Technical question about the possibility of replacing construction fine aggregate by river sand or desert sand...?
I do not know, but it is an interesting query ....................following
Lamia Al-Naama ... thanks for answering.. I will share the final answer to you...
that for sure depend on the properties of fine aggregate used.. in general both type of sad you mentioned her can not satisfy the requirements... that's my opinion
Definitively, it's a bad idea taking River Sands because most surely you destroy natural surroundings and may endanger a source of potable waters or even change country's geography (moving deltas). I'm not that sure about Desert Sands, but I think clay is a much better construction material, that can be mixed up with green material, for excellent isolation.
Dear Ayad Ali M. .. Thanks for answering.. with respect to your opinion..
Dear Fred Romano .. .Thanks for answering..
based on the term" fine aggregate".. the question start.. and both river sand and desert sand are consider somewhat a fine aggregate... So why we don't used in construction...
and we may need to ask,.. can we replace fine aggregate with clay..?
With fine aggregate, you do concrete, which isn't the only way to build. Clay construction have millennial background. But it is true it's two different philosophies of building.
Desert sand and river sand can be used in concrete, the using will depend on its particle size distribution, whether it falls in the grading limits for sand or not. Also the sand should be tested for the presence of both organic and inorganic impurities.
In Nigeria, I know people use river sand for construction but I am not aware of desert sand. Following
Interesting question, hope Construction engineer answer us to this question.
As per my information in geotechnical the river sand cab be used. But the desert sand may be contain high percent of salt as well as its very fine.
With eespect
River sand is best because it has been washed. Desert sand can be washed and graded for use in concrete, but is more difficult to use.
Any sand used in the concrete mix shall be within certain sand specifications in terms of gradient and free of salts, sulphates, clay materials and impurities. Both are used but prefer desert sand of coarse type. In Iraq, river sand is used for its availability.
You can use any sand or gravel for construction. If its useable for special purposes it depends on its grain-sizes and their composition, stone type and surface structure.
Useable compositions for concrete, see https://www.betontechnische-daten.de/de/2-7-1-kornzusammensetzung-sieblinien (in German) and the stability of the grains.
If you want to use the sand for eathworks, you have to mind the U-Value of the sand. U=d60/d10 (d60 and d10 are the grain sizes in the sieve-line at 10% and 60%) The U-Ratio must be between 3 and 6 for compression.
sand from the desert (especially from dunes) are having only unique small samesized grains (U
Desert sand can't be used for construction because it is mostly transported by wind, cyclones and hurricane's because of its size. Desert sand has the size of
We can used river sand and it possesses arounded shap all most , that reduse the strength of concrete, but we need to know the grade of it. For desert sand, it possesses fine grade and alot of salts. If we can reduse the salts we can used.
Rana Burhan Alshahwany .. thanks for answering and explaining ..
Dear Segun Michael Abegunde .. Thanks for answering.. and... for sharing Information..
Dear Ismail Younis Al-Hadeedy .. thanks for your comment.. I will share the final answer to you..
The particle of the desert sand mostly has spherical form. It is bad for the concrete. As result it turns out less strong. As I know, there are studies exists on this topic. Moreover, I heard that sand is deliberately imported into the desert (Asuan...), since the local one is unsuitable for a many building tasks. But the best criterion of the truth is a practice. You can take piece and test. I do not think that standard tests are very expensive.
i think these researchs have the answer
Research Evaluation of sea sand and river sand properties and their comparison
http://www.indjst.org/index.php/indjst/article/viewFile/89400/68078
https://ijisrt.com/use-of-sea-sand-in-partial-replacement-of-river-sand-in-concrete-for-construction
River sand particles are very fine if compared with sand.Thus,need large amounts of cement.Sand of Desert contains harmful salts.
The river sand is the best from view of clean and without or with little amount of harmful materials like salts or sulphate or organic material, however, it should be checked the grain size. On the other hand, the desert sand mostly have high percent of salts especially the gypsum.
Best choice is of course the river sand but harmful for the environment .
Ola Adel Qasim .. thanks for answering.. and for the reference ...
It depends on the purpose. For concrete and mortar mixes, there are requirements regarding the size of the grains, the mineralogical composition, soundness, absence of deletereous and organic materials, absence of salt, etc. The usual sources of sand are quarried (crushed) sand and river sands. Crushed sands are frequently too coarse to be used alone and need to be blended with natural sands. River sands may be coarse, medium or fine sands: coarse to medium sands may be used alone, while fine sands may need to be blended with coarser sands (typically: crushed sand). I personally have no experience with desert sands, but think that they can be used mixed together with coarser sands (desert sands are extremely fine); the rounded shape of the particles may help to improve the workability. Since some time -and increasingly in the future- alternative sources including recycled materials have come to attention. In any case, whatever the source of the sand be, it will have to be processed (washed, screened, blended, etc.) to meet the requirements of the particular use it is intended for.
River sand can be used and it is best for the construction as in the older days the river sand is used that is also the one reason the old monuments are long lasting. And coming to the desert sand cannot Be used as it is very finner so it cannot be binded in the concrete.
conduction necessary laboratory tests for each location will do a lot of good, river sand is generally good.
La arena del rio es muy buena para la dosificación del concreto a resistencias requeridas. Al ser transportada desde los sedimentos mas altos a causa de la erosiones del sustrato de la capa superficial movidos por el agua hacer que el tenga un acabado de canto rodado. En este aspecto es un agregado natural que va directo a la construcción, ya que en otros casos los agregados son triturados haciéndolos con acabados mas angulares, según requerimientos de la obra.
Por otro lado la arena del desierto puede ser factible a la construcción previo a una análisis granulométrico en laboratorio y según las especificaciones técnicas de resistencia del concreto a conseguir.
The sand of the river is very good for the dosage of the concrete to required resistances. When transported from higher sediments due to the erosion of the surface layer substrate moved by the water, it has a boulder finish. In this aspect it is a natural aggregate that goes directly to the construction, since in other cases the aggregates are crushed making them with more angular finishes, according to the requirements of the work.
On the other hand, desert sand may be feasible for construction prior to a granulometric analysis in the laboratory and according to the technical specifications of the concrete resistance to be achieved.
Yes, it is possible to use river sand or desert sand in the construction work condition of passing tests of salts and organic and clay materials, replacing it with a percentage of fine aggregates for use as a filler.
The shape, size, clay content and additive property of those sand were obligatory to use as raw material in building construction with specification they fulfill. But, If they full fill the required criteria, mostly the availability of the well qualified sand by itself define govern the the use of sand.
River sand can be used for construction. It is widely used for construction in Africa and some parts of Asia. Especially sand mined from the bottom of freshwater. However it has to pass the required chemical and physical test. Shell content, Chloride, Sulphate, PSD and other relevant quality tests. Same as Desert sand.
River sand is more appropriate for constructions due to small size of grains. Desert sand may be used only in the form of shell stone
Unqualfied comments:
With regards to this very interesting question, definitioins and conventions play a role too. Sand from one place is not a sand at another, say, for somehow we all confront sand, caly and silt grade problem, with experience.
Sometime desert sand is sand and beach sand is not. Even reiver sand may not be sand and desert sand might be sand.
Given the existing methods/standards of making slurries/mixes etc. we are by and large constrained by portland cement type , say "binders and bonds" characteristics.
Further the aspects hydration, thermodynamic, chemical bonding, surface energy require us to use white or clean sand which is proverbially called river sand.
However, for "massive" masonary work desert sand could or should be preferred, as it provides good consistency and run.
( Walking on sand is a good test to have a personalized standardization regardless of how you define)
Yes you can use both. But you have to consider the water absorption behaviour between the two sand that you have mentioned. They may have different absorption properties. River sand will yield better mechanical properties
Yes you can use it as fillers only since its frictional properties is less than crushed aggregate.
River sand is suitable because of its gradation and presence of silt content is less than 15%. Even we can use the desert sand if it is having satisfying gradation as well limited silt content. Also the % of Silica content matters.
River sand is use any construction.before construction it should be washed .they having sufficient good properties .
Desert sand grains are finer and smoother so their surface chemistry would not be able to offer sufficient number of multi-directional chemical linkages. If their grain size is too small, the slurry slip and the concrete would have poor strength. Desert sands possess an open structure, and there is little interlock between sand grains. If this sand is kept dry, these bonding bridges provide considerable bearing strength. But if the sand becomes wet, the bridges soften and when overloaded, the bridges break and collapse.
You can use both as replacement (partial or total). I suggest you do chemical characterization and knowing this information you can attribute at chemcial composition any possible change in the behavior of concrete (fresh mix or hard).
I hope helped you. Regards.
Good question Dr. Hussam Ali Mohammed, learning new things
Here in the southern part of Nigeria, river sand is the predominant fine aggregate used in making concrete. But it is necessary to carry out a sieve analysis to determine the particle size distribution. This affects the workability of the fresh concrete. The finer the aggregate the more workable the concrete. Washing of the river sand may be required when it contains dirts and clay.
River sand is best, but in a situation where river sand is not available desert sand should do it.
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