Dear all,
In Wikipedia: "Galileo's ship refers to two physics experiments, a thought experiment and an actual experiment, by Galileo Galilei, the 16th- and 17th-century physicist and astronomer. The experiments were created to argue the idea of a rotating Earth as opposed to a stationary Earth around which rotated the Sun, planets, and stars.
An argument that was used at the time was that if Earth were rotating, there would be detectable effects on the trajectories of projectiles or falling bodies."
The word relativity and the principle of relativity were invented by Poincaré to explain the null result of the Michelson-Morley experiment, in the beginning of the 20th Century. One could state that if Michelson had used the Michelson-Gale interferometer (which gives a positive result) instead of the Michelson-Morley interferometer in his first experiments, the principle of relativity would have not been invented by Poincaré, and the following words would not exist today: relativity, relativistic.
Galileo‘s ship can be well understood by using the principle of inertia, rather than a "principle of relativity". The person moving with the ship keeps the uniform horizontal velocity of the ship when he jumps, by the principle of inertia, such that it is not possible to detect a difference between a person jumping on the uniformly moving ship or a person jumping in the reference resting ground.
George Searle, 1909:
"Dear Sir I am sorry that I have so long delayed to write to thank you for sending me-at the request of Dr. Bucherer a copy of your paper on the principle of relativity.[ When the paper came to me I was rather tired with my work. Then came a holiday. But as soon as I returned from the holiday I fell ill and have been unwell up to the present time. I am now recovering and hope to be quite well in a few days. I had hoped to make a careful study of the paper be- fore writing to you, but I have not been able to do so. I have not been able so far to gain any really clear idea as to the principles involved or as to their meaning and those to whom I have spoken in England about the subject seem to have the same feeling.
Joseph Larmor:
"This relativity business is all right for you young fellows but it's not for these old brains"
Ernest Rutherford was once asked about Einstein's theory of relativity. "Oh, that stuff!" he exclaimed. "We never bother with that in our work."
Oliver Heaviside :
"I don't find Einstein's Relativity agrees with me. It is the most unnatural and difficult to understand way of representing facts that could be thought of. . . . "
My questions are the following:
- Does the principle of relativity agrees with you?
- If yes, can you make a description of this principle and distinguish it from the principle of inertia?
Thank you very much.
Best regards,
Halim
Not quite. The term relativity and the concept was first used by Liebniz in the debates between Newton and Liebniz. ewton would not use the term. His last challenge to relativity was in the ``Newton's Bucket'' experiment, for which Liebniz had not answer. Little wonder as the experiment and the implication of Mach's principle was omitted from modern day relativity.
In addition to uniting relativity and QM, the inclusion of Mach's principle should be a part of any Theory of Everything.
Dear John Hodge ,
Thank you very much.
I know Newton's bucket experiment and Mach's critics on Newton's absolute space.
But for me, these issues can be easily described by the question on the existence or the inexistence of an absolute space.
On can argue that Foucault's pendulum demonstrates the existence of an absolute space, whereas others like Mach would say that the motion that is detected by the pendulum is relative to distant stars etc.
Moreover, Mach rejected the theory of relativity.
It is cleear that the concepts involved in Newton's bucket experiment and Mach's critics on Newton's absolute space do not require “the principle of relativity” invented by Poincaré.
The term "relativity" comes from french "relativité" invented by Poincaré. I didn't find a document from Liebniz about this term.
The concept comes from the `Newton-Liebniz debates'. Foucault's pendulum argues for a rotating Earth, not absolute space. And relativity could not include Mach's principle - but Einstein tried for several years to fit into his model. And relativist continue to fail. But many still try.
Dear Halim Boutayeb ,
The free fall (gravitational phenomenon)only with the inertia principle can be well explained, rationally. Such an explanation is missing in these writings:
Article Tényekkel igazolható a gravitáció valós oka
Article Gravity a paradym shift in reasoning
Where the gravitation is explained somewhat regarding Newtonian force which is created by the electromagnetic nature of substance.
After trying to demonstrate the existence of gravitons it was needed to create a metaphysical explanation of the Universe with an a priori entity.
In this case can be got a Decart's imagination about physical space... The article mainly parts is ready only need to be linked each other and corrected Hungarian linguistically
So in a somewhat similar Decartian concept about mather (apriori entity physical space lack of around around his nucleus phase, transition phases) we can explain the free fall, without needs of force and such a way this phenomenon is concordant with Galilean inertia even if the bodys has a accelerated moving in gravitational field.
This hypothesis seems very interesting. gives a very simple explanation to physical-chemical and biological, geological phenomenon.
Regards,
Laszlo
A paper about Newton's bucket experiment and Mach's principle:
https://www.ifi.unicamp.br/~assis/Apeiron-V20-p84-96(2017).pdf
Ernst Mach book of 1883-1901:
The Science of Mechanics: a critical and historical account of its development
https://ia801407.us.archive.org/29/items/in.ernet.dli.2015.154174/2015.154174.The-Science-Of-Mechanics.pdf
This book presents all main experiments and theories in the science of mechanics known at that time.
You can see in the book that there is no any mention or any description about a "principle of relativity" which could have been developed by Galileo, Leibniz, or Newton.
George Searle, a renowned British scientist in beginning of 20th century said about the "principle of relativity": "I have not been able so far to gain any really clear idea as to the principles involved or as to their meaning and those to whom I have spoken in England about the subject seem to have the same feeling."
- Badges
- Science topic