It is true that Ayurveda is a time tested and well-recognised system of therapy where natural herbs and medicinal plants are used resulting in wonderful success and often claimed to have little or no side effects. However, like any other medical system, these therapies too have contraindications and the potential for adverse effects or side effects. And these side effects turns to a concern only when therapies are used incorrectly, are abused/administered improperly, or are prescribed by unqualified practitioners.

The International Society for Ayurveda and Health (ISAH) of USA recommends Ayurvedic therapeutic herbal use only when prescribed and properly supervised by a trained practitioner.

Research on medicine and usage of research-derived drugs to global population are two intertwined dynamic realities applicable to all systems of medicine.....be it ayurvedic, unani, modern allopathic, or any other system. Consistent scrutiny and validation are, therefore, necessary and some of the most vibrant tools to keep this momentum of dynamicity going.

Yes. Because sometimes the detailed of exact composition is not explain. So it need elaborate analysis on respect of its compound compositions.

No, there is no need to test ayurvedic medicines scientifically as Ayurveda is a 5,000 year old science.

Ayurvedic medicines tested by time so no better validation than showed by time.

yes needed because now days these medicine use globally

Ayurveda is a system of medicine with historical roots in the Indian subcontinent. Globalized and modernized practices derived from Ayurveda traditions are a type of alternative medicine. So it became so old science and not need modern scientific scrutiny and validation.

Definitely YES.

A true remain always true, if it is actually a true.

Some wrong concepts are included in Ayurvedic formulations (as use of heavy metals in some formulations). Such toxic effects were not known thousands of years ago.

Every scientific idea need to pass scrutiny continuously for their benefit.

Ayurveda is a Science, so it needs continuous research and validation.

Thanks.

Dear YOGESH CHANDRA TRIPATHI

Interesting question - and I would answer yes. No system has the solution for all ailments so also through knowing the boundaries regarding what ailments can be treated - as well as the with what ingredients and what protocol should be followed. I would like these aspect to also be brought into Western medicine.

The protocol to be followed is maybe the most important and the most overlooked and this must include the "sympathetic" attitude of the health professional who has time to listen. Maybe as Ayurveda has more time built into its treatments (ie massage)it might be revealed that it is not be the time itself that turns out to be the deciding factor- I have had Ayurvedic treatments by qualified practitioners who have been too impersonal for my liking. Professionalism often is not what patients are looking for - but a warm heart. And this applies to all health field practitioners!

Warm regards Tina

Important discussion

Ayurveda can be proven by modern means too. It is necessary to examine the effectiveness and the mechanism of action of your methods in order to better understand the man as a bio-social being and the process of healing.

But it should not be forgotten that western test methods are not capable of revealing any correlation.

Ayurvedic Medicines efficacy is time tested as these drugs are used from centuries. However, scientific studies are needed for wider acceptance especially for global acceptance. Further, studies are needed for identification of potential plants species in present time and ensuring quality of drugs

If we want to establish evidence or proof for any Ayurvedic medicine by using human volunteers or patients, it needs moderns scientific scrutiny and validation.

The effect of natural methods will deprive modern drugs. The drug basically affects one biological process. Natural methods, including Ayurveda, primarily affect the relationship between internal processes and heal the body's balance. Of course, we can also show a direct biological effect, but it may not be a significant effect. Modern testing methods can measure the effect of one variable, so they show a weaker result in natural methods.

Let it be any variety whether Ayurveda or Allopathy it depends on the belief of that person. Some like Ayurvedic some prefer Allopathy. Rather than medicine belief work faster than validation.

Dear Dr. Ramadevi,

Do you mean "only belief' can cure disease?

I think, believes may have some effect as these can increase mental resistance to disease expression, but it can not cure all diseases.

What is the proof behind your comment?

Shibabrata, what I mean to say BELIEF is a major component. I am remembering one story. Once a couple went to a movie all of a sudden wife gets headache luckily family doctor also came to that movie sat side by them, they felt relief and mentioned about the situation. He gave one tablet and ask to chew not to swallow. Interestingly, headache cured by the interval the couple check the tablet, that is a coat button they get angry and asked is it a way you treat? Then the doctor says I came to the movie like you, not with medical kit. As it is dark I gave a button and said not to swallow, as you have the belief that if doctor gives some medicine so that automatically reduced. Not only this Shibabrata for everything belief/confidence and +ve thinking works fine.

Dear Dr. Ramadevi,

It is called as "placebo effect" in medicine.

Yes, it works to some extent, but not upto the extent to cure any infectious disease or other serious diseases, so far I know.

I don't think the efficacy of Ayurvedic medicines need any scientific validation. Some of the colleagues above have stated prolifically that it has been around for thousands of years. It works holistically and one needs to have a disciplined life style that encompasses proper nutrition and healthful practices. What Ayurvedic medicines lack is a lack of publicity. It is not well known among lots of people.

Dear Dr. Srini Vasan,

Ayurveda was the most modern treatment system of its time in the past. But no effective research was performed on it for thousands of years.

identification of actual plant felt very difficult from their ancient names written in the ancient Ayurveda text in many cases.

Some Ayurvedic preparation, particularly those contain heavy metals, are not considered as safe in the light of modern science.

Personally I think that everything should be validated in the light of modern science before declare it as safe and effective.

Many modern medicines are identified as toxic and harmful to health even after their use for some decades (many pain killers, as example).

Moreover, it is required for further global spread of Ayurveda.

Thanks.

Happy to see such question asked from non-ayurveda fraternity...

It shows about the increased popularity and interest of ayurveda among communities. But , being the oldest medicinal branch in India, people here still ask question about its efficacy .

Ayurveda , itself is a science, so it does not need any validation but only for globalization of this science , many researches are going on based upon the modern parameters....

Ayurvedic medicine is proven. But not for all cases....

Ayurveda is based on observations and it is scientific practice to cure. Its further validation will enhance its significance in most of the incidents. However, as Shibabrata Pattanayak has observed, it needs further studies. A remarkable difference between modern medical science and ayurveda - may be that - modern medical system try to eliminate diseases from the body; where ayurveda try to enhance capacity to combat diseases by rejuvenating the body.

In an age when rejuvenation of our health and health of the planet is necessary, further studies that tends us to simpler life - is needful to the society.

Yes for Globalization use we need scientific data

Yes .. I had to prove it in my case while working on Shankhpushpi. Shankhpushpi is a proven Ayurvedic medicine which is well known to improve intellect and memory. There are products available in the market based on the traditional claims. But since there were no scientific evidences to prove it, I worked on the scientific aspects of this plant using animal models of learning and memory enhancement. At the end, I finally succeeded in proving the anxiolytic, antidepressant and memory enhancement activity of all the four varieties of Shankhpushpi. The publications arising out of my work are easily accessible on research gate.

So it's the need of the hour to fact check any finding scientifically which will help to strengthen the claims put forward by traditional healers practicing Ayurveda.

Everything that can be improved by human skill and knowledge, should be, including Ayurvedic medicines.

I like Ayurvedic medical care ... has a different version for medical care for family’s and society , to learn from and my in opinion for one healthcare

I completely agreed by @alok nahata

I think there is no need of modern parameter for juding ayurvedic medicine.there is already lot of ayurvedic parameters.they should be consider as bench mark of ayu medicines.

its not mendatory due to its proven efficacy and safety since time immemorial. But to generate scientific evidance, it could be done but consultation of expert in concerned field is required to prevent misinterpretation.

Yes, every recommendations in this kinds should be out come of clinical trials

Yes. I think clinical trial is required

Ayurved is time tested science. True disciple of this science will never doubt its principles. The answer to above question is obvious 'Yes'. But this relates to the non Ayurvedic fraternity only. Because they don't understand the basic principles of Ayurved. Modern scientific scrutiny is required to understand their mode of action on modern parameters which are understood by modern scientists. Validation is not research. Its just fact checking.

No. Ayurveda medicine don't require scrutiny and validation. Melaniums ago also their actions were as same as they are today.

Scrutiny and validation are just like a modern parametric measurements. One can't see the same in shades what he/she can see by nacked eye.

By keeping modern parametric tests in mind ayurveda can't b assessed. To understand ayurveda n drugs, technology can b used but correlation with modern medical science...is quite different.

Scrutiny n validation can only b helpful to Those who wants to make their business or want to do herbal allopathy.

YOGESH CHANDRA TRIPATHI please specify which type of scrutiny and validation prior making any conclusion on discussion. Whether it is regarding drug pharmacology? Pharmacognosy? or Drug interactions and Pharmaceutical properties?

Foram P Joshi - Scrutiny and validation in terms of authenticity and quality of ingredients, therapeutic efficacy, side effects, safety and toxicity of herbal formulations.

Though most of my works are on the use of parts of medicinal plants in healthcare, but I do not belong to the field of Ayurveda.

I face the same type of questions in different seminars like the one asked by Dr. Tripathi - that why I am pointing the issues like toxicity study or validation of actual efficacy of plant derived medicines.

As per a section of researchers came from the field of Ayurveda - no such study is required as Ayurveda is already a proven science.

This demand carry no basis to me.

1. If it is already proved as non toxic and efficient enough, then where is the problem of re - checking by modern laboratory tools?

2. Depending on the factors like soil and water, phytochemical concentration varies. Arsenic may come from water to plant leaves. The same is true for heavy metals. Plants grow near highways contain lead.

Many such study reports are available.

I think such study should be a MUST for all plant derived medicines.

Thanks.

Of course herbal formulations used in Ayurveda and other TSMs are time tested and their efficacy are beyond doubt. However, I think assessing such formulation on the touch-stone of modern scientific tool and techniques is desirable for their global acceptance and ascertain their safety and efficacy due to the following reasons:-

• In Ancient times, collection of plant material from natural habitat and preparation of drug out of them were done by folk medicinemen or Vaidyas. There was, therefore, a least chance of using unauthentic raw material in preparation of medicine. However, now a days the collection and distribution of medicinal plants are mainly done by unskilled labours, crude drug dealers and inexperienced and profiteering community of the traders.
• Increased demands and lack of sufficient quantities of genuine herbal material has resulted in use of substitutes, adulterants as well as fake plants.
• A number of commercially important plants are being produced through commercial cultivation using agrochemicals and plants are growing in polluted environment that may result in accumulation of toxic chemicals/heavy metals etc.

I think, On the part of fundamental principle of Ayurveda, It is a full proof science there is no need to re-examin it even we have to understand more deeply the concept of "Sanskar", "Bhavana", VATA-PITTA-KAPHA" and many more. These are the concept which require quantum mechanics like philosophy (rather than classical mechanics) in pharmacology.

On the part of its application in context of modern era- It need to do much work on standardisation of ingredients that is used in this therapy. Need evaluation of efficacy of its formulations in its present forms.

I think, this topic is debatable.

No doubt, Ayurveda is been the great science of the ancient time! In the modern science, it has been the source/platform for most of the drug discoveries.

These days, large scale manufacturing is required to fulfill the current needs of Ayurvedic medicine.

In this case fallowing are some of the parameters effecting the quality of Ayurvedic/Herbal medicines:

*The climate in which herbal material grown and procured

*The limited entities which have in-house plant material farming

*Generally plant material collected from various location and its quality may differ

*Effective dose of treatment may vary as per the varying quality of plant material used in the preparation

*Lack of an authenticity/trust on same Ayurvedic medicine manufactured by different entities.

*Conflict in the amount of ingredients in batch to batch products

*Parameters for expiry of medicine

*Side effects of medicine other than beneficial effects

Likewise, there are number of aspects which needs to be clarified with respect to specificity and efficacy of Ayurvedic medicine which are available in the markets.

Any medical science is not a complete and perfect science. Each has its own advantages and drawbacks. I had exposure to Ayurveda after my pre - university exams. From what little I know, it is one of the earliest medicinal science which compiled a holistic approach to an individual approach rather than patient centered approach. From dietetics to surgery, it is a huge compilation of an advanced medical science at its time. However, many scriptures were lost along the due course of history due to various reasons. A true medical wonder underwent stagnation when the modern science started to blossom. Even though it appears that so called Physicians or vaidyas did not own a certificate to practice, knowledge was handed down to future generations after considering different merits or gunas. Furthermore, it suffered from apathy by its own followers until the plant products started getting patented abroad. As of today, plenty of research is being carried out in various parts of India with Benaras Hindu University leading the way.

Having said that, current accepted way of rendering treatment is based on evidence based research and randomized clinical trials are considered to be at the summit of evidence. But, doubt lingers in my mind if Ayurveda which is individualistic in approach will yield the necessary meaningful data for modern medicine. Rightly so, Indian government has adopted an integrated approach for treating patients on individual basis. Until further methods are available to rigorously test the efficacy of medicines, to preserve its utility, Ayurveda sooner or later will need to come under scrutiny of current accepted standards and methods which rely heavily on data from randomized multi-centered clinical trials and systematic reviews. But, one proven case of efficacy of ayurvedic medicine is "Neeri" which has been accepted as an adjunct to haemodialysis.

The rigor of any system of medicine or scientific knowledge stands only with constant and continuous scrutiny and criticism. Why should we turn our face against scientific criticism. It will only help us to grow

@ YOGESH CHANDRA TRIPATHI,

Respected sir,

I understand and appreciate your kind concern towards Ayurveda and I strongly support pharmacognostical research and revalidation both for proper drug identification, safety and toxicity.

The thing m telling is about pharmacology.

One drug /formulation works differently in different disorders with different vehicle and different administration routes and times. Ayurveda posology varies person to person (purushm purushm vikshya). The Haritaki which performs anuloman action in a mridu koshtha aatura may not work as the same in a krura koshtha aatura. Though it's anuloman work had been established.

In modern pharmacology there are standardized method of research and rendomized control and trial group studies, cohorts and longitudinal studies. In Ayurveda tht studies may bias with the principles.

For the health care concern, science has already progressed the pick level, where nobody is healthy in this era.

For the health purpose only,

AYURVEDA DOES NOT REQUIRE GLOBALIZATION,

BUT GLOBE ACTUALLY REQUIRES AYURVEDIZATION.

More than amendments in principles of health sciences have been done. It's time to make amendments in globe instead of health sciences/life science.

I thank you all for a wonderful discussion. I am an orthodontist working a Govt Dental school and I wish to prescribe some beneficial ayurvedic alternatives for my patients especially for preventing biofilm adherence leading to candida and staph colonization and also for alleviating pain, but I have to go through a stringent ethical clearance , and also I wish to seek the guidance of stalwarts who may be able to collaborate as standardization of formulations for gel or mouthwash form is essential and I foresee it as a good alternative for patients without side effects.

I would be grateful if any of you can guide me on this.

This cannot be answer simply as Yes or No, as the question goes as modern scientific validation, what is modern a decade ago is obsolete today, earlier efforts were going on to validation to then-modern scientific tools, like Agni with some intestinal enzymes and all, today the new modern is gut microbiota, tomorrow it might be something else. Whereas Ayurveda is a whole different science with unique fundamentals which cannot be understood by present modern pharmacology. Though gradually it is getting appreciated.

On the other hand as earlier pointed out in the discussion, drug quality, safety may be studied, in both Ayurveda and modern aspect, as the soil is contaminated these days, even water is heavily contaminated with modern-day pharmacological drugs like antibiotics, and even heavy metals like lead, which need to be checked.

But establishing non-effectiveness based on modern diagnostic approach taking an alkaloid or even whole herb is not justified.

Though a lot of work is needed in bringing out authentic Ayurveda to the world, standardisation of Vaidya is one of them and studying Ayurveda as such, based on its fundamentals, diagnosis and management.

It is not wise to engage in an effort to compare Ayurvedic medicines with modern medicines. No need of scientific scrutiny and validation. Probably that would be an effort to convert Ayurvedic medicines to modern (Allopathic medicines). It is better to leave it as it is.

I support Ayurveda and other old medicinal systems in different parts of world and agree with @Harasit Kumar Paul. Old and modern medicinal systems can be compared as Newton's laws of motion and Einstein's theory of relativity. Old time Ayurveda was also tested and experiment-based

Ayurveda is indeed ancient and contains observations based on other philosophical foundations. The exciting question is not the comparison with the science of allopathy, but the internal functional relationships that have been described in Ayurveda.

These functional relationships help us better understand life and disease processes than analytical science.

Yes, ayurvedic medicines need modern scientific scrutiny and validation.

I completely support with @ Arvind Singh

Sir, First of all, I agree, with this motion that yes Ayurveda needs some validation ..now the reason I will be explaining afterwards ...The recent advances in the field of Ayurveda have motivated many researchers to look at the basic ailments used to explore the Ayurvedic field of research. As we know, now-a-days research is the prime need of contemporary Ayurveda. Ayurveda needs research designed to test and validate its fundamental concepts as well as its management approach. In this context, if Ayurveda is to be truly explored and validated in all its aspects, scientific inputs should confirm its principles and philosophy. Multiple researches have been done on Ayurvedic text regarding its textual concept, but in today scenario it is difficult to prove any concept without being validate. So, development of parameters to assess Panchmahabhoota, Tridosha, Agni, Dhatu, Ojas, Srotas, Ama, gunas, Shatkriyakala, Samprapti, Prakriti etc on a scientific basis is a need of time. For this purpose Ayurveda researchers should do their researches in collaboration with modern science. what ayurveda need mainly some examples of Modern parametres which can be used in recent advancement of Ayurvedic researches...@Yogesh Chandra Tripathi

.I think ayurvedic medicines need validation and standardisation.They already have some specific parameters which already mention there but due to less knowledge all the medicines are either adultrated or improper process either they are incomplete Or some time they are less effwctive due to improper process.Ayurveda itself a complete branch or ocean of knowledge but where are we .All the knowldges of our anciest people are vanish only the improper knowledge of scholars vanish the whole era.So there is need of proper reserch in field of ayurveda.So vailidation and standardisation is not need but necessary for all ayurvedic medicines

NO

To my knowledge since independence, we are Integrating Ayurveda with Allopathic System. we are not able to feel the same sense of pride. Fundamental science of both the system is different. Ayurveda fundamentals describe Nidana parivarjana ( Sanni Krista & Viprakrista), a conglomeration of body tissues with doshas, Vikara sammuthana of Dosa, Dhatu; Vikara Prakriti of Dosa & Dhatu, Vikara adhisthana, Prakriti vighata, Prakriti sthapana, etc. Kayagni, Jatharagni, dhatwagni, Mahabhutagni all have a role in the pharmacological action of any drug. Establish the protocol of Ayurveda fundamentals with the modern counterpart for evidence. But interpreting modern protocols with Ayurveda fundamentals will make more gap in our science. Now we are doing our treatment or research on looking at the Lakhyanika chikistha, Hetu viparita chikistha, Vyadhi viparita chikistha. Dhatu Samya chikistha is the ultimate aim of Ayurveda. For Dhatu Samya; 24 tatwas ( Asta Prakriti & Sodasa Vikara ) must be in samya condition. So How much success we will get after integration?

Should be studied and evalvated

The problem of the relationship between Ayurveda and conventional health science is deeper and more complex than whether we use conventional research methods. The main difference is the interpretation of the disease, the health, the conclusions that can be drawn from it, the possibilities of intervention. Modern, conventional health science is completely under the influence of biomedicine (biochemical medicine), its scientific and research methods are also shaped by the needs of this approach. Non-conventional medicine (Ayurveda) needs to develop its own modern research methodology. The evidence-based approach should not be accepted because it was not developed for us. The evidence-based method is one of the reform trends that have emerged in the last 50 years to facilitate paradigm shift (health models, translational medicine, personalized medicine, functional medicine, P4, non-pharmacological intervention, EVB, integrative medicine). It should be noted that conventional medicine is also about to change, and the approach to Ayurveda can help a lot in the inevitable paradigm shift.

Yes indeed so . https://www.researchgate.net/post/Herbs-medicinal_use

Yes. But cautiously. Taking consideration of the qualitative aspects in Ayurveda and integrating them with modern techniques.

Yes. Ayurveda thinks in a networked system of connection, the modern medical science in causal system.

The Ayurvedic medicines should be screen properly to identify the phytochemicals responsible for the biological profile.

Regard

Yes, need for standardization

Ayurveda has got its own scientific temper and basis. It should be the mainstay of the system for its assessment. Modern scientific methods may be used for better understanding of the concepts rather than using them for scrutiny or validation. Likewise we cannot scrutinize or validate modern medicine with Ayurveda. Both streams are best in their own ways. But, interdisciplinary researches must be always welcome to better understand the unknown

It is already started by the Indian government, Ayurvedic Pharmacopeia of India is made standardization of many herbs used in ayurvedic formulations. Lots of work done at the international level too and many standard guidelines written in US Herbal Pharmacopeia, European Pharmacopeia and British Pharmcopeia.

Yes of course the experiment must be carried out to understand the deep knowledge of ayurved. I think it should be now done on each small levels.

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