As the endgame approaches it becomes clear that Britain's current political leaders cannot/will not sign up to any special deal for Northern Ireland as proposed by the EU negotiators (and Ireland of course).
Yet Britain's negotiators insist that there will be no 'hard border' in Ireland. The EU have called this 'magical thinking' somewhat amusingly to Irish ears.
Can you help Britain square the circle? Leave the single market as the UK of GB and NI and yet not have a customs border between the latter and the rest of Ireland.
It is quite likely that it will be impossible to resolve, not least because so much else is tied up with it and changes occurring in the island of Ireland generally. It is hard to see where a compromise can be and the Ulster's position seems to be hardening, which might intensify calls for the 'hard BREXIT'' But, of course, we also have Gibraltar and so many politicians do not appear to understand that if the UK is outside the EU we are simply a third country-there is no halfway house for somethings
The UK political system ultimately is grounded in pragmatic opportunism. There will be a solution (who knows what) because there will have to be. Whoever blinks last will get more of what they want. Even if it's a no deal.
Christopher NOCK
I must say I go more with Patricia's sombre 'impossible to resolve' view than Christopher's more optimistic view that 'there will be a solution'.
Any other creative ideas from outside of these islands either side of the Irish Sea, where the new border should be in my view?!
It all goes to confirm, sadly for some, that the decision to leave the EU was a crazy, ill thought through move and one where so many believe and still apparently believe that we can de-contextualise individual issues.The Ireland situation is, in part the product of a long , complex and fraught history. It was a manageable situation within the EU but now-I see no hope for a good outcome
it was indeed manageable on the island of ireland...but now it is a complete mess it seems from here....i'm afraid i agree with your realistic/pessimistic prognosis
recent collapse of stormont talks only goes to prove that
Guys, please don't be so down on this! Important as it is, it really is just one of Brexit's issues facing the UK government. Brexit's a series of decisions, not a mistake. It just is.
For the UK, the real issue is who would vote to leave now? If it's as few as I suspect--or it becomes that way--no one will be going anywhere at day's end.
NOCK
OK it seems pretty clear it WAS a mistake
Very few sensible voices think its a smart move to they?
And Ireland being one issue amongst many is fine from a British perspective but it's not in Ireland
Never was a thought given by either side of the referendum to the impact it would have on the island of Ireland
Now the chickens are coming to roost and the EU will simply impose regulatory alignment on NI as part of the Good Friday agreement signed by Ireland, the EU AND the UK
No way out of this for GB that I can see. Do you?
First attempt lost by damn machine!! Or me?
Thanks for this rebalancing, or perhaps I'm just an oversensitive Englishman? I do have some understanding of the importance of this to all three Irelands. Not that of a native though! In Brexit what we're dealing with is really three mainly English groups. Bonkers Tories, good old little Englanders, and pissed off "ordinary" people. It's the last group that offers a wee chance of a late U-turn.
Let's say there isn't one. I'm sure the EU could well claim a duty to defend Irish interests and rights, and that duty might well be extended north, and even to Scotland. No one is going to war over this. A pragmatic UK government could take the view it's best to leave well alone in those places and concentrate on erecting the English beloved free trade wall. Will economics ultimately win out in all the territories? Okay for the UK government if it does. Just as long as what happens politically looks like reasonable compromise. Any good?
NOCK
I would agree with most of that!!
Puzzled by the 3 Irelands though?
Main problem is the assumption of 'a pragmatic UK government'
When are we likely to see signs of that?
ROI and NI
unless you add in GB Irish then yes its 3
but when will you have a pragmatic government I do wonder?
Oh, sorry. I've done a lot of work on pragmatic opportunism in British politics. There's a chapter from 2007 on the Tories needing to regain it after Thatcher threw it away. There's later papers that are more broadly. One or two available on my contributions page. If interested, you'd have to read my later abstracts. I'm afraid my mind isn't what it was!
NOCK
I've had a look at my contributions page. Unfortunately, it looks like my best efforts on pragmatic opportunism cannot be made available free here. These efforts are "Pragmatic Opportunism: the Conservative's need to return to type" and "The joker in the pack: exogenous influences and the rise of the British solution". First one Rennes University Press. Second, Bordeaux University Press. Both cheap as chips and available at French Amazon or the presses themselves. Get the titles of the books from my contributions page. ISBNs are there somewhere.
I could send you some rough copies. But bad health makes that a little hard for me.
NOCK
Sorry, but I've been in my hospital bed now for a week and things enter and leave my brain! To my admittedly impaired mind, an Island of Ireland is the long term aim. Unification. See, an Englishman might dream as well....
And not of Brexit!!
NOCK
would agree of course
but also now its clear there is need for pragmatic opportunism as you say over there in London before we all go down the tube
Well, just now, I am in London, but I've mostly got the tubes right up me! I think May would like to be more pragmatic, but faces too many bonkers Tories at the moment. It might be that Europe will destroy the Tories once more time. There's some hope of that happening. Then it'll be up to Corbyn to be pragmatic! What chance of that?
NOCK
For me Corbyn will be sensible and Keir Starmer is very impressive and I think in 'Europe' they see him as a safe pair of hands
But then compared with Rees Moggs most people would be
I would be quietly optimistic...
From an Irish perspective the end of the toxic self serving Tory/DUP alliance would be good news as it freezes progress politically here
Wel, indeed, that does look a shameful business. It may well be the Corbyn team outplays May's in the end. I also think there's good player on it. Watch this space!
NOCK
Was that a Corbyn I just saw taking the opportunity to be pragmatic on trade, and a soft Irish boarder for the good of the Island???
NOCK
I have just opened a new question page: Does "Brexit" still mean "Brexit"? I hope people will have a view on this given Corbyn's recent speech. Will it be May's Brexit Classic or Corbyn's Brexit Lite?
The EU has published its plan to effectively keep Northern Ireland in the single market and customs union after Brexit, in a 120-page draft withdrawal agreement that will throw the negotiations into crisis.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/28/eu-publishes-plan-to-keep-northern-ireland-in-customs-union
Why listen though to the bureaucrats of Brussels when we can heed the advice of the wise UK Foreign Secretary 'The Boris'? Related to Borat is he?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/28/boris-johnson-irish-border-issue-being-used-to-frustrate-brexit
Interesting! May suggesting no trade deal but soft Irish border. Will she ditch the DUP when push comes to shove? Especially if she picks up broader support in the Commons as a result of her "new" position?
NOCK
She can’t ditch the DUP on current arithmetic but sooner or later the dog will not allow itself to be wagged by its tail I would think?
Well I suppose it'll depend on what Labourites decide. If there's enough who favour May's position over Corbyn's on this--and some other issues--it just might be game on?
NOCK
Did I hear correctly? The contents of May's speech described on the news here as "pragmatic"!
NOCK
The English language is infinitely malleable it seems.
One hears what one wants to hear
the ‘europeans’ can read the Telegraph and know that the Maybot is prisoner of the loony right
My own tendency is only to hear what others say! Perhaps it's the latter that's malleable??
As for the Telegraph, God help us everyone if that's our source of truth!
If we know they're loonies why doesn't everyone?
NOCK
Well The Telegraph does give voice and resonance to a certain Tory shires constituency. Barnier et al seem to grasp that very well.
Ok Rees Mogg not a loony, that is too facile. But its a politics that has resonance even if it is scary to many people.
In a distorted way it is giving voice perhaps to the Leave voters who are not happy with the status quo (who can blame them?) and are casting around for an alternative
That it is a cul de sac is grasped equally by the TUC and the CBI.
But it will continue to live until the EU gets fed up and says OK off you go and good luck!
Should you be working this hard on the weekend? I'm allowed because I'm in bed. If I wasn't doing this, I'd be bugging the wife. And that would be very unfair since she's been coughing like a seal! I started the morning with a poem for my niece and nephews about grandad who once "killed a shrew with his shoe...." You get the picture.
We seem to have a lot of themes running here. Is the main issue still Brexit failing at the Irish border? Probably not since both main parties seem to want a soft one. Of course, there's still the question of how either of them might actually achieve this.
Would EU support for May (or, indeed, Corbyn) help or hinder their causes?
NOCK
We are all snowed in here in rural Ireland, nothing better to do!
OK I think Irish border is what Brexit will sink over. Yes there are many other contradictions coming out in May's speech and she now 'recognises' many things
But there is NO way a state (UK) can pull out of a customs union (EU) and not have a border (hard, soft makes no odds) with a state remaining in said union.
In the past the Irish were accused of magical thinking. Now it's the supposedly rational Anglo Saxons who believe in pixies it seems?
Well, of course it was our Norman conquerers who created the pale. It's they that had the true knowledge. Are you inside or beyond it where you're snowed in???
I suppose in that case the question becomes one of whether a soft border can mimic no border? Can't an element of "convenient fiction" enter at this point? It's absolutely true that they amount to same thing in practice. Now if enough people believed that....
NOCK
I'm definetely outside the pale
In diplomacy yes a convenient fiction can work, so enough agree to agree that black might be gray, yes...
But the internal reports from Irish customs say no such fiction will work on borders....it really is clutching at straws.....they are doomed to go out without NI or stay in some customs union
Why would the EU facilitate any special deal? We want Norway rights but with Canada obligation (ie minimal). No can do I'm afraid...
Well, I know there's 27 yeses needed, supposedly. But the big boys will likely end with more say. France, Germany, and Poland?
NOCK
An astute comment on the above issues
https://www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and-comment/2018/0303/944638-tony-connelly-brexit/
Interesting your last answer seems to make the border problem an Irish customs problem! Can't you sprinkle a little Pixie dust on them for all our sakes?
NOCK
Not our problem. Not our Brexit. Irexit not on the cards.
Hoist by their own petard comes to mind
Well, "they" were a very small batch of Tories way back when it all began. I predicted the party's slip back into internal Eurowars in my 2007 "pragmatism" chapter. But, of course, I didn't forsee this mess!
I think I must reflect on all this again after tomorrow's news magazines. Right now I do think there's a solution to be had. Soft borders are possible without customs union--Canada/US, most of the time.
If everyone holds their noses, and the EU authorities and the UK can agree, what's left for the Republic to do? Apart from moaning about how badly they've be treated, yet again.
NOCK
Is it the "Brexit" or the peace process that's the core issue here? Would you accept the former in a form that protects the latter?
I'm convinced that should be possible. Altho' it would take a better brain than mine to work out the details! I never was a details man!
NOCK
Put simply Brexit is a decision for the British people
peace in Ireland and a border in name only is a matter for the people of Ireland
DUP is but one party and they did not win the argument on Brexit here lest we forget
apart from that all is possible of course
Its very Informative and healthy discussion,
Following with keen interest.
Thank you Rai, that's very kind. No doubt some similar discussion goes on in the sub-continent from time to time?
This site has been great for me. Being largely confined to bed, it gives me a chance of some decent discussion. And, in someways, make some colleagues. I'm beginning to think of it as my university department! That's something I've missed now for seven years. It's helping me regain my intellect.
Best wishes
Christopher NOCK
Another approach, completely different, would be to create in NI an enclave, in all but name, with special privileges and status (perhaps like the Kaliningrad region?) that is both in and out of the EU. Out as part of UK, but in geographically (and economically) as part of the island of Ireland. That would involve freedom of movement for residents of NI, special trade etc status (as if in the EU) but jurisdictionally not directly covered by the ECJ. Therefore, there could technically be little need for a physical border (but cameras, etc.). Politically, such solution could have the advantage of allowing people of NI to self-identify to where they belong to (UK or Ireland/EU), without disadvantaging the other side. In essence, a continuation of the Good Friday Agreement.
Do I make sense?...
Ronaldo,
Yea, I can agree with all that. But if all is as you say--and I think it pretty well is--the problem now becomes the DUP. Or, more accurately, the Conservatives current relationship with it. Now, that's firmly in the hands of the Conservatives. They would certainly ditch the DUP if the numbers changed in their favour. Are there any reasons to think that change could happen without an election?
Some, I think. As the debate continues there maybe some shifting of sides. And the Lib-Dems (are there any?) SNP MPs, one Green, Labour rebels could start adding up. It's a very small number from the DUP holding this nonsense together.
NOCK
George
Trust a Cretian to offer "mindless optimism"!!! It's always so sunny there and olives are free!
But seriously, it sounds interesting to my ear. But, I shouldn't comment before the Irish contingent on such a radical suggestion. So it's over to Ronaldo.
Thanks
NOCK
Thanks all
George yes continuation of Good Friday would work.
I asked
Can you help Britain square the circle? Leave the single market as the UK of GB and NI and yet not have a customs border between the latter and the rest of Ireland.
So all your responses very helpful. Chris your creative ambiguity seems to chime with George's special status proposal?
In reality NI has special status and is effectively betwixt and between two stated and citizens can choose what passport they hold.
Things have moved on since Margaret Thatcher said South Armagh was 'as British as Finchley'. No one believes that any more.
Problem is the broader Brexit scenario that leaves the DUP wondering if they will be cut off from 'the mainland' and forced to compromise with nationalists.
Well yes. I always favour special status, as long as it applies to all equally. Maybe that's to be the convenient fiction here?
NOCK
Just watched May on Andrew Marr. Worryingly, she sounded reasonable and on the ball.
Now it's turn of Duncan-Smith, her old boss and Mandelson! Let's see.
NOCK
Now watching Peston on Sunday. A labour MP suggesting there's little to choose between May and Corbyn? Nichola Sturgeon criticising the UK government for its position on the Irish border. A suggestion that May wants a "technological approach" to the border. No guards, no physical impediments.
Interesting stuff. Are the current (and future) border arrangements of most concern to those living close, and those that cross for work?
NOCK
The border is a practical issue for hundreds of thousands who cross every day to shop and to trade, eg farmers.
It is also a broader political issue as the peace process promised the end of a hard border, de facto its not a border
No amount of technology can change that really
I think I now have a take on all this that will at least put my mind to rest for a little while.
1. Bugger Brexit. This is really an English obsession. Without a serious political quake, it will go ahead in some form. What form exactly remains to be seen. The Scots and the Welsh will have to work with the UK government to get the best deal for them, in the context of what's agreed by EU and UK.
2. The border question is mainly: what happens post-Brexit? The Republic wants no border, but seems to think this may be a problem. Why? We don't know what the deal will be (assuming there is one), any EU/UK deal may be the wrong one for Ireland, and the DUP (and other committed Unionists) are likely to try and scupper any soft border deal.
3. May does seem to be willing to get as close as possible to no border, as does Corbyn. As we get closer to any deal, perhaps cross-party consensus may come begin to kick in. The Conservatives may then be in a position to ditch the DUP, making a reasonable facsimile of no border more possible.
4. The border issue is primarily a matter for the Island. But, unfortunately, the UK's constitutional role in the North means it cannot just wash it's hands and move on. This role is important because it keeps the UK government involved in the matter. This might help rein in some more stringent Unionists. And government explanation of its border position may help reduce some Unionist fears.
Well, that's how I see it at this moment!
NOCK
Agree with most of that
strangely though DUP and especially it’s rural base want free trade with the republic
their problem arises if this means any restriction of east west trade
And there I was thinking you were taking a nap!
Yea, we're quite close I think. But you see all these little complications only local knowledge can really grasp! Doesn't free trade with the Republic imply free trade with the EU? If yes, isn't that problem solved by a wonderful (Northern) Irish side-step?
I'm beginning to think the answer mostly lies in the Good Friday Accord. The UK, the EU, and the Republic are all parties to that. No one really wants to upset that cart too much. If everyone could shift a little, a compromise can be found if it's needed in the end.
This game isn't win or lose. Think of it as a continuum. "No border" one end "closed border" the other. Thankfully, we much closer the first of those.
If you accept a little compromise may be needed to help others get the agreement of their constituents, let them get on with it, and we just may end up with something everyone can live with, except the "unreasonable". They can then be.sidelined as a barrier to peace and prosperity which are the proper concerns of all liberal-democratic political institutions, national, regional, and supra-national.
NOCK
Good Friday is where it is at, as its a local accord but also an international treaty. That is why EU is 'interfering' in the issue, they are guarantors of the process.
Boris says they are using it to make UK back down on Brexit. I sort of doubt it but even if it was GF is there and there is no way of going back on it. It gives the Republic and say in the affairs of NI end of.
Kate Hoey et al play a dangerous game when they attack GF cos it stands in the way of Brexit....
You see, I should have named the no border end of the continuum the "Munck" end! It's an equally dangerous game to insist that the way you understand things is the absolute truth and mustn't be denied! Yea, you do need a dose of stubbornness to pursue the fight, but you'll lose that fight if you're unable to compromise when that's required. The skill of knowing when that is, is everything here.
NOCK
Oh I would compromise ok but on what?
peace is not something people who have lived through war are prone to compromise on
Well, the short answer on that is anything you disagree on which doesn't allow victory for either side.
The origins of liberal-democratic arrangements is the search for peace in the face of civil wars. You already believe a load of liberal convenient fictions. We are not equal. We are not equally reasonable. We are not governed by our own consent, and neither should we be! Good God, no!
Liberty leaves us much space to do what we will on the basis of our own reason, but when we conflict we need an "artificial right reason" imposed from above by a liberal authority that really understands it's proper role. So few do these days!
See my "On the dissent theory of political obligation" in POLITY (Winter 1995). It might just change your life! Or, at least, your way of thinking.
NOCK
I think its always important to listen to people on the ground. See
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/05/irish-border-brexiters-good-friday-agreement
I couldn't agree more! But having listened, an authority must make the final decision. At this point, it doesn't really matter what you or I think. The decision reached, whatever it is, should be defended as "reasonable" (not right or correct) and those who oppose it might be branded "unreasonable". Not necessarily, however.
If your opposition is peaceful, or relatively so, it can still be deemed reasonable. It's violent opposition by the few that should be crushed. Today's decision can be changed later if opponents turn out to be right, or if circumstances change.
Welcome to the modern world that emerged from the womb of the English civil wars, and evolved into liberal-democracy! Love it, or hate it....
Nock
There is no violence on the cards, why mention that?
What ultimate authority should adjudicate?
Since Woodrow Wilson national right to self determination is recognised
This is just an English own goal with the rest of us left to pick up the pieces
You don't need a degree in philosophy to figure that out
Well, it just might help to have a philosopher help pick up the pieces. They're not all completely useless. Some can add a dose of understanding!
As for violence, it's at the heart of the origins of liberal-democracy. I make no judgement on it's role or no role in this particular case.
As for which authority, I'd expect it to be formed by some association of the Republic, the UK, and the EU. It may be that direct rule will play an important role in this with regard to the North.
Anyway, whose "national right"? And doesn't that rule the EU out?
NOCK
Today 18th March papers say
Charles Grant, director of the Centre for European Reform, said it was likely the UK would get an accord on the terms of the transition at this week’s EU summit. “Only one thing could prevent a deal: if the British cannot convince Dublin they are making progress towards achieving a barrier-free Irish border, the Irish could veto a transition,” he said. “But that seems unlikely.”
Watch the news next week but I would bet that that this is far from unlikely. Ireland and the EU are getting tired of Britain's ongoing pretence they can square the circle of pulling out of the single market and not have a border with the EU in Ireland. It's gone beyond wishful thinking!
And the rest-Dover, Felixstowe, Gibraltar-how many more digital fantasies do we need? When we the Government get it.? There is a symetry around EU rules. To get the benefits you comply with the rules. It is the Single Market that we need and benefit from and this non-sense of the borders just misses the point.
Boy! I didn't think we'd slip so far back so quickly! The snow and ice must be really bad out there! I think I'll stay in bed one more day!
There will be a solution, because there'll have to be! And to work it'll have to be a solution the Irish government can endorse. What that solution will be, I don't know. But it will have to be pragmatic! It will need tripartite agreement....
NOCK
Nice article in your favour in today's "i". By Jonathan Powell, a former government negotiator in the north.
NOCK
And now its official
No Irish border deal, no trade deal
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/23/eu-approval-of-brexit-blueprint-comes-with-irish-border-warning
Well, indeed, but we knew that already! But does that mean NO border? Or some reasonable facsimile thereof? Or some new type of arrangement that the Irish government can endorse?
NOCK
Now you've woken me up, I see it's all been hitting the fan! Shadow Cabinet ministers calling for Ref.2! May being hounded by her Brexiteers. There's a hell of a long way to go on this yet! And I ain't going anywhere for a long while. Maybe never....
NOCK
Cambridge Analytica scandal hits Ireland but still no solution to the conundrum we are talking about here
Theresa May's hapless government has trapped itself between two competing imperatives. On the one hand it has agreed with the European Union (and implicitly with the Irish Government) that, in the absence of other, increasingly improbable solutions, Northern Ireland will in effect stay in the customs union to avoid a hard land border. On the other it has agreed with the DUP that Northern Ireland will remain fully aligned with the rest of the UK, to avoid the unionist nightmare of an effective border in the Irish Sea. As we saw from the transition deal agreed between Britain and the EU this week, this conundrum remains unresolved.
https://search-proquest-com.dcu.idm.oclc.org/europeannews/docview/2017295245/fulltext/FF7FCFBADCD54842PQ/1?accountid=15753
Oh yee of little faith! You can't always believe what you read on the internet!
NOCK
I think this more or less sums up where Britain stands on this question:
"Brexit official tasked with solving Irish border issue quits"
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/26/simon-case-brexit-irish-border-prince-william-private-secretary
I think we can now close this discussion. Thanks to all who contributed or read this thread
Goodbye all! Please keep the faith! Brexit will happen. An open Irish border will remain. Just don't ask me how!
Good Luck!
NOCK
Don't you think that the certainty with which you predict that BREXIT will happen and the border will remain open is totally misplaced. Like much of the debate-it is 'pie in the sky'/delusion/and refusing to see that BREXITEERS were just plain wrong. How is it going to stay open?
well the eminent civil servant tasked to square the circle has, seemingly, given up this quest
It can only work if we are in the Single Market-and the only way that makes sense is for us to stay in the EU.
Good lord, I thought we were done?
When the result of the UK's referendum was first known, my Canadian wife wept. I assured her that we would not be leaving the EU, but if we did we'd end up with pretty much what we already had just costing us more. Call me cynical, but I still think this will turn out to be very close to the truth. Too many complaints against my views here have relied on abject refusals to see politics for the pragmatic game that it is. Forget about hard and soft borders. These are irrelevant labels now. Think of the Irish government being able to sign up to an arrangement, which the UK can accept when holding its nose. That's as good as it'll get unless ref. 2 becomes a reality. Which it just might!
NOCK
Patricia, you do pick your moments! Just to clarify. I have no stake in Brexit or non-Brexit. In an awful lot of awful ways, it has no real relevance to what might be left of my life. My interest is in the actual workings of liberal-democratic regimes and their supra-national institutions. Although appearances can suggest otherwise, these are not really bound by unalterable commitments, or eternal values, or anything else that may restrict their current options. This is true for the UK, Ireland, and the EU. Yes, because they are liberal-democratic most extreme options are off the table, but that leaves plenty on there!
So it could be Brexit, or it could not. It might remain a soft border, it might not. There might be a REF2, there might not. And so on.... I have no real clue on any of it. But what I do know is, if it's Brexit, there will have to be some type of agreement or none at all. If there is one, there will have to be tripartite agreement on the Irish border. The only real matter in that will be Irish acceptance of that agreement.
I foresee some lame version of Brexit being agreed with the correct nod to the border issue. Being lame, there will remain a strong possibility of REF2 all the way through the transition period. Whether that happens or not, we will find out if the English are quite bonkers and deserve what they get. Or if they just drink too much and can come to their senses when they really need to. I, for one, cannot wait to find out!
NOCK
But maybe, just maybe, I "cannot wait to find out" has something to do with my dickie-ticker?
NOCK
I'm told that what I foresee is a "Hotel California Brexit". We'll check out but never leave!
Go on, smile!
NOCK
I can see that- at least as a concept but as a lawyer I need more detail and hate fudges.
Ah well, lawyers generally should hate fudges, which is why I would never have made a good one! Although some of the most expensive criminal briefs do seem to love a good fudge now and then....
Start by dropping the "fudge" label. Instead, think "complicated agreement." So many requirements, so many participants, so little time....
Now make it less complicated. Just think "agreement." Only one requirement: settle border issue. Only thee real participants: EU, UK, Republic of Ireland. As much time as is needed: one year plus endless transition time, if necessary....
Easier?
NOCK
On the tail of my "Hotel California Brexit," my wife tells me that what she always wanted was a "Roach Motel Brexit." They check-in, but they don't check out!
NOCK
Nice idea. If we carry on with the motel idea, we are not short of Psycho s on the BREXIT side. But seriously, I see no movement/ideas/compromises/ etc etc on the Northern Irish border.Are they enjoying leaving us all guessing?
Pshycos abound for sure
but main thing is they have no solution cos there is no solution outside of customs union or regulatory alignment or whatever we wish to call it
why is this so hard to comprehend?
Well, she didn't see that! I think they're not keeping us waiting, but they will be waiting for the right time, depending on what can/cannot be agreed.
t's not hard to understand. What's hard is understanding how it will be done. It'll have to be done in a form acceptable to the government of the Republic. NOTE, that doesn't mean you personally!
It won't be needed if there's no Brexit, and that remains a possibility. It won't be needed if there's a Eu-Uk trade agreement that requires no change on the border. If neither of these are the case, it will take some clever minds, but it won't be impossible.
Hope Good Friday goes well!
NOCK
And oh, she reminds me that her motels were intended for cockroaches! It's a real slogan from North America.
NOCK
In case you were wondering if a solution was imminent read
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/apr/05/little-progress-from-magical-thinking-in-brexit-talks-on-irish-border
Immanence is not really my bag, to be honest. Probably shouldn't be yours either! There's so far go, and so much time to fill. Next year maybe?
NOCK
It’s imminent
end of pretending
finito
it’s either Brexit or hard border in Ireland
But you knew what I meant. That's what's important!
Fancy being so critical of a poor little cripple, who failed his O level English first time, and only managed the lowest pass grade the second time! You should be praising the miracle that is my presence on this website!
I'm beginning to suspect that the current strategy is to come up with a Brexit deal so bad that the Brexiteers demand REF2. Now that's a notion no good speller could come up with.
NOCK
its not you we are critical of
just lack of logic in Britain's brexit mirage
Well, I do like my last suggestion! Still, I suppose the real issue is: does anyone else?
NOCK
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