I expressed the interaction between the compass needle and the Earth magnetic field B as vec{N}.vec{B}. This expression is not proof of what happens, but rather the opposite: it is a theoretical description of experimental data and facts. And this is the function of a physicist, to look for theoretical explanations based on observation. That is, this form of interaction (vec{N}.vec{B}) allows a better understanding of why the compass needle has a tendency to align with the orientation of the Earth's magnetic field.

But you're right about the scalar product in the sense that the theta angle has two values (but) in the quantum world (without the presence of forces that produce spin precessions, for instance), 0 degrees or 180 degrees. In the classical world this does not necessarily occur.

You are also rigth in the sense that the magnetic field of the Earth is fairly weak on the surface. For this reason the compass is composed by a light weight magnet and a frictionless suport. And It does not matter where you are on Earth. While holding a compass, its south pole will always have a tendency to point to the magnetic North Pole. You can assume, if you want a more simple classical description: the attraction force between opposite poles.

Dear Cesar,

Heisenberg, Ising, Hubbard or other Hamiltonians able to give the exchange interaction J between spins are absolutely out of this duiscussion. You are speaking about objects purely quantum which must follow the Pauli's exclusion principle and so on. Magnetic poles are not spins although they may be associated to the magnetic field.

On the other hand the magnetic field is not so wise as you and it has not knowledge of what a scalar product is. They only follow the magnetic field!

Dear Ulrich,

Let us go to the North pole of the Earth and take your compass. Would it change, for instance, the direction SN for NS, why? What is the information given to the compass for changing the direction? Do you see the two magnets?

@Emmanouil,

why do you change the topic? My only intent is to free you from your fixed idea of a needle flip at the magnetic equator. If there are other aspects of the magnetic field which you don't understand, please rely on others to discuss them. By the way, you misunderstand global needles. These are not sensitive to the vertical component of the field. They simply are designed such that their turnability in the horizontal plane is not obstructed too much by the vertical component. A simple and effective global needle is a bar magnet placed on a plate floating on a water surface. To achieve the same effect in a small freely transportable compass is a simple engineering task. Of course, there are also instruments for showing and measuring the vertical component of the Earth's magnetic field (inclinometers if I remember right).

Dear Ulrich Mutze,

Why don't respond to my clear question?

Quantum field Geometry of dipole magnet illustration

@ Dr. Ulrich Mutze

Inclinometers it is then. Although this will not change the fact that after a sufficient distance is established after passing over Earth magnetic North the inclinometer or even a normal compass needle will flip.

quote:

"My only intent is to free you from your fixed idea of a needle flip at the magnetic equator. If there are other aspects of the magnetic field which you don't understand, please rely on others to discuss them. "

Thank you and I really appreciate it . However, I never leave a question on RG if there is no much more in it.

There will soon I hope be a new publication by me. I am holding experimental data and analysis proving the field geometry of any dipole magnet not just to be a sphere but actually consists of two hemispherical toroidal fields, each on every pole of a magnet and separated by the domain wall (Bloch or Neel) at the the middle of the magnet. Gyromagnetig ratio is maintained in this new magnetic dipole field geometry.

This new novel observation Quantum field geometry of a static dipole magnetic field differs from the macroscopic magnetic imprint of the field as observed by the classical iron filings experiment, in that there is no flux lines on the magnetic field connecting directly N and S poles of the magnet but two separate and discrete flux circuits closing between each pole and the middle, thus domain wall of the magnet.

I observed and measured this geometry on every single dipole magnet i could get... all returning the same results. This new field geometry made possible to be observed for the first time by a relative new nanomagnetic direct observation device, the ferrolens which can show in real-time, regions on the magnetic field previously not possible to be shown in detail by the iron fillings experiment and also magnetic quantum effect like the domain wall of a magnet and what is happening on the flux on that region.

So hopefully you may now understand why I am wondering and asked why the Earth's magnetic net dipole field should be an exception to this new Quantum field geometry observed ? Unless it is a monopole? or all these wonderful explanations you are given me in this thread here and I thank you.

Kind Regards,

Emmanouil Markoulakis

TEI of Crete

copyright©Emmanouil Markoulakis TEI Of Crete 2018

Dear Ulrich Mutze,

There is a thing that you can understand very easily, by a magnet and try to see the North or the South poles. We have magnets of 5 teslas that this orientation of the Earth is absolutely negligable. Thus if you got to notice measure or take into account the magnetic field of the Earth magnetism, this means that you magnet has to have a comparable strenght. In another case one is independent of the other.

Sorry I forgot a u to put buy a magnet instead of by a magnet

Dear Emmanouil,

I am surprise with your figure, now I don't understand it at all. What is that? That is not magnetism or at least not only magnetism.

Dear All,

I am afraid you have to wait for my publication.

RG Project page:

https://www.researchgate.net/project/The-quantum-field-of-a-magnet

My Previous ferrolens publication:

Article Real Time Visualization of Dynamic Magnetic Fields with a Na...

Kind Regards,

Emmanouil Markoulakis

Technological Educational Institute of Crete

Greece

Dear Emmanouil,

I don't understand it but it is a beautiful image. Imagination to the power! Congratulations.

I ensure this is not imagination but instead very real.

@Daniel,

your notion of a 'clear question' seems do differ considerably from mine.

I see no question and no clarification concerning your 'two usal compasses' (which I asked you to provide).

Dear Daniel

Yes. Of course. You are absolutely right. This is the reason why I use the word "mimic". On the other hand you should remember that the intrinsic spin of a particle, doesn't matter if electrically charged or not, behave as a magnetic dipole field.

Sorry Emmanouil,

I know the pattern all too well from my times with the industry. Whenever inventors where shown that something in their phantastic proposal could not work they came up with something different, equally impossible. I'm not willing to enter such a game again.

Dear Cesar,

A magnetic pole as we are using here is not related at all with one spin. The spin is pure quantum object living in a representation of the Lorentz group. It is true that the spin of a particle has magnetic moment (not all the spins have the same magnetic moment, for instance the neutron and the electron has a very different magnetic moment) which can be associated a dipolar magnetic moment.

In any case it is an absolute non sense speaking about a Heisenberg Hamiltonian for the magnetism of the Earth, among other things the magnetism of the Earth has not is origin in addition of spins like in a ferromagnet.

Dear Ulrich Mutze,

You are mocking me, you know perfectly that one magnet is the compass needle and the other is the Earth. It seems that you remember yet that I told you that the second Newton law cannot be translated in Quantum Mechanics, where the concept of trajectory doesn't exist. Although it is not the subject here in this thread let me to show you a paper more for your collection:

Inadequacy of Ehrenfest’s theorem to characterize the classical regime

L. E. Ballentine, Yumin Yang, and J. P. Zibin

Phys. Rev. A 50, 2854 – Published 1 October 1994

@Daniel,

fine. Put your 5 Tesla magnet into a wooden bowl and put the ship to water. You will observe that the ship will align with NS-direction. The directing torque is always the vector-product of the magnetic moment of your magnet and the strength of the external field. Every physicist in his scientific childhood should have felt surprise about the fact that the motion of an electron can be influenced by moderate electric fields e.g. in radio tubes while their own field in their immediate surrounding is many orders of magnitude larger. Your idea that Earth's magnetic field influences only magnets that have 'comparable strength' is a misconception that one would not expect from a physicist 'whose central subject of research was always the magnetism'. On the other hand, if you could substantiate this claim it would be a scientific sensation and the next Nobel laureate would stand firm.

@Daniel,

you wrote:

'After that go increasing the magnetic field of the Earth poles and you would notice that at certain value the compass shall behave as two usual compasses.'

I thought you speak about an magnetizing effect which the hypothetically growing earth-field would generate. Being interested in the modes in human understanding and misunderstanding I would really like to know what this cited sentence says or tries to say. And, be assured that no mocking on my side is in the game.

Dear Ulrich Mutze,

UM>I thought you speak about an magnetizing effect which the hypothetically growing earth-field would generate.

Your capacity of thinking is very high because you can invent wanderful effects of magnetization of the Earth quite unknown for me. But in any case, thank you very much for thinking that I could be able to do such kind of discoveries.

Dear Ulrich Mutza,

I challenge you to do it, put a boat with a magnet of 5 teslas and wait to align it with the magnetic field of the Earth. Go ahead!

But please don't cheat and use the Ehrenfest's theorem to apply new Newtonian trajectories in Quantum Mechanics for making macroscopic tunnel effects.

Daniel,

don't be silly. When I proposed to place your magnet into a wooden bowl it should be clear that the 'boat' is metaphorical, a toy boat at best. The experiment could probably be done in your bath tub. However, I know only of 1 T permanent magnets, so your 5 T magnet could be a heavy machine and then the above proposal would be ridiculous. But also in this case an experiment with one of those ubiquitous neodym 1T magnets of a few grams would probe your idea that only magnets of 'a comparable strength' could be aligned by the Earth's magnetic field. A few years ago, when the first neodym magnets were used in the company I worked for, I made such an experiment as a demonstration to my children. The wooden disk on which I glued the magnet aligned fast and stable in north south direction in a washing basin. So, again I was not mocking you, and the undefeatable teacher in me would be glad if you would learn something from this discours.

Gr8 thread

I support the view of Dr. Thierry

Dear Ulrich,

Let me start that the challenge was with respect to your sentence:

Put your 5 Tesla magnet into a wooden bowl and put the ship to water

Respect to do it in my bath, you are right that I hope is enough clean, but I wouldn't do never it in yours. I see that you have time to devote a silly thing, as you call it, but I don't want to do it. And if you tell me that you had a neodymium magnet in your hands detecting the magnetic field of the Earth, I tell you that besides to be one ignorant you are a liar. Besides it depends strongly of the geometry of the magnet that you never mentioned, you can do a simple calculation of the resultant forces on such magnet. Please do it and after that I would start to believe you. I was part of my postdoctoral thesis in Stuttgart (Max Planck Institut für Festkörperforschung), where magnetism was one of strongest branches of research and I never found a physicist comparable to you: using the Sakurai badly and now without understanding even that where were two compass needles in this question of the post. My friend are telling me that the education in Germany is going down....

I know that you never want to accept more than your reasons and also you know very well the form of mocking subtly of the people, even if you are telling nonsense things (sorry, at least for me) as that you could determine quantum trajectories by carrying the second Newton law of Classical Mechanics to Quantum Mechanics. But now I see that you even are able to put the name of person in a forum as this for discussing about silly things. Thus I know it and I don't want to expend too much time with you, although I'm also aware that there are other people reading us .Let me to tell you that If you are able to calculate what I have said and put in my bath the neodymium needle compass (as you said) you shall be the winner and I shall put you in my gold block of persons to change my opinion of them. Meanwhile, if you follow to write these kind of things and you use my name for discussing with you, frankly I shall not respond you, at least till I have time enough to loss.

Dear Daniel

Nobody here says that the classical interaction between two magnets has anything to do with a quantum Hamiltonian. Every physicist is used to make analogies at different levels of understanding. I give up with the endless discussion with you. Pure nonsense.

Dear Emmanouil Markoulakis

You can see in the figure the tendency of the South Pole of the magnetic needle of a compass to point to the magnetic North Pole of the Earth. In first order approximation you can describe the interaction as a scalar product betwen the magnetic dipolar field of the Earth and the dipolar field of the needle. This is a typical dipole-dipole magnetic interaction. In this case a classical interaction. The interesting image about is that in the quantum realm, which is far a way of this classical description, you have also a dipole-dipole interaction involving the magnetic dipole moment of a particle and an external magnetic field. And in the quantum realm you may have, due to a dipole-dipole interaction, splitings of energy levels. Best regards.

Dear Cesar,

I strongly agree with you that our discussion was not sense because, among other things the exchange interaction doesn't take into account with is the most important non-linear variable.

Your beautiful picture is very clear and it is immediate that the compass needle crosses the equator following the magnetic field. I think that most of the people has coincided in a good answer. But the question was about the interaction of the poles, better magnetic dipoles, interaction and not everybody has done it.

In your picture something important is missing, if we want to understand well everything from the dipole interaction: the compass needle creates a field also dependent of the angle (much more important as the magnetization M of the compass could be) and to see what happens when you approach to the poles of the Earth. That is to say, what happens when you have the compass close to one of the Earth poles on compass needle. If you read my first post this was exactly my point in this forum and I think that somebody interpreted it in a bad form. I only tried to explain the interaction of the poles of magnets and how this could lead to a controversy due to their non linear strength, at difference of what happens with a monopole as it was also well written in the initial question.

@All who followed Daniel Baldomir's ideas concerning the unability of Earth's magnetic field to align a neodymium magnet.

Here is an intentionally artless video made by my son with his smart phone. It shows clearly that the neodymium magnet oscillates arround a direction and always stabalizes in the same direction. That this direction is close to what is known to me as the north-south direction may be credible to most, very probably not to Daniel Baldomir.

Put your 5 Tesla magnet into a wooden bowl and put the ship to water

All who followed Daniel Baldomir's ideas= Ulrich Mutze alone (at least in this thread)

I can understand that it can be bored to be retired and without a fixed task to do everyday. But it is very difficult to understand for me that someone can name a person, not once but twice in a thread as this, for telling non sense things. If I did that with somebody, the first thing is to ask him concrete things where I thought he could induce people to wrong understanding. I'm for sure the first able to make mistakes or to misundertood a question. Even this one could be the case, but what I never could think that there are people following my ideas in RG. This is a good platform that allows to exchange our opinions and obviously everybody has to defend his/her opinion using the reason and the knowledge. I must apreciate always the different comments or ideas that I have exchanged in this forum with clever people.

The post that Ulrich claimed as a bad answer given by the full professor Daniel Baldomir, was devoted not to explain the non change of the compass needle in the equator, which previously were answered by other people but just trying to complement such answer with the interaction of the magnetic dipoles. This was the question that I read and which nobody had entered in it. I suppose that this was what Emmanouil understood as there were people understanding him. This is all, and it is better to forget people who think that they have a magnet of 5 or even 1 tesla in their pockets. What a shame to be obligued to write these kind of things ! Sorry.

Dear Dr. Mutze and Professor Baldomir,

I feel sorry your debate became ugly and actually off-topic to the question of this thread here and I feel some responsible to resolve the conflict.

Sometimes with all the overwhelming information, theories, equations, quantum mechanics etc. in science today, simple questions back to the basics can prove surprisingly hard. This is an inherent characteristic to the human information process who tends to give priority and significance to higher computation tasks.

Professor Baldomir was the first and maybe the only who really understood and addressed my question, the equator was just used as reference for crossing from one pole of the Earth's core magnetic dipole to the other magnetic core pole and my question was not about why the needle of a compass aligns N-S direction at the equator on the surface of the Earth but about the magnetic dipole interaction between magnetic core and compass needle when close or passing behind a pole of the magnetic core as it would be projected on the surface of the Earth?

With this said I find it inappropriate for RG and general academics to resort to personal insults and the initial response by Dr. Mutze unjustified. We all make mistakes and no one knows it all and is all the time 100% correct. This is not possible and would be unnatural.

So now about the off topic debate between UM and DB. First I must say that there is no one who can possible have a 1 Tesla rare earth magnet in his pocket! Not even a 0.1T (1000 Gauss). A MRI is about 1.5 Tesla, how in the world somebody can have a 1 Tesla permanent magnet in his pocket!!? The confusion comes from the magnet producers referring to the Br residual magnetism (i.e. remanence) as the field strength produced by a neodymium magnet. However, magnetic moments between two magnetic dipoles interacting is influenced by magnetic flux density and energy product BXH therefore this is the correct magnetic strength characteristic when we measure a permanent magnet and that what most Hall effect gauss meters actually measure, thus, magnetic flux density of the magnet.

In the below table:

https://e-magnetsuk.com/neodymium_magnets/neodymium_grades.aspx

We see that the highest grade N52 neodymium magnet has a BXH product of just 398 Gauss (39.8mT)!! Compare that now with the 1-1.5 Tesla MRI.

https://www.first4magnets.com/tech-centre-i61/information-and-articles-i70/how-is-the-strength-of-a-magnet-measured-i81

So, today no one can have a 1Tesla magnet in his pocket. So Professor Baldomir is correct.

On the other hand now I replicated the experiment (also video recorded the experiment) with the water basin and a floating N45 Neodymium about 340 Gauss BXH 1cm cube magnet.

And yes the magnet always aligns with the magnetic North of the Earth as Dr. Mutze suggested. However I can not declare the experiment conclusive since I don't possess a 1T or 5T magnet and therefore I can not replicate the experiment with the specifications asked by Professor Baldomir.

So I call it a draw.

Lets shake hands.

Kind Regards,

Emmanouil Markloulakis

TEI of Crete

@Dr. Mutze

qoete:

"Sorry Emmanouil,

I know the pattern all too well from my times with the industry. Whenever inventors where shown that something in their phantastic proposal could not work they came up with something different, equally impossible. I'm not willing to enter such a game again."

Sorry but this is not correct. In order your statement to be true there must be an initial proposal by me before the second to follow as you stated. To which initial "phantastic"? proposal by me you are refering Sir?

I asked a question and then you told me the reason why it is not flipping is because relative physical size of compass needle being too small compared with the Earth. Then I replied that this is compensated by magnetic strength of compass needle being many times in order the strength of Earth's magnetic field and you never answered this argument. Then later on I informed some aspects of my new research in order to explain why I am doing this question in this thread and I am interested for the answer and not to propose something else in order to defend my proposition as you suggested, which was non existing in the first place I must add.

Therefore, I did not do any "fantastic proposal" as you stated Sir and It was never in my intention to do so.

If I do, I will do it when my new paper is published.

So, I don't make any fantastic proposals as you proposed, Sir.

Nevertheless, I've got some fantastic answers and replies...

@Emmanouil,

what I wrote was not intended as a statement but as an explanation why I expect nothing from further following your ideas that would be worth the time spent.

Unfortunately, I always feel deep anger if things that have simple and wellknown explanations are presented as problematic and as asking for dubious notational categories such as Baldomir's 'not really interacting magnetic poles'. This may have driven me to use a few undue polemic formulations. I regret this and will try hard to avoid relapses.

@Markoulakis: "Simple question, as the magnetic dipole field of the Earth is generated by its center molten core dynamo effect the magnetic poles field is projected towards the extreme North and South geographical locations with some declination from the central axis.

While I am on a North hemisphere location (excluding the extreme pole locations) North magnetic pole half of the compass needle is attracted towards Earth's magnetic South pole thus Geographic North."

You are really posing funny questions. This has already been answered adequately, but maybe not in a way you could understand. So I'll try it slightly differently. You are right that while you are on the northern hemisphere, the magnetic south pole of your needle feels the strongest attraction and therefore points north. On the southern hemisphere, it is the magnetic north pole that is more strongly attracted and will point south therefore. Which means that the magnetic south pole will still point north! So physics would be broken, if the needle flipped! The same tip of the needle always points north and the other tip always points south...

Dear Emmanouil,

The idea of considering the big magnetization of 1T or 5T was only for justifying in my post the introduction of the Eath's 0.5 Oe. We are speaking on the same effect that a small bird could do scattering with lorry for changing its trajectory. Repeat that in fact the needle compass is mainly following the small magnetic field created by the Earth and the interaction of poles would be only important on the Earth poles. On the other hand, what I have shown in my post is that the needle compass has one direction opposit its magnetic moment.

In any case, thank you very much for trying to solve the non existing conflict. The behaviour of each one is clearly and easily see reading your thread and I hope the personal actitudes too. Personal attack is not a privilege of who wants but of whom can sostain it.

Dear Professor K. Kassner,

Sorry but this is not what I am asking and definitely not funny.

Until now nobody gave me an adequate proof of why Earth's magnetic field does not correspond to normal magnetic dipole interaction as I have demonstrated on my videos here.

Anyway thank you for your response.

Emmanouil

Dear Kassner,

The german team is really a little b?it braggart: Sentences as this one:

This has already been answered adequately, but maybe not in a way you could understand. So I'll try it slightly differently.

Said by an ignorant of magnetism as you is really offensive. Who are you for questioning to Emmanouil? Please show me only one paper that can prove that you have worked in this issue once in your life. What you are said is for children as your the compass needle of your friend Ulrich. What a shame! Please, ask to Emmanouil to pick up persdon and try to answer him what happens in the Earth poles with the magnetism for closing a circle in the Earth, where the compass cannot obviously enter with it and need to follow closing it. I am still waiting for the calculations of Ulrich who had 1 T magnets for using as compass with his children (and perhaps with you or with someother than do not know magnetism)

FIG A. Graphical synopsis of my question (please click on the picture in order to see the whole picture!)

Because I see there is relative difficulty to grasp my question I did the above illustration for a graphical synopsis of my question, after all one picture is worth one thousand words. Right?

The above picture representing supposedly reality, is an anomaly I submit.

EM

Dear Emmanouil

Solar wind affects magnetosphere, the giant magnetic field that surrounds our planet. The shape of magnetosphere is defined by a combination of the Earth's north and south magnetic poles and by the steady stream of particles coming from the solar wind. Magnetosphere can change shape this way dramatically, in special due to the (immense) cloud of gas ejections known as coronal mass ejections. Solar wind not only confines the magnetic field of the Earth to the magnetosphere but also affects strongly the dipole magnetic field approximation, specially in the outer lines of the field as you can see in the pictures.

I don't believe dynamic solar winds are the cause for this static anomaly.

Dear Emmanouil,

This pictures are quite beautiful but quite far to explain anything of what happens with the magnetism in the Earth or in other planets.

One interesting question is that nobody knows what is the reason Earth’s magnetic poles should eventually swap places. This much is undeniable. Based on the magnetic fingerprints locked into ancient rocks (using superparamagnetism and the relaxation time of Néel), we know that over the last 20 million years, magnetic north and south have flipped roughly every 200,000 to 300,000 years ( although this rate was not constant). The last of these major reversals occurred about 780,000 years ago and this has been considered one of the five most important unsolved problems in physics by Albert Einstein over a hundred years ago. Nowadays in spite of the seriious studies we follow without knowing its oringen and therefore its strenght and its variations. This is is a big incognite that palemagnetism successfully was fixing in a quite good calendar. But what is very surprising is the Earth's magnetic poles as shifting with time

https://undark.org/article/books-alanna-mitchell-spinning-magnet/

and how they interact with cosmic particles having charge and also magnetism. Most of the planets have magnetism, a strange exception is Venus, but theres is not a relationship between their inner rotation, size or chemical composition that could justify more of the dynamic theories given for the Earth. How is possible to have almost constant magnetic field of 0.5 Oe if the Earth's magnetism is produced by a dynamical motion with the centre of the Earth?

I believe that there are two possible explanations for this compass needle anomaly on the Earth's magnetic field:

1. Poles of Earth's magnetic field are located physically and spatially outside and far from planet Earth. That would mean that Earth's magnetic field is NOT generated as generally believed by the dynamo theory in its core.

2. The Earth's magnetic field is a magnetic monopole or a single pole (we don't know where the other counter pole is)

@All who followed Daniel Baldomir's ideas concerning the unability of Earth's magnetic field to align a neodymium magnet.

I could not resist the temptation to become quantitative about my video. Appended is a computation of the Br value of the magnet as it results from the observed frequency of the oscillations and the computed moment of inertia of the simple arrangement. The result is Br ~ 0.8 T which is essentially what one would expect for a no-name neodymium magnet for which no data sheet is available. A few remarks concerning this result can be found in the file.

Hi Emmanouil

This is one of the most used expressions for the description of the dipole magnetic field of the Esrth. In the equation B stands for the magnetic flux density, φ for the latitude, m for the magnetic moment, r for the earth radius and μ for the magnetic permeability.

Dear Emmanouil,

Sorry but your two hypotheses are absolutely wrong, almost the same to believe that Neodymium 1T magnets can be used in the compass needles,

a- Magnetic poles (or electric ones) are always in the inner matter, never out.

b- A magnetic monole goes against Maxwell equations

My advice is that you clean this post from here.

Dear Daniel,

@ Professor Baldomir,

Yes you are right if the compass needle dips at North pole of Earth that would be evidence of the local magnetic field of the Earth. However, I don't have such empirical evidence, never been to the North pole, and must rely on others telling me. Therefore, if the above is not true I don't see why Earth not to be possible to be inside an extraterrestrial dipole magnetic field N-S?

My second hypothesis is my most favorable of the two. Maxwell theory I think does not need monopoles but that not necessarily means it's prohibiting magnetic monopoles to exist. Thus we have today many active research about Dirac magnetic monopoles. Therefore I believe my Earth magnetic monopole hypothesis is valid.

But of course I could be wrong. Anyway thank you Professor for your concerns. Most appreciated.

@Dr. Mutze

1 to 1.5 Tesla of MRI is referring to the magnetic flux density Energy product BXH of the MRI scanner generated field and not at the residual Br magnetism of the magnets used. You can not mix up magnets Br characteristic with the magnetic field flux density BXH they produce! As I have written in my previous post. Of course the Br value of an 1cm N52 grade Neodimium cube magnet is at about 1.3 T and sometimes even more 1.4T but this is essentially the maximum flux density the magnet can give on a surface area reduced to a point and not real magnetic flux per unit surface. It is just an virtual indication of the maximum magnetic potential of a magnet and not real life measurement.

So, for a single N52 1cm cube magnet compared to an MRI machine the BXH energy product as I have shown in my previous post is 394 Gauss thus

39.4 mT!! Otherwise, your calculations of Br are correct , also notice that Br value is independent of shape of magnet whereas B magnetic flux density is depended of shape of magnet:

https://www.supermagnete.de/eng/faq/How-do-you-calculate-the-magnetic-flux-density

@ Professor Cesar Zen Vasconcellos

Your formula given is useful for calculating the magnetic field on the surface of the Earth but can not by alone describe the dipole interaction of the two dipole magnetic fields, the Earth magnetic field with the dipole field of the compass. Anyway thank for your input

Kind Regards

Emmanouil Markoulakis

TEI of Crete

Greece

Dear Stefano,

Your question is very important and not easy to explain in one post as this, but let me try to give you one idea. There is one easy thing to understand the Earth must gene generate magnetic fields through the motion of electrically conducting fluids and also this field originates in its core. We can assume that this is a region of iron alloys extending to about 3400 km. It is divided into a solid inner core, with a radius of 1220 km, and a liquid outer core. The motion of the liquid in the outer core is driven by heat flow from the inner core, which is about 6,000 K, to the core-mantle boundary, which is about 3,800 K. Thus there is a gradient of temperature between these two regions. The heat is generated by potential energy released by heavier materials sinking toward the core as well as decay of radioactive elements in the interior. The pattern of flow is organized by the rotation of the Earth and the presence of the solid inner core. This are hypothesis of what is known as dynamo model, which is in fact the standard model in geomagnetism.

Therefore there are current loops which generate magnetic fields by Ampère's. And on the other hand, a changing magnetic field generates an electric field by Faraday's law. And the most difficult simulation is to see how the electric and magnetic fields exert a force on the charges that are flowing in currents using the Lorentz force. As you can see is necessary to mix many different effects on fluids with and very heat and presed solids.This doesn't seems to be one stable situation for so big number of years and what is more surprising, at least for me, is the constance of the magnetic field (poles) respect to the geography. And the end miracle is that these poles have exacty a reverse process, i.e. Noth transform in South and South in North as if a discrete symmetry were spontaneously broken.

I answer you with a certain care because the german team is waiting for explaining us perhaps a macroscopic tunnel efect due to the Ehrenfest's theorem which transforms Quantum Mechanics in Classic and viceverse. Or to showing us a needle compass of Neodymium.

Dear Emmanouil,

No, Maxwell equation always give

div B=0

another thing are the magnetic monopole as Dirac's, Schwinger's, t'Hooft...This are topological solutions associated to U(1) or SU(2) gauge summetries, of the non trivial homotopies solutions pi1 (S1) or pi2(S3), etc---

Respect to have poles out the matter this is not allowed. This happens also for the electric, the magnetization M or the polarization P are summatory of dipolar currents or charges which always must be defined on matter. This is a very basic knowledge of one student of electromagnetism. My advice follows to be the same because the german team, wishing to have ink of squid, they can start with these simple mistakes which even is not necessary to have a knowledge of magnetism. But this is only my humble point of view.

Sorry, let me to write you more properly the group of homotopies

ᴫ1(S1) and ᴫ3(S3)

which are both homotopically isomorphs to the integer numbers and therefore allow to explain how the electric charge is quantized in Maxwell Electrodynamics or in Yang Mills.

Dear Emmanouil

You said: Professor Cesar Zen Vasconcellos

"Your formula given is useful for calculating the magnetic field on the surface of the Earth but can not by alone describe the dipole interaction of the two dipole magnetic fields, the Earth magnetic field with the dipole field of the compass. Anyway thank for your input."

Of course. This is the formula to describe only the intensity of the magnetic field B on the surface of Earth. To describe the interaction of this field with the magnetic field of the needle N, you need to take into account in first order a term like B.N. for instance. I told you that a few days before.

Concerning Maxwell equations you can have of course a magnetic flux different of zero if you consider a surface surrounding only one pole of a magnet. What people is trying to explain to you is that you cannot separate one pole of another in order to produce a magnetic monopole. Magnetic monopoles do not exist! If you take a magnet and starts to cut it in pieces every piece has still two magnetic poles. Even if you consider the smallest constituents of matter they behave as magnetic dipoles. The intrinsic spins of protons, neutrons, quarks etc behave as magnetic dipoles.

@Emmanouil

I will comment not your discussion of topics that I did not bring up (MRI,...). Instead let me turn to your nice new visualization of your question. In this form your 'Why?' allows a simple answer. Since the Why?-needle gives the whole system a lower total magnetic energy as one had with this needle flipped. This can be shown for a magnetostatic model which simulates the Earth's core magnet by two magnetic poles of opposite polarity and the needle by two such poles as well. The appended file shows the details, that one could also get with limited effort without relying on Mathematica.

Of course, as any decent textbook shows, the reasoning in terms of poles 'acting at a distance' allows a translation into a local picture employing local interaction with fields.

By no means Professor Baldomir's view is justified that in regions of weak fields the interaction among poles does no longer 'really' work (in a sense it never 'really' worked, since it it's only a model) and the transition to a field view would be necessary. What my first harsh contribution expressed was my surprise that such an obscurantistic view was accepted by you as a valid explanation. I think that the attempt to avoid dissemination of blunder in science sometimes legitimizes also harsh words. That this deprived Professor Baldomir of all his self-control is sad. Whether it is my fault should be judged by others.

Dear Dr. Ulrich Mutze,

Thank you for you expert input. I will study the material you presented.

I appreciate your willingness and efforts to spread the knowledge.

My method of study and research is through dispute and most of the time I produce heated debates. I believe that dispute is the primary cause for new scientific discoveries and change. Science historically did in the past mistakes and fall in wrong assumptions which prevent us even today to reach our full potential and make the breakthrough to the stars. I am in a constant investigation mode to find where we made the wrong turn and continue down this wrong path today.

Also I believe name calling does not contribute to anything.

Kind Regards,

Emmanouil

Dear Professor Cesar Zen Vasconcellos,

Thank you for your valuable expert input and your significant contributions in this thread here.

Kind Regards,

Emmanouil

Dear Professor Daniel Baldomir ,

Thank you for your valuable expert input and your significant contributions and advice in this thread here.

Kind Regards,

Emmanouil

The Earth is extremely complex, nonlinear and multi-scale system, consequently any projections from a micro-scale to the scale of our observations are extremely difficult. Formally, the magnetic field of our planet can be determined after solving a set of the magnetohydrodynamic equations in the rotating frame of reference. This is a daunting task requiring a significant theoretical effort. At the current moment we use mainly the approximate models; the most popular is the so called “dipole approximation”.

Based on the empirical evidence, the compass readings are consistent with the following simple rules

Dear Janusz,

Thank you very much for your answer. I never worked in Earth magnetism although I do in magnetism.

1 Please, what do you mean by magnetic anomalies in

the compass errors could be quite significant, particularly close to the magnetic anomalies.

2. What do you mean by horizontal component component of the magnetic field?

3. Do you think that the fact that the compass reading is erratic is due to have a vertical magnetic field? That is not reasonable. Vertical field only would choose the opposite pole of the compass.

Dear Daniel,

Thank you very much for your comments and the interesting questions. My answers are as follows:

“1. Please, what do you mean by magnetic anomalies in:

the compass errors could be quite significant, particularly close to the magnetic anomalies.”

The magnetic field of our planet is a sum of the fields generated by different contributions:

Magnetic anomalies are caused mainly by the magnetized rocks in the Earth’s crust.

“2. What do you mean by horizontal component of the magnetic field?”

The horizontal component of the magnetic field is obtained after projecting the vector field on a plane tangent to the geoid.

“3. Do you think that the fact that the compass reading is erratic is due to have a vertical magnetic field?

That is not reasonable. Vertical field only would choose the opposite pole of the compass”.

The erratic behaviour of the compass is caused by the weak horizontal component of the magnetic field (between 3ooo nT and 6000 nT). The vertical component tends to “lock the needle” in the direction of the actual tilt of a compass. According to information provided by NOAA

https://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomag/faqgeom.shtml

“A magnetic compass needle tries to align itself with the magnetic field lines.

However, at (and near) the magnetic poles, the fields of force are vertically converging on the region (the inclination (I) is near 90 degrees and the horizontal intensity (H) is weak). The strength and direction tend to "tilt" the compass needle up or down into the Earth. This causes the needle to "point" in the direction where the compass is tilted regardless of the compass direction, rendering the compass useless. There are established zones around the north and south magnetic poles where compass behavior is deemed to be “erratic” and “unusable”. These zones are defined where (the horizontal intensity) is between 3000 nT - 6000 nT (erratic zone) and H is less than 3000 nT (unusable zone). Experts in the field claim that if you have a good compass and are careful, you can get decent results through the “erratic” zone.

However, when H is small (H < 2000nT), the daily variation in D can easily be greater than 10 degrees.”

Some useful information about the geomagnetic field including the maps of vertical and horizontal components are available from the British Geological Survey:

http://www.geomag.bgs.ac.uk/education/earthmag.html

Dear Professor Janusz Pudykiewicz ,

Thank you for your detailed analysis and explanations, however the main argument in this thread here besides the various dynamic localized anomalies on Earth's magnetic field, is the static anomaly as I believe in general of a compass needle not to flip 180 degrees after it has crossed and left behind the physical location of of a pole of the core projected on the Earth's surface? (see fig.A above previous post).

Where you find the peculiar situation tip of the needle to point towards same Magnetic polarity N-N of the Earth's magnetic dynamo core (fig.A).

Also notice usually only the one half of the needle is magnetized in a mm small region. The other half of the compass needle is just for balance. Also because the general 5 different magnetic zones of earth field, compass needles intended to be used in the southern hemisphere are balanced differently from them used on the North hemisphere but both have however, only their North pole tip magnetized.

Exceptions to all the above are Global magnetic needles which are magnetized at the center and can equally operate on both hemispheres.

Emmanouil Markoulakis

TEI of Crete.

Dear Dr. Markoulakis,

Thank you very much for your letter and interesting insights. After reading the posts in this thread, I see that we are definitely "approaching the answer". The missing element is a detailed analysis of equations describing the compass needle; after applying formal methods of analytical mechanics, we can provide an acceptable answer.

I hope I can present my results tomorrow.

Best regards,

Janusz

Dear Professor Janusz Pudykiewicz ,quote:

" The missing element is a detailed analysis of equations describing the compass needle; after applying formal methods of analytical mechanics, we can provide an acceptable answer.I hope I can present my results tomorrow."

I never intended to put you in so much trouble!

Hopefully, this may lead you to a publication... If this would truly to be proven as a static anomaly...

I regard this as anomaly with the assumption that Earth's magnetic field must be localized and stronger in its core as it is described by the literature and then projected to the surface and weakened.Solid inner core of Earth has a radius of 1220 Km about 1/5 of the Earth total radius.

However Earth's essentially dipole field is generated by the circulating outer molten liquid iron core and sustained by the thermodynamics of the inner core. The outer liquid iron-nickel core has its boundary located at about 1/2 the distance of the Earth's total radius.This should give you a good estimate of the projected outer core positions on the Earth surface as we move the compass needle along a meridian towards south geographic pole ...

If the net result is essentially a dipole magnet then we must assume half of the upper core ball hemisphere being the south magnetic core and the lower core hemisphere to be the North magnetic core., see fig.A .

Therefore at one point an after as we travel with the compass, the North magnetic tip pole of the needle will be aligned with N polarity magnetic core and be repelled and forced to flip direction in order opposite poles of core and needle compass to get attracted, thus south pole magnetic tip of compass will now facing towards the North magnetic core hemisphere of the Earth and needle will flip!...

But this as far as we know from empirical data does not happen!...

Why?

Hopefully, I clarified my problem.

Kind Regards,

Emmanouil