The infection viral dose is currently estimated at 100 virions. The amount of a prophylactic antiviral blocker at this stage would theoretically then be very low. L-quinine may be more potent and effective than low dose hydroxychloroquine, considering the natural source of l-quinine contains the pure desired enantiomer, versus HCQ is synthetic and composed of four enantiomers that probably competitively inhibit the binding of the desired enantiomer. Thus 20mg (one glass of tonic water) may have more biological activity than 100mg of HCQ. Side-effects of 20mg appear to be nil to nonexistent, as million of people have imbibed this over the centuries. Obviously, one should get their physicians' advice on this. Another point is that there are billions of people on this who do not have readily available medical access, but they do have access to tonic water, or may already use it to prevent other viral and protozoal infections. Millions of people already do this chronically for prophylaxis, and the risk is low. For a placebo controlled double blind study to be done, this could take years, and is unlikely to be done because there is no large amount of money to be made anyway. Tonic water is a dollar a bottle and lasts for a week at this dose. Risk: Nil (if not contraindicated). Benefit: Possibly thaumaturgic!
It was thaumaturgic for centuries for the prevention and treatment for malaria; and other parasitic and viral infections more recently. For those whole food people, vegans, etc., it is non-GMO, vegan, natural and pure; and inexpensive! My friends all like the taste too. Again, I am referring to a refreshment while we are hunkered in place; not a treatment when sick. This is while we are waiting for the antibody test to see if we are immune, or ultimately a vaccine to make us immune.
I do have a question, that requires an immunologist to answer. If one uses an antiviral preventatively, and is exposed to the virus, with the chemical preventing acute infectious symptoms; would that person then be immune to the virus in 14 days. I realize that every virus and response is different, and needs to be elucidated, but an estimate would be satisfactory. We will all have to be tested for our antibody response anyway, before we come out, if before the vaccine. Obviously, age and premorbid conditions will be important in the order of this.
Dear Mr Gary Josep
In my opinion, in addition to vaccines to treat the corona virus pandemic, quinine can also be used to increase antibodies. I often also take quinine pills for prevention if going to work to a location that has a lot of malaria. During this time also and successfully not attacked by malaria
Regards
Yes, at least from a biochemistry point of view for prophylaxis, I think that natural l-quinine is better than synthetic, four enantiomer HCQ. 75% of the commercial product is stereoisomeric competitive inhibitor, versus 0% from l-quinine the natural product. This may be why malaria responds to l-quinine, but develops resistance to racemic HCQ. Much less l-quinine is required, so fewer side effects. In our experience, 20 mg of l-quinine has better prophylactic antiviral effect than 100 mg of racemic HCQ. (synthetic with 4 enantiomers, one effective and 3 competitive inhibitors).(This is anecdotal and theoretical information at present)
There are over 500 plant derived compounds that are being studied for antiviral properties, including against SARS-CoV-2. I t would take a book to described them all. I will only mention a few here. Many others can be searched on the web. First, natural quinine is plant derived, works very well as an antiparasitic, and is the drug of choice when hydroxychloroquine resistant malaria is present. But it is also antiviral, and eradicates the SARS-Cov-2 in vitro experiments. It has been used successfully anecdotally prophylactically, but there are no published double-blind placebo controlled clinical human experiments yet. Then there is resveratrol, again shown to kill SARS-Cov-2 and other coronaviruses in vitro, but not yet published in a well controlled double-blind placebo human clinical study. Nothing is accepted until this gold-standard is met. Coincidentally, resveratrol is used in its natural state (grape-crush) to treat another virus in hogs, "pseudorabies" as the usual "drug of choice." Pseudorabies virus is a candidate for the 'attenuated' carrier virus for a potential SARS-CoV-2 vaccine. The third I will mention, is the chemicals in "black tea." The extract has been shown to eradicate SARS-CoV-2 in vitro, probably due to n-methyl xanthines it contains. Again, no 'gold-standard' studies have been published on this yet. I will point out that currently these should not be considered as treatments or cures, with the information so far showing that they may have some prophylactic properties that may be found to be useful after further clinical study. This is suggested by some anecdotal information to date. There are no studies as to the dose required in the 'gold standard.' A similar statement could be made for hundreds of other plant derived antiviral chemicals. (An anecdote as to the dose question is this: 65% ethanol also kills the SARS-CoV-2; but the amount needed to kill it in a persons body would probably kill the person. So the dose is important in this discussion) July 30, 2020; Gary Ordog, MD.
Okay, for a lesson on anecdotal studies. Where I am staying, in April 2020 there was the first peak of the Pandemic locally, many sick with COVID-19 and many deaths, especially in the long-term care and nursing homes. When the virus first arrived here, and an emergency was declared by the President, I started using full PPE, and following all of the Public Health suggestions. I worked in Health Care for over 40 years, and dealt with infectious disease on a daily basis. So I personally thought I knew how to take care of it. I personally researched and reviewed all I could find on the Coronavirus, plus I read all of the journal articles on COVID-19 the day they were put on line. I determined that a good candidate for at least prevention, would be a combination of natural antiviral ingredients that I had available. The top one was a chemical that I knew very well, and knew that it had been safely used for hundreds of years, quinine. It was readily available as "tonic water" in a safe and low dose, that may be all that is needed to prevent the viral infection. I also knew, as a medical toxicologist, that it can be toxic, being a classic QTc prolongator, and many years ago it was used as a abortifacient, but currently was used widely as an immune suppressant for autoimmune diseases, and still generally regarded as safe. I also tested and saw that it could easily kill corona virus in vitro and in plants. (I also investigated others, such as resveratrol, lectins and leptins.) This was before there was any mention of HCQ or CQ by anyone else on line or in the news. I also knew, from a degree in Biochemistry that quinine was a natural product of a single correct stereoisomer, so I felt it was at least one factor (2^n) better than the synthetic HCQ and CQ that had numerous competitive inhibitors in the form of incorrect stereoisomers. I told all my friends, relatives to take a glass (20mg) a day, maybe it would help prevent the virus. I stocked up on tonic water and gave it out to people who needed it. We added foods rich in resveratrol, lectins and leptins, and the n-methylxanthines (tea, coffee, chocolate). so, the anecdotal study is that I don't know anyone personally who has been infected with the SARS-CoV-2. One of my aunts lives in a long-term care facility, where all the other 17 patients on her floor, and 4 staff members died of COVID-19, but she didn't even get the sniffles. So, anecdotal, and in this medical world it probably means nothing, it would never be published, except in a social media type report such as this. (Obviously, this small dose was not recommended to people who had contraindications, such as pregnancy or QTc prolongation, etc. The usual disclaimer, this has not been evaluated by the FDA, and is not promoted to treat any disease; only as a dietary supplement) I pray that our "luck" holds out until the good vaccine is delivered here. Thank you. August 09, 2020 Gary Ordog, MD.
September 20, 2020 Update: Still no one that I know, including all my relatives, have had COVID-19 or even tested positive for mRNA SARS-CoV-2. As far as I know, they are still prophylaxing with l-quinine, although the individual compliance may be decreasing. I , for one noticed some GI cramping from just 6 oz. per day of commercial toxic water. I did switch to resveratrol in an approximately equal prophylactic dose. No illness so far and negative mRNAs. (ps Is prophylaxing the proper verb for prophylaxis; as my spellchecker doesn't like it; oh well perhaps it can be my latest neologism!?)(pps Yes resveratrol is antiviral, used to treat swine pseudorabies, for one, and anecdotal in vitro testing showed it did kill the coronavirus. My theory is that it may work prophylactically, as does quinine, and that the prophylactic dose should be considerably less than the actual therapeutic dose. So the amounts of either that I am talking about here in the few milligram ranges may in fact be enough to be prophylactic for the SARS-CoV-2 in casual societal contacts with potentially infected people. Again, all of this is as of yet, unpublished, but is being studied in several hundred people over the past eight months with no cases of COVID-19 or positive mRNA tests, so far. Again, all this is anecdotal, and should not be relied upon for treatment to make all of the lawyers happy.)(ppps When this whole Pandemic is over, I will go back to all of the people involved and get exact statements as to compliance, etc. possibly for a write-up?)
Consider this cartoon published in Lancet, from 1889 regarding influenza at that time. It depicts a patient being led by a physician, surrounded by politicians. I would like you to note the figure on the bottom left holding a sign saying "quinine!" Wow, things don't change much. Gary Joseph Ordog, MD; January 21, 2021.
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