Dear @Miranda, you should cite those two relevant papers, no matter where the were published, predatory or not. Relevancy matters! We, the researchers should not care about the cited paper's Journals. That was a worry of cited author who has published in previous step. Keep on doing. Good luck!

Most of the papers I cited are from good journals.  But the study is based in my country, and it's right to cite some previous works by Malaysian authors.  Some wrote papers of good quality, and I feel safe to cite these.  But what about the papers that were published in predatory journals?  What is your experience?  Will reviewers judge our papers to be inferior if we include some minimum citations from predator journals?

Dear Miranda,

Generally, I decide to cite papers messages or data of which I consider to be valuable. Often, I do not know whether these journals are predatory or not. I am sorry, I am often ignorant regarding this aspect.

Dear Andras, thanks for this info.  I have been doing like you.  But so far, in my writings on mnemonics, I didn't cite my fellow country men or women.  Many of them have research grants, they aren't like me.  Even if I have a research grant, I wouldn't publish in paid or predator journals, and my college doesn't encourage this practice.  Thanks dear Andras.

Dear Mohamed, thanks.  You are giving me some valuable info that such paid journals are trying to push away business from the free open access.  So far, the editors and reviewers would not allow the mistakes that I have mentioned in my post #1.  None of my papers would be published with such mistakes.  The editor would just tell me to correct my errors, and they are doing right.

Dear Barbara, do you mean that those journals promised to publish your papers, but did not keep the promise?  What happened then to your papers?

I have to be careful because I intend to submit my paper to a journal with some impact factor.  Thank God, we can discuss on RG forum.  (I will be back when I can.  I'm busy now with the Orientation week; 1800 new students have arrived, and there will be a second intake.)

Dear @Miranda, you should cite those two relevant papers, no matter where the were published, predatory or not. Relevancy matters! We, the researchers should not care about the cited paper's Journals. That was a worry of cited author who has published in previous step. Keep on doing. Good luck!

@Miranda, very interesting and actual question.

The diffusion of the so-called "predatory journals" is growing worldwide. I personally avoid to publish in these journals. However, some of them are found in Pub Med and Scopus, have a good impacr factor and this demonstrates the value of their contents. So, I think that there is no problem to cite articles from these journals. Anyway, it is relevant that your concept fits with the concepts reported in the journal you cite. Sometimes, it is useful to cite a very limited number of papers from predatory jouirnals of low level because you cannot find similar concepts on conventional journals. Obviously, with great caution. 

Dear Miranda,

Dear All,

I think predatory journals demand remuneration for the publishing which means, it is impossible in my case. Thus, I can be an involuntary anti partisan of predatory publishers.

You are right, dear friends, Andras, Ljubomir, Enzo, Mohamed and all.  I won't send my paper to a paid journal, and I'm also not allowed to do that.  I think I have had enough rejections to learn to be extremely careful that I'm communicating is knowledge, and not 'trash'.  Sometimes I do wonder if some authors are so relaxed and get away with errors by paying to publish, what else can they get away with?  But I remind myself to think positively.  (Do you consider paid journals as predator journals?  Are there honest low cost journals at all?)

(It was very unusual.  Once my brother, E, told me about a journal that was supposed to be in W's hometown.  And W phoned them up twice trying to get info for me, no one picked up the phone... I wonder what they really gain.)

Dear Miranda,

I like reflecting on every thought, especially if this thought is opposite to my experience or opinion.It's pleasure to find a beauty in every thought. An original thought may only enrich the content of the article and make your ideas more imaginative and convincing.To B.Russell, "Do not fear to be eccentric in opinion, for every opinion now accepted was once eccentric  "http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/367-do-not-fear-to-be-eccentric-in-opinion-for-every    

Miranda -

My guess is that there is likely a great deal of difference of opinion as to what is a "predatory journal."  Certainly, ethical behavior should be encouraged, but even if there is wide agreement that a given journal is "predatory," authors who may have been duped should not suffer further.  I would cite any good paper. Yes, I imagine that some referees may disagree, but then, many referees will have their own agenda, it is sad to say. Hopefully you would not suffer from this as well, and since I was never in a publish or perish situation, and could publish in proceedings, etc., I did not have to worry about this, and cannot say what I would do in your situation.

Regarding predatory publishing, under some definitions, it appears to me that publishing a proceedings article in one of the sections of the American Statistical Association, would qualify.  I do not agree with that, however, and a paper I published with them from the 2013 Joint Statistical Meetings is a work from which I derive much satisfaction.  I think it is very useful. I have similar feelings about a less formal journal that I used extensively.

Surely ethical publishing can be encouraged without punishing authors. But as I noted, using an old expression: I am not "in your shoes."

Best wishes. - Jim 

To keep track of journal credibility is a inhuman task for a researcher. we can go with the search for the content and not with journals. Journals represent business and are economically driven.

Dear friends, thanks for your views.  I believe that most agree that we have a right to cite whatever relevant sources that we find, regardless of where those papers were published. (Thanks again. You will know what I am doing when I'm not active on Q and A.  Have a good week and weekend.)

Here is the list of non-predatory Open Access Journals. This may be helpful dear @Miranda.

https://mp.uu.se/en/web/info/forska/open-access/publicera-i-oa-tidskrift

Dear Jim,

Dear All,

Your arguments are fine and acceptable. However, it would be useful to agree in a working determination on predatory journals at least for this discussion. It is difficult to discuss if we cannot agree on the subject’s meaning. I think, Miranda might have thought as predatory journals for which the main objective profit is and the scientific merit is mostly secondary if any. For predatory journals the essence of science, the scientific message and the welfare as well as the progression of society do not matter and their operation is but a common profitable activity.

I agree with Andras assessment.

It is nice that Ljubomir found a list, but please note carefully that it does not claim to be an exhaustive list. 

The guideline of considering profit over science (or whatever the field/subject matter), to be considered 'predatory,' would need to be applied even-handedly. 

Thanks dear friends.  Dear @Ljubomir, thanks for the list.  It will surely be useful. @Andras is right.  I fear that if I cite papers from predator journals, my writing gets discarded.  (People may ask, how do I know that the shoddily written paper contains more errors than I can detect?)

I'm sorry I didn't respond earlier. But I have just got back from presenting 2 papers at a conference at a nearby college.  The lecturers there do get research grants, but one of them said I'm publishing more than them.  That is really due to the kindness, advice and encouragement that many of you have freely given.  I can only thank you from the bottom of my heart.  (Here is the paper that I finally managed to make time to upload on RG.  I do keep my promises, it's by God's mercy.)

Article Musical Mnemonics to Facilitate Learning of Matriculation Bi...

Good job dear @Miranda. I have downloaded it in order to learn something about musical mnemonics and their role in learning.

Dear Ljubomir, mnemonics are useful for several subjects.  So we learned the colors of rainbow, and remember it as ROY G BIV.  But music mnemonics are useful for medicine, biology, history where there are many things to remember.  Many of us learned the ABC using the song that's set to 'Twinkle, twinkle little star', a music mnemonic.   For your grandchildren, Enzo's, Andras' etc etc

I am aware of significance of mnemonics in different areas. Watch this on, it is about Math!

 Mnemonic for Math Symbols follows!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDiY6PlTUW8

Dear friends, yesterday I received this paper from Gert Helgesson, sent on RG.  Do you agree that Scientific authorship and intellectual involvement should coincide?  Have you ever been tempted to include other names of persons who supported you in various ways, who facilitated the research, but did not contribute intellectually?  Or do you acknowledge their contribution in the paper?

This is very good resource! I think this paper could contribute on other threads relating the question of autorship and acknowledgements!

Yes dear Ljubomir.  I waited many months for this paper.  I have received many such good papers from authors on RG, although they are busy people.  Nothing like being patient.  Today I received, from dear Prof N, two important papers for the paper that we are working on.  Thanks be to dear friends on RG, most of all thanks to God.

Miranda -

This problem is a little different for papers in mathematical statistics than it would be for reporting results from laboratory experiments where lab assistants may have helped, or research into anthropology where someone may have provided some references, or whatever may commonly occur in other disciplines with which I may not be familiar, as roles for different people may vary greatly.  It seems to me that strict rules may easily become unfairly applied. 

[For those of us who have not been in a 'publish or perish' situation, and where management considers it a favor to support publishing at all, and much is done 'after hours' and may even be discouraged, the situation is different from what most RGers may imagine.] 

In math there are generally fewer authors, and acknowledgements may not even be present.  I have tried to acknowledge anyone who might have had any influence, though the reverse was not always true, and I vividly remember one person who asked me to rewrite his paper, and in the process I also performed the only real statistical analysis in that paper, which was then published without my name being mentioned anywhere. 

For papers with larger numbers of authors, however, I can only imagine that it must not be nearly so easy to decide who should be listed as an author, or who should be acknowledge, or who may be said to have had no role at all.  (My preference was to acknowledge freely.) But if people cannot learn to treat each other fairly, and reasonably, I imagine that they will quickly learn to avoid working with each other at all. 

Somewhat relatedly, I just read an answer someone had on ResearchGate that I thought had merit, but I have not yet, and may not be able to bring myself to up vote him, because he was being so obnoxious to someone else.  It seems to me that although I would like to keep this on a strictly scientific level, ResearchGate (RG) is still at least somewhat about collegial  discourse, and I find obnoxious comments to be both unprofessional and morally wrong.  I think we have gone a bit afield from Miranda's original question, but I have to say that I find personal attacks on RG to be repulsive, and I am quite certain that I have let it influence me at least somewhat, when deciding whether or not to up vote an answer.  If I do, I feel like I am reinforcing bad behavior.  I assume that someone like that will think I am applauding their snide remarks, when that is not the case.  (What do others do with regard to this?)

Thanks - Jim 

Thanks very much @Jim.  Wow, an answer and a comment about RG in one post.  I have been working for a year on one paper, and it was already rejected by one journal.  So I'm trying to get it into another journal.  At the same time, one good friend on RG has told me that it's very hard for inexperienced person like me to get my paper accepted, if I write alone.  (She works with some other scientists and she does the matlab, and she has been very successful.)

Even my neighbor who is a prof in pharmacology told me the same.  She said, 'if your paper is good, and if you cite papers from the journal that are related to your topic, you may get the paper accepted by a good journal'.   (I'm just doing what is ethically right to get my paper into a good journal, and stay away from predator journals.  I take the advice from those 2 friends.)

Miranda - I think your friend's case, or something similar, is likely a common occurrence.  Double blind refereeing might help ... maybe, but there is still the matter of references, and I think once someone gets some influence, their papers may carry too much weight, even when not their best work.  

Also, people with different schools of thought may sometimes put up unfair obstacles. 

Best wishes. 

Dear @Miranda and @James, I deeply agree that influence that is obtained by references does not guarantee the quality of the paper. There are even different recommendations and strategies available for citation improvement. 

Dear Ljubomir and Jim, what you have said is true.  But I will improve my paper using the comments that come with the rejection.  And I will submit again to another journal, after asking some friends to examine my paper, so that I didn't fall into certain pitfalls.  I thank all RG friends who trust me, who provided encouragement, articles for review etc etc.

Here is a good place to ask another related question.  HAS ANYONE PERSONALLY EXPERIENCED PUBLISHING IN A DOUBTFUL JOURNAL (MAYBE POTENTIAL PREDATOR JOURNAL)?  WHAT WAS THE EXPERIENCE?  PLEASE SHARE.

Dear Mohamed and all, thanks for your comment.  But you didn't answer the question.  I'm also not keen to publish in predator journals.  But it's not easy to spot them at times.

Have a look at this journal, INTERNATIONAL JOURNAL OF ADVANCED RESEARCH. Is it a predator journal? It's listed on RG...I hope it's ok, and not a predator, but I'm not sure.  Please let me know.

http://www.journalijar.com/

On Beall's list, International Journal of Abdominal Research (IJAR), International Journal of Academic Research are predator journals.  Now we have reached a point in publication history, when journals have the same name and initials at times.

http://scholarlyoa.com/individual-journals/

Thanks Mohamed, I understand what you mean and I am thankful for encouragement to publish anywhere I can publish.  Enzo also looks at the paper more than the journal.  Let's wait and see what Ljubomir and the others have to say...

Thanks @Mohamed and @Ahmed.  I agree entirely that publishers are making money of our research efforts.  (I have very busy days with my students, and also busy preparing for a national sports carnival.) 

Dear friends, the other question that I asked is whether predator journals will improve their practice and become ethical.  I have read several articles published by my countrymen in such journals.  (Have a look at this paper that is related to our discussions.)

Article A New Challenge in the Academic World: Earning Real Money an...

Publishing has became a real business. money, money, money...

Have a look into the latest example of a Journal that provides One-Day Peer Review!

"The company is currently spamming scholarly authors and offering a one-day peer review period, followed by a two-day wait to get the paper published. So you can submit your scholarly paper on Monday and have it published by the end of the week.

One might think that scholars would avoid such an obviously fake journal, but the issues are full of papers...

The journal claims an impact factor too, declaring, “Scientific Journal Impact Factor Value for 2012 SJIF 2012 = 3.997”"

http://scholarlyoa.com/2015/08/27/open-access-journal-provides-one-day-peer-review/

Yes, dear friends, Ahmed, Ljubomir and Mohamed, what do you suggest that we on RG can do, to PROTEST AGAINST ALL SUCH MONEY MAKING SCAMS FROM RESEARCHERS WHO ARE AT THEIR MERCY.  BECAUSE WE NEED TO PUBLISH IN JOURNALS TO AVOID PERISHING...

MY FIRST SUPERVISOR DURING MASTERS TOLD ME "PUBLISH, DON'T PERISH..."

THANKS all of you.  Mohamed, you have given good advice.  And thanks for your WISDOM THAT YOU EXPRESS TO SEE ALL HUMANS LIVING IN PEACE.  ON RG, THERE IS SOME PEACE ACHIEVED AMONG US WHO HAVE BEEN WELL TRAINED TO THINK.  SO OUR PURSUIT OF RESEARCH AND LIFELONG LEARNING BRINGS INWARD PEACE AND JOY.

Recently I found several articles related to publishing.  I will tell you what I think when I can manage to find time away from my students.  Have a look, and tell me your good views.

You should cite those   valuable papers, no matter where they were published

I agree with Dr. Leradi, I also think that there is no problem to cite articles from open access journals. Relevant and useful articles for your article should be cited.